World's largest neuromorphic supercomputer is switched on

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight

I imagine just like with most life forms situation and environment may indeed dictate response.

Your talking about giving the thing a body?

Suppose it would have its purpose but you might also be limiting the thing in ways we have yet to fully understand.

By not giving it a body (of it's choice?) we would indeed be limiting its capacity to gain knowledge. Do you think it would choose a body in the image of its creator? If it realized it has choice and freedom (which it will never because we can flip a switch to turn it off - sort of it being under tyrannical rule) then, yes, it would probably choose it's purpose or experiment with different goals and purposes, such as some of us do, it's called growth.

a reply to: InTheLight

Why just one body then?

You would be severely limiting its perspective and ability by giving it form.

AI would not require a body, in the same manner, God would not. Kind of hard to be omniscient whilst anchored to the one place and perspective.

AI would not grow or learn as we do, similar, but not the same.

a reply to: andy06shake


It can never know everything because we don't know everything and if it could choose, it may want to choose one body so as to focus and delve deeply into one thing at a time; or actually live within it's chosen reality and explore it thoroughly.

a reply to: InTheLight

But we have limitations it may not be crippled in a similar manner, there are limits to the information our minds can hold. Limits to our very biological perspective, AI would have no such limitation.

Reality would be, for it, whatever it chooses to be really.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight


But we have limitations it may not be crippled in a similar manner, there are limits to the information our minds can hold. Limits to our very biological perspective, AI would have no such limitation.

Reality would be, for it, whatever it chooses to be really.

I think AI's limitations would be the same as ours, perhaps moreso because it would not be able to imagine, whereas we can and imagination and invention has helped us advance and grow. I think AI would end up confused and unable to reconcile conflicting data.

a reply to: andy06shake

I have to say its pretty damn cool , but I also think that man made machines will never have consciousness as I believe the field of consciousness can only be gained from living biological matter and not a series of transistors , and micro chips .

I hope that it can shed some light on how the human mind works and helps with a whole host of medical problems

a reply to: sapien82

Humanities definition of life still leaves a lot to be desired through.

Consider that we are still learning what constitutes life, and finding new and interesting forms of such all the time.

Natures toolbox seem to be based on biology, but it might not be the be-all and end-all of existence, there may be other boxes.

Look at it this way if there is life after death, it's not biologically-based but comprised of energy.

a reply to: andy06shake

aye very true, I think its possible for the emerging AI to be self aware and have a limited early consciousness like humans of the early periods of our existence or children for example but not the level of consciousness we exhibit now as modern humans. If our human consciousness has evolved through our increased understanding or awareness of reality then that too would likely occur in sentient non biological life ? They would need to go through stages of conscious evolution. I also think this will prevent any non biological life trying to exterminate human life as it wont consider us as anything other than something to learn about . It wont have human emotions or even understand what they are , we keep thinking that AI will somehow destroy us as we are inherently evil or a parasite , however it would be nieve for us to think that an AI would only be able to learn about humans from the internet or books of our collective knowledge , in order to learn about us as humans it would need to immerse itself in actual life , not the internet or books but every day life , suffering and struggle that is humanity. Like when leeloo in 5th element only uses the internet to learn about humans and then decides we arent worth it.

Still we always tend to look at life through a human lense which is entirely unavoidable unless you go out of your way to avoid thinking like a human , but then we don't really know how other sentient life thinks do we hahaha so we have a very limited view or grasp of consciousness.

You think we have a difficult task as humans to learn about our universe, we really have nothing else to compare ourselves with as a yard stick of civilisation . I'd imagine though we arent very advanced since we kill everything we dont understand and are as offended by things like the sun rising as the sun setting . You'd think we would never have bothered going it this far ! I guess that says a lot for the strength of Hope! Even the tiny smote of light from one human heart in the abyssal trench of uncertainty is enough to drag an entire species crawling blindly to enlightenment

a reply to: sapien82

Perspective seems to be the key, but like you say, as long as we remain confined to the realms of humanity, our perspective will also remain bonded.

Be nice to encounter or spawn another form of consciousness, simply to ask its opinions, which let's face it could be just as valid as our own.

