Oliver the Human-Chimp Hybrid / Humanzee

originally posted by: Majic
I understand and sympathize with the temptation to wind things down, but that obviously wasn't working out. If there's still a need to negotiate some sort of peace agreement, I recommend PMs.

In the thread itself, let's please stick to the topic and respect the rights of ATSers to hold their own views about it.

Thanks.

^Thank you, I appreciate the fair moderation, and making it funny with that meme you posted.

Now on-topic, one aspect which has not been focused on much, has been HOW and WHY Oliver would have been potentially conceived?

...Most likely, in Africa, where some undeveloped villages, are still today living among nonhuman primates, in the surrounding forest, around the village.

This is a real thing.

Villages have a pet chimp, or even families or individuals, have their own pet monkey. I'm pointing this out because I had never thought of it, before reading about it, when I was first creating this thread.

So the question of how / why Oliver would have ever been conceived, is simply the fact that humans and monkeys have been living among each other, in certain villages, for probably thousands of years.

And all it would take is one man to commit "unholy union" with the pet chimp that he is already living with, and at some point he finds himself alone with the chimp and does that.

So what i'm describing is sick, psychologically, that a man would do that. However, it is the mostly likely explanation for how Oliver came to be conceived between our two species.

These are just random pics I found, for the general point of showing the coexistence of our species with other primates, in certain spots of Africa, has been common forever:

More rando shots online, showing people living among groups of monkeys, including keeping them as pets:

This South African guy is from an animal rights website, and they're specifically showing him and his pet:







monkeyhelpline.blogspot.com...

a reply to: peacefulpete

So the question of how / why Oliver would have ever been conceived, is simply the fact that humans and monkeys have been living among each other, in certain villages, for probably thousands of years. And all it would take is one man to commit "unholy union" with the pet chimp that he is already living with, and at some point he finds himself alone with the chimp and does that.

So, in all those thousands of years of recorded history, apart - you say - from Oliver, there is no other example of this occurring?

You said earlier in this thread:

There's literally not a single other monkey that walked upright, in all of recorded history. If you want to disagree, then the onus is on you guys to cite a single other example of it. Which doesn't exist.

Then, by your own logic and reasoning, as there is literally not a single "other" case of human/chimpanzee breeding, in all of recorded history, if you want to disagree the onus is upon you to cite a single other example of such a "union" producing an offspring. Which, by the way, doesn't exist.

No?

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: Spacespider
Agreed. I assume u r vegetarian then.

No I am not...

Doing experiments on animals have nothing to do with being vegetarian.

But I only buy meat that comes from animals that had a good life

a reply to: oldcarpy

Now what are you getting at? Did you find another example of a human-chimp hybrid? Isn't Oliver the only one that seems to be documented, ever (including photographed & videotaped)?

IIRC there's also a story of a Chinese scientist creating such a hybrid, but it died, without documentation, so no one knows if the story is real or not... Supposedly died in the destruction of the Cultural Revolution.

Finally a guy named Gordon Gallop also said there had been a hybrid created in the 1920's who was killed, but that is literally nothing but one guy saying something. It obviously lacks all documentation or evidence.

Meanwhile, Oliver was photographed and filmed walking around like a human, and smoking cigars and drinking alcohol with his human family lol.

Now what are you getting at?

I am trying to get you to apply the same logic that you insisted I and others use.

Did you find another example of a human-chimp hybrid?

No, of course not, because I am saying that there is no such thing. You are saying that humans and chimps can interbreed so it's up to you - not me - to come up with a single instance - in all of recorded history - where that has happened.



As I say, (following your own pedantic brand of logic) the onus is upon you to prove your claim:

Isn't Oliver the only one that seems to be documented, ever (including photographed & videotaped)?

You tell me. It's your claim, you prove it, old son. Oliver is "documented" in that there are documents, photos etc but there is no proof that he is a Humanzee.

So, the Chinese guy and the Gallop thing are pretty lame. Got anything else?

Oh, yes. You have this:

Meanwhile, Oliver was photographed and filmed walking around like a human, and smoking cigars and drinking alcohol with his human family lol.

Right. I didn't think so.

So, you have absolutely nothing.

a reply to: peacefulpete

You seem to be forgetting - using your own logic and reasoning, the onus is upon you to show us examples of human/chimp breeding.

Good luck with that.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Well Oliver himself IS the proof, because of all his human-like anomalies. He is the most proof that there is.

There doesn’t need to be other documented cases too lol. It would obviously be very rare that a man would actually want to mate with a chimpanzee. And science experiments would naturally keep hybrid programs a secret because of ethical outcry.

So it makes sense that there are no other documented cases...

a reply to: peacefulpete

Didn't some Russian scientist get in big trouble for trying to interbreed Humans and chimps ? I would think a Orangutan would be a better choice . But it's just not possible there's 0% of a chance . Just like a house cat cant impregnate a lion .

a reply to: peacefulpete

But, as has been pointed out to you many, many times in this thread there is no such proof about Oliver. His "human like anomalies" have been explained to you over and over again. You just don't seem to listen.

