Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

Where do we stand now as a Union , when Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland have rejected the Brexit bill
but England has chosen to pass it anyway ?

Democracy anyone ?

originally posted by: sapien82
Where do we stand now as a Union , when Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland have rejected the Brexit bill
but England has chosen to pass it anyway ?

Democracy anyone ?

Everyones vote counts but Torries won the majority via the vote which means they get to call the shots for everyone. Governing bodies in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can object but the ruling power is in Westminster as chosen by the people.

The same argument can be used against Scotland if they had indyref2 - No one else gets a say, how is that democratic? It affects the rest of the union directly but is controlled by one country.

At the end of the day, populations of 5.4 Million (s), 3.1 Million (W) 1.8 Million (NI) are outweighed by the bigger tax contribution of 55.5 million and more votes for a party who thrive off of greed.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
And the consequences look severe.

What are these 'severe consequences'? I don't get it. So you have to engage in diplomacy with individual nations rather than 'the group'. Or you tell them all to frack off, and engage in diplomacy with rational nations.

The EU still remains as a the world largest trade group despite Brexit, we can't negotiate with individual EU states.

Nearly all gas, oil, petrol, medicines, most food, a good portion of electricity and other basic essentials for a country to function come from the EU - it'd take decades and trillions to reroute these; the EU hold the upper hand so we can't just tell them to feck off and WTO rules are worse for the UK than EU rules.

We only secured trade deals with 10 countries out of the 90+ approached and the UK loses money to the countries we have deals with as they're a mix of third world countries and tax havens.

a reply to: thekaboose

that wont end well at all

I can see the other devolved powers just leaving the Union and outright abandoning it

a reply to: thekaboose

but the leading party doesnt have the say in how bills are passed , its a democracy it requires a vote
just like everything else and the 3 devolved powers have said no !

in order for bills to pass they require a majority vote dont they ?

originally posted by: bastion
we can't negotiate with individual EU states.

Why?

Nearly all gas, oil, petrol, medicines, most food, a good portion of electricity and other basic essentials for a country to function come from the EU - it'd take decades and trillions to reroute these; the EU hold the upper hand so we can't just tell them to feck off and WTO rules are worse for the UK than EU rules.

So, Trump negotiates a new trade deal with them to provide everything the EU refuses to negotiate with them for - that woudl likely resolve the problem pretty quickly.

We only secured trade deals with 10 countries out of the 90+ approached and the UK loses money to the countries we have deals with as they're a mix of third world countries and tax havens.

Looks like you need someone like Trump to negotiate for you. Maybe he'd do it - for a fee of course...

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: bastion
we can't negotiate with individual EU states.

Why?

Nearly all gas, oil, petrol, medicines, most food, a good portion of electricity and other basic essentials for a country to function come from the EU - it'd take decades and trillions to reroute these; the EU hold the upper hand so we can't just tell them to feck off and WTO rules are worse for the UK than EU rules.

So, Trump negotiates a new trade deal with them to provide everything the EU refuses to negotiate with them for - that woudl likely resolve the problem pretty quickly.

We only secured trade deals with 10 countries out of the 90+ approached and the UK loses money to the countries we have deals with as they're a mix of third world countries and tax havens.

Looks like you need someone like Trump to negotiate for you. Maybe he'd do it - for a fee of course...

Because they are not leaving the EU just us.

EU is a customs union and trade deals are negotiated as a block not individually.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
EU is a customs union and trade deals are negotiated as a block not individually.

Is there anything in the written agreement that forbids it?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
EU is a customs union and trade deals are negotiated as a block not individually.

Is there anything in the written agreement that forbids it?

Yes it's a fundamental part of EU membership.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
EU is a customs union and trade deals are negotiated as a block not individually.

Is there anything in the written agreement that forbids it?

Yes it's a fundamental part of EU membership.

Best reason ever then to not join, and to want out if some demwit before you rammed it through.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
EU is a customs union and trade deals are negotiated as a block not individually.

Is there anything in the written agreement that forbids it?

Yes it's a fundamental part of EU membership.

Best reason ever then to not join, and to want out if some demwit before you rammed it through.

Why?

Countries queue up to join the EU, to a large degree because of the economic advantages of being part of the single market and customs union.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
"Best reason ever then to not join, and to want out if some demwit before you rammed it through."

Why?

Countries queue up to join the EU, to a large degree because of the economic advantages of being part of the single market and customs union.

Because it is giving up basic National Sovereignty in favor of globalist bureaucracy.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
"Best reason ever then to not join, and to want out if some demwit before you rammed it through."

Why?

Countries queue up to join the EU, to a large degree because of the economic advantages of being part of the single market and customs union.

Because it is giving up basic National Sovereignty in favor of globalist bureaucracy.

Joining (or leaving) is entirely a voluntary affair. They give up negotiating individual trade deals in order to get the much greater economic benefits of being part of the CU & SM.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Joining (or leaving) is entirely a voluntary affair. They give up negotiating individual trade deals in order to get the much greater economic benefits of being part of the CU & SM.

Said the spider to the fly.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Joining (or leaving) is entirely a voluntary affair. They give up negotiating individual trade deals in order to get the much greater economic benefits of being part of the CU & SM.

Said the spider to the fly.

Remember to check under your bed at night for those scary globalists.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Boris & Trump are talking big deals. And didja hear: Brexit is Coming! 🇬🇧🇺🇸

a reply to: The GUT

Boris & Trump are talking big deals. And didja hear: Brexit is Coming! 🇬🇧🇺🇸

The NHS for Chlorinated Chicken. Wow!, what a deal.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: ScepticScot

Boris & Trump are talking big deals. And didja hear: Brexit is Coming! 🇬🇧🇺🇸

Maybe, maybe not.

www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org... html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent .co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fbrexit-trade-deal-us-boris-johnson-trump-mnuchin-a9301656.html

Regardless a trade deal with the US is not going to offset the losses from being outside the SM & CU and very likely to be heavily weighted in favour of the US. America First, MAGA, etc.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Remember to check under your bed at night for those scary globalists.

No need, they are everywhere, even here on ATS.

And they aren't scary, just evil pricks that will eventually get what they deserve.