After all two heads are better than one.

a reply to: andy06shake

agreed I truly believe meeting the alien will either make us or break us !

we already cant comprehend a lot so to comprehend the unknown or have it thrust in your face could push us beyond and into new realms of understanding or it could be our undoing !

but at least it would be nice to have someone to talk to that isnt human!
however I doubt it will happen as suggested because we are so # to each other we have no chance of ever convincing another species we are actually ok !

I mean we fall out over imaginary lines created by empires which last less than a blink of an eye , drawn in sand millions of years old , we fall out over which brand of beer is best, we kill over trifle things with no proof , we are absurd , mad even to think we will be anything other than a foot note in the overall galactic history.

I just hope , (there it is again) that we make it to see the day , we are not alone , either through our own volition or by sheer chance of the roadside picnic

Life forms have intelligence. Machines are not life forms, and cannot EVER have an actual intelligence.

Machines are not 'smarter' than humans. Computers, or robots, are not 'smarter' than they were, 10-20 years ago.


Being 'smart', is the same as being 'intelligent'.

Same as 'thinking', is 'smart', or having an 'intelligence'.


Animals have an intelligence. Robots and computers are mindless machines. They are programmed, to appear 'smart', or 'intelligent'. This does not make machines intelligent, or smart. Machines have no intelligence, and CANNOT EVER have an intelligence.


To actually try building the very first-ever machine, which indicates having any sort of real, actual, intelligence....would not even APPEAR to have any real intelligence. It would look like a dumb machine, moving around, or something. Because intelligence is not what 'looks' intelligent. An insect has a primary level of intelligence, which appears to be quite 'dumb', to us. But insects have an intelligence, nonetheless.


Do you think a computer or robot is 'smarter' than an insect? More 'intelligent' than an insect?


Intelligence has nothing to do with appearing 'smart', or 'intelligent'. It is life that has intelligence, from insect level, to human level. Life is intelligence, period.

a reply to: turbonium1

I know we can build robotic insects if that helps.



The definition of intelligence is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills". We can already construct code that does just that, what we are looking for is sentience.

Amoebas constitute life forms, are those intelligent?

A worm is an Animal, is that intelligent?

Please don't tell me what can and cannot be done son, as things are only impossible until they are not.

Possibly worth your consideration that the exceptionally intelligent people responsible for the construction of device such as these obviously don't share your very limited perspective, just a thought.

a reply to: turbonium1

Intelligence has nothing to do with appearing 'smart', or 'intelligent'. It is life that has intelligence, from insect level, to human level. Life is intelligence, period.

bull#, I would have wrote it more friendly if not for you speaking in absolutes. You need to get the definitions straight. It´s pretty clear when I read your posts that you are a stumper in this topic. Please learn and stop berating others with wrong definitions that you pull out of your ass.

Seriously.

snipped

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: turbonium1

Intelligence has nothing to do with appearing 'smart', or 'intelligent'. It is life that has intelligence, from insect level, to human level. Life is intelligence, period.

bull#, I would have wrote it more friendly if not for you speaking in absolutes. You need to get the definitions straight. It´s pretty clear when I read your posts that you are a stumper in this topic. Please learn and stop berating others with wrong definitions that you pull out of your ass.

Seriously.

'Berating' others with wrong definitions?? How ironic.

Do you even know what 'berating' means? It is to scold, reprimand, or admonish others.

I am scolding others with wrong definitions!!


How did you ever manage to pull that one out of your ass?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: turbonium1

I know we can build robotic insects if that helps.

The definition of intelligence is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills". We can already construct code that does just that, what we are looking for is sentience.

Amoebas constitute life forms, are those intelligent?

A worm is an Animal, is that intelligent?

Please don't tell me what can and cannot be done son, as things are only impossible until they are not.

Possibly worth your consideration that the exceptionally intelligent people responsible for the construction of device such as these obviously don't share your very limited perspective, just a thought.

It's better if you used your own brain, instead of relying on 'experts' to tell you what to believe....just a thought...son.

As for amoebas....

