Do the Freemasons preserve arcane mystical and occult knowledge in their rituals?

MysticOfRadiance - there is a difference between "Conspiracy Theory" -
"Rumor Mongering" & flat out "SLANDER"!

Unfortunately, either the Trolls don't know the difference or don't care!

ML, I find it interesting how you can wow someone by merely saying Ahura-Mazda, however if I subscribed here by the name Ormazd there would be no such praise, despite denials of ignorance.

Makes you wonder how much does such praise matter?

Any one who bothered to read the initiation of James Shaw into the 33rd degree would know the place of Ahura-Mazda in the Scottish Rite. Hell, the link was probably posted less than 48 hours ago.

ML, you call me a part of the herd, do you not? Then let me assume it is your opinion that any individual attempt at gaining understanding from the Mysteries is doomed? Must one be shown the way to see for oneself?

Originally posted by akilles
Any one who bothered to read the initiation of James Shaw into the 33rd degree would know the place of Ahura-Mazda in the Scottish Rite.

Anyone who bothered to research Shaw's history would discover several lies he told. Shaw WASN'T initiated into the 33rd Degree and the so-called 33rd Degree Ritual he used is from an old expose' of Cerneauism (a pseudo-Masonic group that existed in the 1800's)

See:

www.srmason-sj.org...

Read the WHOLE book akilles...you might learn something.

Originally posted by akilles
ML, I find it interesting how you can wow someone by merely saying Ahura-Mazda, however if I subscribed here by the name Ormazd there would be no such praise, despite denials of ignorance.

I'm not quite sure what you mean; Ahura Mazda and Ormuzd are both names for God in Zoroastrianism, in the Zend dialect. I used "Ahura Mazda" above because this name is the one found most often in the Avesta, but Ormuzd is equivalent to it.

Any one who bothered to read the initiation of James Shaw into the 33rd degree would know the place of Ahura-Mazda in the Scottish Rite. Hell, the link was probably posted less than 48 hours ago.

Shaw was never really a 33° Mason, as I've shown previously here. In fact, when he resigned, he was a 32° KCCH (I've previously posted photocopies of his resignation letter, membership card, Scottish Rite Reunion program, and demit, all confirming that he was a 32° KCCH, not a 33°, as he later claimed).

But, regardless, Ahura Mazda is mentioned in the 32°, not the 33°. The 32° contains the teachings and history of Zoroastrianism, which were the doctrines of the early Magi. Practically the entire ritual of the 32° consists of lectures on ancient Hinduism and Zoroastrianism, accompanied by readings from the Upanishads and Zend Avesta by the Vedic Poets.

ML, you call me a part of the herd, do you not?

I've said that, in the past, your attacks on Masonry have illustrated what Nietzsche called the "herd mentality", because such attacks seem to represent a fear of "otherness", or independent thinking. For example, you seem to have implied that there is something amiss in Scottish Rite Masons discussing Zoroastrianism in initiation ceremonies. Why such a thing would be considered shady by you or anyone else, I have absolutely no idea, except that most people, i.e., the herd, do not discuss such things, so it makes them uncomfortable.

Then let me assume it is your opinion that any individual attempt at gaining understanding from the Mysteries is doomed? Must one be shown the way to see for oneself?

I would not say that the individual attempt is doomed; indeed, it must be individualistic, or otherwise it is worthless. This is why the Mysteries themselves, although practiced in groups of like minded people, taught only by symbol and allegory, leaving the individual to work it out for himself at his own leisure and convenience.

I would say that no, it is not necessary to be shown the way by another, and to believe that such is even possible can be dangerous in itself. This is sort of what I implied above; Masonry, for examples, discusses all schools of thought, and the individual is left to decide for himself which, if any, is most accurate. The 32° discusses Hinduism and Zoroastrianism; the 28° discusses the Kabalah; the 24° discusses Islam; the 25° - 27° discuss Christianity. Other degrees discuss various schools of ethics, or political science, or philosopher. The candidate is never told that any of these doctrines are necessarily correct; only that they should be contemplated.



[edit on 4-3-2005 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
MysticOfRadiance - there is a difference between "Conspiracy Theory" -
"Rumor Mongering" & flat out "SLANDER"!

Unfortunately, either the Trolls don't know the difference or don't care!

there is a reason and blaming others for your lack of understanding and knowledge wont help you.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

Quote: "lack of understanding and knowledge."

*MY* Lack of Understanding & Knowledge? Excuse me? Do you know me? How is it that you can judge my "Understanding & Knowledge" - or lack thereof - of ANY TOPIC? Just who are you again? Did you Graduate from University? Are you a Professor or Professional of some sort? Or are you just some teen-age kid pretending to know what they are talking about?

nothing wrong with decent advice, just individuals who cant or wont see there own reflection.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "Damn Mithras Worshippers."

Damn Fundamentalists - trying to force their Orthodox Viewpoints down others throats - calling everyone who is not in their own little Personal Cult a "Satanist". Contributing nothing to Society but Inquisitions - Destroying the Lives of Brilliant Scientists & Artists & Mathematicians in the name of "Witch Hunting"!

