Trump plans to sign executive order curbing birthright citizenship: report

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's very clear what Trump is doing unless you wish to believe and propagate fake news.

Yes, it's clear. Trump wants to fundamentally change the opening line of the 14th Amendment.

Sounds more to me like he simply wants to recognize and enforce the caveats of the second line.

a reply to: underpass61

Sounds more to me like he simply wants to recognize and enforce the caveats of the second line.

Sounds to me like that caveat is cleared up with this quote:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

Foreigners, aliens, who belong to families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States are excluded. But all other class of alien people, like visitors, workers, refugees, asylum seekers, people under temporary protection and exile, and undocumented aliens.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Yes. And the Supreme court ruling on it found that ..

In it, the majority held that Wong Kim Ark’s parents were lawful, permanent residents

They specified lawful, which suggests being lawful was necessary.

The illegal immigrant class did not exist, so no that caveat does not clear it up as he was speaking of classes that existed at that time.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

No, in fact he doesn't. He wants the opening line to be adjudicated to determine it's meaning, as the only time it was the courts found the legal status to be important. How do we know it was important, it was part of the opinion.

In it, the majority held that Wong Kim Ark’s parents were lawful, permanent residents

There would be no point to say that if it did not matter or potentially matter.

a reply to: Aazadan

I love how you ignore my post showing nothing is being modified and say I know nothing is being modified but he is modifying it!

Nothing is being modified, nothing.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


If "illegal" immigrants weren't subject to the jurisdiction/authority of the US Government, they wouldn't be illegal.

If they were subject to it then they would not be here. They are preventing the government from exercising jurisdiction over them.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Nonsense. If they weren't subject to US jurisdiction, the they couldn't be arrested and charged with a crime. If they could prevent the US from exercising jurisdiction, they would have immunity from our laws, like foreign dignitaries do.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Nonsense. If they weren't subject to US jurisdiction, the they couldn't be arrested and charged with a crime. If they could prevent the US from exercising jurisdiction, they would have immunity from our laws, like foreign dignitaries do.

How is the US government exerting jurisdiction over someone they don't even know is here. There is no agreement. The person has not agreed to US Jurisdiction. The US has not agreed to have Jurisdiction over them.

It's like you saying you will be responsible for all children in your house. A pedo sneaks a kid into your house while you sleep, you have no clue they are there, he rapes the kid, and you are responsible even though you did not let them in or even know they were there. What jurisdiction are you exerting over them .. none.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

He wants the opening line to be adjudicated to determine it's meaning, as the only time it was the courts found the legal status to be important.

It doesn't matter how the court came to the conclusion that birth on US soil bestows citizenship on the child, and it has been the case with every immigrant, regardless of their class or status, ever since. No one has been denied citizenship under those circumstances which is why there is no SCOTUS ruling. Birth right citizenship is embedded in the Constitution.

Trumps another teleprompter unqualified tosser who doesn't know # from clay. That sums him up.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Except what the Supreme Court says DOES matter, what YOU say doesn't matter. How in the world do you think your opinion carried more weight than the Supreme Court?

a reply to: AthlonSavage

Sounds more like you since Trump is doing literally nothing other than having the Supreme Court make a ruling.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

How is the US government exerting jurisdiction over someone they don't even know is here.

That's what censuses are for. In 1866, when the 14th Amendment was ratified, they didn't have computer data bases.

There is no agreement. The person has not agreed to US Jurisdiction.

People are subject to jurisdiction, consent is not required.

It's like you saying you will be responsible for all children in your house. A pedo sneaks a kid into your house while you sleep, you have no clue they are there, he rapes the kid, and you are responsible even though you did not let them in or even know they were there. What jurisdiction are you exerting over them .. none.

Jesus Christ on a surfboard! That's not what I'm saying at all! How can you compare an undocumeted immigrant giving birth to a pedophile rapist?!


I'm saying that US soil birth rights are embedded in 14th Amendment. It would take a constitutional amendment to change that. It can't be done with an EO. Everyone within the boarder the US are subject to jurisdiction, authority and laws of the USA. The Supreme Court can't decide VISA holders' children are citzens but asylum seekers children are not. That defies the 14th Amendment.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Census doesn't tell the government Illegal Matt is living at X address for you to deport.

Knowledge a person exists is required.

Because in both cases you are unable to prevent what is going on.

And what you are saying is MEANINGLESS. Listen, I do not like this being done with an EO. It's very possible the SC will say sorry this is a wrong interpretation. Until that time, until the SC has ruled, your opinion is meaningless, as is Trump's.

Phouarr, in all honesty, i never ever thought
that i'd feel the slightest bit of .. "sympathy" (?)
for The Donald

Poor guy !

All day long, he's signing, signing, signing...
bills and orders, and .. horseradish sales to Venezwhaler
Trump signs off on a lot of things y'know

He should be a bit more carefull though,
his fabulous, expasive signature
takes a lot of effort

why don't his ardent supporters
Croudfund an offical "Trump Sig Rubberstamp" fund ?

It may help stave off an onset of RSI !!!
let's face it, he's knockin' on a bit ..

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Except what the Supreme Court says DOES matter, what YOU say doesn't matter. How in the world do you think your opinion carried more weight than the Supreme Court?

Don't get ahead of yourself and count your chickens before they've hatched.

The only way the Supreme Court will hear this case is if Trump tries to amend the 14th by signing an EO discriminating against immigrants, and then his administration gets sued. It'll get blocked by lower courts, and then SCOTUS will rule on the lower courts' ruling and its constitutionality.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Keep Telling yourself that for if this gets through then next will come the citizen rating.
You will need to keep that up and you will lose points if they find your internet history shows you embracing
anything other than main stream views. Chinas already advancing this program. Your next and if you don't think it cant
happen to you the go and look at history.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

No, immigrants will not be discriminated against. Illegal immigrants will be subject to the law. A likely liberal activist court will say it's bad because they follow a progressive agenda and not the Constitution, and then it will go to the SC.

I have no chickens or eggs. I have no idea how it will turn out. I don't like it being done by EO, I want Congress to act. But when I hear people saying Trump is changing the Constitution or saying he doesn't need to follow it I will call out those lies.

a reply to: AthlonSavage

Yawn. Sorry you sounded like a progressive talking bobblehead.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Nonsense. If they weren't subject to US jurisdiction, the they couldn't be arrested and charged with a crime. If they could prevent the US from exercising jurisdiction, they would have immunity from our laws, like foreign dignitaries do.

Make it a class 3 felony crossing the border then so we can extradite them back home.