There doesn’t need to be other documented cases too lol

Oh yes there does. According to your own pedantic logic. Unless you are saying that humans and chimps can interbreed and produce Humanzees but apart from Oliver (and he is plainly not a Humanzee but a circus act)in all of recorded history there is not one - not one - recorded instance of this happening? Ridiculous.

If what you say is true (it isn't)then applying the very same logic that you have been banging on about in this thread over and over again then the onus is on you to come up with another - just one - example.

But there aren't any, are there? Because it has never and can never happen.

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: peacefulpete

Didn't some Russian scientist get in big trouble for trying to interbreed Humans and chimps ? I would think a Orangutan would be a better choice . But it's just not possible there's 0% of a chance . Just like a house cat cant impregnate a lion .

I don't think I've heard of that case...

Why would an orangutan be a better choice? Chimps are our closest primate relatives.

Also there IS the documented scientific experiment of the human sperm successfully combining with an egg from a different primate (a baboon, IIRC?). But then they destroyed it, to avoid the ethical dilemma of actually watching a human-monkey hybrid develop.

(Probably they did let it develop and just kept it secret, even just out of pure curiosity!)

I bet there are many secret experiments which are never made public.

OK. So I have done some research for the OP (as he seems a bit reluctant to do any for himself) and found this:



Seems I was wrong and the OP was right all along.

Case closed!

a reply to: peacefulpete

Humans are 97% the same as orangutans a small portion of orangutan DNA is a closer match to human DNA.


"Orangutans, not chimpanzees, are the closest living relatives to humans, a controversial new study contends. The authors base their conclusion on a close physical resemblance between orangutans and humans, which they say has been overshadowed by genetic evidence linking us to chimps. "

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: peacefulpete

But, as has been pointed out to you many, many times in this thread there is no such proof about Oliver. His "human like anomalies" have been explained to you over and over again. You just don't seem to listen.

There doesn’t need to be other documented cases too lol

Oh yes there does. According to your own pedantic logic. Unless you are saying that humans and chimps can interbreed and produce Humanzees but apart from Oliver (and he is plainly not a Humanzee but a circus act)in all of recorded history there is not one - not one - recorded instance of this happening? Ridiculous.

If what you say is true (it isn't)then applying the very same logic that you have been banging on about in this thread over and over again then the onus is on you to come up with another - just one - example.

But there aren't any, are there? Because it has never and can never happen.

Well now you seem to be going in circles.

Oliver's anomalies still stand as the most proof that there is. Regardless how much you want to dismiss all of his human-like traits.

Unless you are saying that humans and chimps can interbreed and produce Humanzees but apart from Oliver (and he is plainly not a Humanzee but a circus act)in all of recorded history there is not one - not one - recorded instance of this happening?

Right. Because it's rare that a human would want to mate with a chimpanzee. And because the science experiments would be expected to keep their existence secret.

If what you say is true (it isn't)then applying the very same logic that you have been banging on about in this thread over and over again then the onus is on you to come up with another - just one - example. But there aren't any, are there? Because it has never and can never happen.

No, there doesn't need to be a second documented case.

Although if you were to look hard enough, there must be some obscure folktales about human-monkey hybrids, probably, from over the centuries.

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: peacefulpete

Humans are 97% the same as orangutans .


"Orangutans, not chimpanzees, are the closest living relatives to humans, a controversial new study contends. The authors base their conclusion on a close physical resemblance between orangutans and humans, which they say has been overshadowed by genetic evidence linking us to chimps. "

Do you have a link? That sounds extremely questionable.

The exact percentage of shared DNA seems indeterminate but there are many sources citing us as sharing 98% or even 99% the same DNA as chimpanzees.

Plus they're our closest relatives in terms of evolutionary branches of the primate family tree.

Plus they resemble us physically the most out of other primates.

Actually there's even a type of naked chimps that REALLY look like humans. I should post some pics of that. (i.e. They're naked because they barely grow any hair at all.)

a reply to: peacefulpete

Well now you seem to be going in circles.

Me?!!!!!!! Priceless.

Right. Because it's rare that a human would want to mate with a chimpanzee.

Never been to Wales, then? Where men are men and sheep are......scared?

Rare, maybe, but in the thousands of years of recorded history - not one single example? Have the good grace and honesty to apply the very same logic that you keep insisting others use.

At least, until it doesn't suit you. Obviously.

a reply to: peacefulpete

Actually there's even a type of naked chimps that REALLY look like humans. I should post some pics of that. (i.e. They're naked because they barely grow any hair at all.)

Oh really? Now then, just what have you been Googling on?

LOL!

a reply to: peacefulpete

Here's the Russian biologist who tried to interbreed

Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: peacefulpete

Well now you seem to be going in circles.

Me?!!!!!!! Priceless.

Right. Because it's rare that a human would want to mate with a chimpanzee.

Never been to Wales, then? Where men are men and sheep are......scared?

Rare, maybe, but in the thousands of years of recorded history - not one single example? Have the good grace and honesty to apply the very same logic that you keep insisting others use.

At least, until it doesn't suit you. Obviously.

The cases over the centuries would just be folktales though.

We’ve only had cameras for something like 150 yrs, and modern science is a relatively new thing too.

So the proof from past centuries would just be their old folklore about monkey-men. Which I assume that there is such folklore lol, because there’s folklore about just about anything lol.