It seems that Darwinism becoming outdated and obsolete.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Seriously?

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: dug88

based on the opinion of a religious organic chemist, therefore god did it.

Dr. Tour builds nano-machines. He understands more about prebiotic chemistry than most, but you want to write him off because of his faith.

What a disgusting attitude to have.

No i write him off because his theory requires believing in a made up being with zero proof. Also him making nano machines is not a reason to believe someone when they tell me a magic being exists. I believe that would be an appeal to authority which is a logical fallacy. Also good ad hominem attack. You're debate skills are quite impressive.

The Big Bang is literally a made up theory with zero proof and you believe that.

a reply to: xstealth

The Big Bang is literally a made up theory with zero proof and you believe that.

See, you've screwed up.

You don't seem to understand what a theory is, or what proof is.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

? They're one and the same thing. In the beginning was the cyanobacteria, it created oxygen allowing speciation, adaption and natural selection for more complex life forms.

You should watch the video that is at the start of the thread
It explains very clearly that "things" just don't happen without some engineering

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: xstealth

The Big Bang is literally a made up theory with zero proof and you believe that.

See, you've screwed up.

You don't seem to understand what a theory is, or what proof is.

I guess they never took an entry level BIO course. I dont think people realize how much information that we have gathered at the hands of scientists in the past 200 years. We can observe cell organelles! And even deeper. That is crazy.

We have observed evolution and have evidence to back it up.

Sure.. quantum mechanics may very well disprove it all. However, that is a point in understanding that the human mind may not be able to grasp. Concepting time/math/dimensions and sapce all in one. Then trying to apply that to our 3-d reality... Evolution is our best answer and scientists leave that open for question... Not sure why that bothers so many. Scientists want truth just as much as you guys.

If religion wants to be taken sersiously.. it needs to take science seriously... and evolve with it.

Anyway, sorry for using your post to rant ... haha

a reply to: blueman12

Like phage, all you have to do is show the repetable observable and testable evidence
Then you win everything
All creationists will surrender and aknowledge evolution is true

Go get at us, show us the science, concrete, go get them Rex

Ask Phage for help, he will, he has more than faith, he has theory

Put us to the scientific sword, be the people's (atheists are people too) champions

Remember no faith statements, hard science

a reply to: Raggedyman

All creationists will surrender and aknowledge evolution is true

No you won't.
You'll go to hell if you do.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman

All creationists will surrender and aknowledge evolution is true

No you won't.
You'll go to hell if you do.

Really, my Father God will condemn me because I made a mistake?
Your theology is pretty average there Phage
I know many Christians who believe in evolution, I don't think God loves them any less

Please don't validate your version of a kangaroo court theology over those who understand Christian theology. Sounds like you are just trying to score points and win an argument based on how you can belittle someone's faith over using real science to discuss real science

If you are not up to it, just stand down, smarter people than you have been made to look foolish

a reply to: Raggedyman

I know many Christians who believe in evolution,

So do I. They tend to be better at critical thinking than some others.

Sounds like you are just trying to score points and win an argument based on how you can belittle someone's faith over using real science to discuss real science

I don't belittle faith. I think it's a good thing (potentially, of course it can be highly problematic as well). It's willful ignorance I deplore.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman

I know many Christians who believe in evolution,

So do I. They tend to be better at critical thinking than some others.

Sounds like you are just trying to score points and win an argument based on how you can belittle someone's faith over using real science to discuss real science

I don't belittle faith. I think it's a good thing (potentially, of course it can be highly problematic as well). It's willful ignorance I deplore.

Awesome, I don't like ignorance either

Science, you know that repetable, am I repeating myself

So far you have attacked Christianity and God by saying Christians will be condemned to hell
Offered your own view of your opinion of Christian theology, attacked creationists as ignorant
But
Not once have you offered real scientific evidence
Why don't you show me a picture of a tree and say
" That's the evidence", you wouldn't be the first

Why skirt the science Phage, what are you hiding, nothing?

a reply to: Raggedyman

am I repeating myself

Yes.

Why skirt the science Phage, what are you hiding, nothing?

Yes. Nothing.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: cooperton

A Boeing jet is not a biological machine. Nor is a computer of any model. Nor is a garage door opener.

Biological machines are even more complex than human-made machines because they can heal themselves and reproduce, yet it is popular belief that biological machines self-assembled. That is the fundamental idea behind evolution and abiogenesis.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I read a great article on this subject.

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

a reply to: scojak

That compared with the probability that our cosmalogical constants happened makes the probability of life seem easy.

After reading through 8 pages of this 'back and forth' there is only one conclusion to reach.. Religion indoctrinates.

I'll never touch the stuff

originally posted by: GreenGunther
After reading through 8 pages of this 'back and forth' there is only one conclusion to reach.. Religion indoctrinates.

I'll never touch the stuff

You're fighting bias with bias. How can fire put out a fire?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: GreenGunther
After reading through 8 pages of this 'back and forth' there is only one conclusion to reach.. Religion indoctrinates.

I'll never touch the stuff

You're fighting bias with bias. How can fire put out a fire?

Uh huh..

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: strongfp

Right, but the question is, does the process follow Darwin's theory? The more we learn about synthetic organic chemistry, the more obvious it becomes that Darwin's model serves as a very bad approximation of what actually occurs.

Adaptation is proven, but universal common descent does not rest on solid ground. In the video, it is stated that we are discovering that our "junk DNA" (which is 98% of our DNA) isn't really junk after all, and while we share some almost identical DNA segments with chimps (the 1.5% of our DNA that isn't deemed junk), our "junk DNA" has some significant differences from that of our primate cousins.

Universal common descent remains unproven. Its not obvious that humans share any common ancestor with any primate. Our similarities to other primates could be by intelligent design, rather than a product of random mutation. We simply don't have enough information to prove one theory over the other.

you said it yourself, pure old school darwinism is obsolete. mendel has a lot to do with it, but the theory has "evolved" and updated with all the data collected since chuck put us on the right track. we figured out what to look for and what the evidence means. here is a helpful link that you really should look at to understand what the theory actually says and the research that supports it. and another useful link that focuses on the shared ancestry between the hominidae family. and yet another tool to aid you in your journey. you have a long way to go.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: cooperton

A Boeing jet is not a biological machine. Nor is a computer of any model. Nor is a garage door opener.

Biological machines are even more complex than human-made machines because they can heal themselves and reproduce, yet it is popular belief that biological machines self-assembled. That is the fundamental idea behind evolution and abiogenesis.

well, science does make some fairly compelling arguments.



and history has some input as well.

fascism noun
fas·cism | ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Definition of fascism
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

but more than that, the illustrious list of debates, overflowing with articles and videos and credentialed experts who have spent over a century going through every meticulous step in the scientific method to bring us reliable data, has gone a long way toward convincing us of evolution. the link should be right below my post.

so tell me, since humans could not possibly be descended from billions of years of organic self assembly, who made this intelligent designer you keep mentioning? surely such a creature does not just happen. and that whole "he is eternal" business is even worse than you trying to make evolution look bad. you think our evidence is pitiful? hehe

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

An deity that is claimed to be Omnipowerful is all powerful. Mind this is the same deity who is afraid of a fallen angel apparently, and needs all sorts of fluffing for his ego. As I said, I know your bible (various forms of it too) and other holy texts. Your point was what again?