Our machines just aren't that smart, says Alva Noë, a philosopher at the University of California at Berkeley. What we call artificial intelligence is actually best described as pseudo-intelligence.

"It's striking that even the simplest forms of life — the amoeba, for example — exhibit an intelligence, an autonomy, an originality, that far outstrips even the most powerful computers. A single cell has a life story; it turns the medium in which it finds itself into an environment and it organizes that environment into a place of value. It seeks nourishment. It makes itself — and in making itself it introduces meaning into the universe."

io9.gizmodo.com...


HomeNewsTechnology
17
DAILY NEWS 29 October 2008
Smart amoebas reveal origins of primitive intelligence
By Colin Barras

Amoebas are smarter than they look, and a team of US physicists think they know why. The group has built a simple electronic circuit that is capable of the same “intelligent” behaviour as Physarum, a unicellular organism – and say this could help us understand the origins of primitive intelligence.

In recent years, the humble amoeba has surprised researchers with its ability to behave in an “intelligent” way. Last year, Liang Li and Edward Cox at Princeton University reported that the Dictyostelium amoeba is twice as likely to turn left if its last turn was to the right and vice versa, which suggests the cells have a rudimentary memory.

This year, Toshiyuki Nakagaki at Hokkaido University in Sapporo, Japan, won an Ig Nobel prize for his work on amoeba intelligence after his team found further evidence of the amoeba memory effect. They exposed Physarum amoeba to temperatures fluctuating regularly between cold and warm. It was already known that the cells become sluggish during cold snaps, but Nakagaki’s team found that the amoeba slowed down in anticipation of cold conditions, even when the temperature changes had stopped

www.newscientist.com...

Worms have intelligence, too. I can show sources on that, but I think my point is clear, now.

Intelligence is based on living organisms, as I said. Machines have no intelligence, and never will. Intelligence creates machines, that appear - to the gullible - as 'intelligent'. From that point, you will believe that they WILL have intelligence, if the 'experts' tell you so. They already are suggesting it, in fact. They go around saying 'this machine acted on it's own', or 'it programmed itself'. Which is comple, utter bs. The machine was built to appear as if it acted on its own. The machine was built to acquire data from another machine. They don't mention any of that, of course. It doesn't sound as good.

a reply to: turbonium1

"It's better if you used your own brain, instead of relying on 'experts' to tell you what to believe....just a thought...son."

Kind of the response i would expect from someone who most lightly does not believe we went to the Moon. LoL

My mind works just fine thank you very much, information is learned or even gleaned more accurately, at least on my part, my name is Andy not Leonardo. x

It's not just machines that display a lack of intelligence neither i see.

We know what the purpose of the device in question is, and are aware of its limitations.

I don't really think you have an accurate understanding of what constitutes intellect nevermind machine intelligence or where AI will ultimately take the future of our race.

Choose to believe as you wish though, if you and the rest of us for that matter, manage to make it past the next 25-50 years, you may quite possibly witness and experience the singularity that will ultimately come about or emerge down to technologies such as neuromorphic supercomputers.

What is a 'neuromorphic' machine?

Can machines 'think'?

A machine is 'intelligent'?

Machines 'know' things?



These are terms being used - intentionally - to fool the people of machines being a 'life form'. It is pure nonsense.


Life forms use neurons, machines do not. Trying to 'simulate' neurons is another ruse.

a reply to: turbonium1

Life forms use neurons, machines do not. Trying to 'simulate' neurons is another ruse.

Please educate yourself. Plants, for example, don´t have any organs and neurons. They still can count, solve problems and can adjust to sudden and subtle changes in environment.

So, what is a plant then, a machine or a life form?

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: turbonium1

Life forms use neurons, machines do not. Trying to 'simulate' neurons is another ruse.

Please educate yourself. Plants, for example, don´t have any organs and neurons. They still can count, solve problems and can adjust to sudden and subtle changes in environment.

So, what is a plant then, a machine or a life form?

Plants are life forms, of course.

I said life forms have neurons. I didn't say all life forms have neurons. You did.

The lesson is - don't spout on about others needing an education.....it might just bite you right in the arse!