Jeez you would think that it was a crime to study "Ancient Religions". You know there is no Law that states that everyone in the world must be an Orthodox Judeo-Christian (although the likes of you would probably enjoy this)! Have you ever heard of the concepts of Freedom & Liberty - Akilles?


[edit on 1-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

seraphim serpente you carry christianity in your ats signatures section, christianity was probably one of the worst things to ever happen to the mysteries, yet you blame ats posters.

[edit on 5-3-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

When are you people going to realize that there is MORE than just one type/form of "Christianity"! I consider myself a Christian - yet I am also an Open Minded, Free Thinking Intellectual! I embrace the use of Science & Reason & Logic as tools! I practice MYSTICAL Christianity - I am NOT the Strict Orthodox Fundamentalist type of "Christian". I embrace the "Mysteries"!

I see & hear a lot of bad mouthing of Christians in the World. This is understandable because I myself have witnessed so-called professed "Christians" say & do very Horrible & "Un-Christian" things! This is why I sort of identify with & feel sorry for Moslems - they *ALL* get a bad wrap for the actual Terrorists in their Community! But at the same time Not EVERY Moslem is a "Terrorist" - there are a lot of Moslems that are Good People!

The same holds true for Christianity - try not to Stereotype us *ALL* just because you run into a
Racist Bigot Pig War-Monger that calls themself a "Christian" - that is just an obvious form of CAMOFLAGUE!


[edit on 6-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

The most attractive thing I find in Freemasonry is , we do not give a tinkers cuss what religion you are.

Do you know that there is not a section on the initiation application form that asks , what colour, race or religion you are.

Having been off work sick for a while I have had to draw benefit, I have filled out at least 12 forms in order to do this. I had to answer those questions on each form.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
When are you people going to realize that there is MORE than just one type/form of "Christianity"! I consider myself a Christian - yet I am also an Open Minded, Free Thinking Intellectual! I embrace the use of Science & Reason & Logic as tools! I practice MYSTICAL Christianity - I am NOT the Strict Orthodox Fundamentalist type of "Christian". I embrace the "Mysteries"!

I see & hear a lot of bad mouthing of Christians in the World. This is understandable because I myself have witnessed so-called professed "Christians" say & do very Horrible & "Un-Christian" things! This is why I sort of identify with & feel sorry for Moslems - they *ALL* get a bad wrap for the actual Terrorists in their Community! But at the same time Not EVERY Moslem is a "Terrorist" - there are a lot of Moslems that are Good People!

The same holds true for Christianity - try not to Stereotype us *ALL* just because you run into a
Racist Bigot Pig War-Monger that calls themself a "Christian" - that is just an obvious form of CAMOFLAGUE!


[edit on 6-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

history and the results are clear, despite your made up religion games.


[edit on 6-3-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

i myself do not cuss any religion..if it works for you it works for you..guess you need it..
i do cuss Science & Reason & Logic as tools.
to some extent maybe they help you with in the perameters of living with in this exterior illusion we live with in..
i say down with all that and sit under a tree..it does not have to be a bo tree..any tree or place where you can experience the power of silence will work..
why cant you all move beyond the illusions you create..

the secrets ,power,everything you really need to know is with in us..not outside of us..
we are all gods...that is no illusion...thou it is to most of you...all your waring ..all are blinded by your text books
and please dont blame all this dribble from me on some kind of label

Its up to y'all to decide what is mystical about the following, although it is definitely hidden in Washington DCs street plan, so it is occult.

And well, the city was designed by Freemasons, so they do exhibit occult knowledge in their name sake, stone work.

Here ya go.


Look East, my Son.

even if you had no knowledge consciously about ley lines etc...and where to place what...
the earth energy influences us beyond our knowledge...
thou i believe you are correct with the masons knowlege of this..for they built washington dc.on no mans land..

i dont place myself in a cult..just nature and i place a hexagram on my solar plexus...no with craft here..

this is not satanic

look east when you die your death..look west while you live,run and run to catch up with the sun..
swallow it whole

Originally posted by akilles
Its up to y'all to decide what is mystical about the following, although it is definitely hidden in Washington DCs street plan, so it is occult.

And well, the city was designed by Freemasons, so they do exhibit occult knowledge in their name sake, stone work.

You do realize that there was another, more practical, purpose for having the streets laid out like that, don't you? From Wikipedia:

"L'Enfant based his design on Paris, which incorporated a basic grid system, inter-cut with broad diagonal avenues radiating from circles and squares... the diagonal avenues also served as sightlines for the defense of the city in the event of an invasion."

It's easy to assume that since L'Enfant was a Freemason, he must be up to something. But, like with most things, the simplest explanation is the one that makes the most sense.

I believe it was a Prince-Hall Mason who designed D.C.


www.chaires259.com...

Benjamin Banneker, designed the nation's capital; inventor; astronomer

And yes there is quite a bit of Esoteric symbolism involved.


For one; the Phallic Obelisk, which is symbolic of the Masculine Generative Principle(Ausar, Shiva, The IOD of IOD-HE-VAV-HE, etc.)


[edit on 6-3-2005 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

You do realize that there was another, more practical, purpose for having the streets laid out like that, don't you?

Not to mention the fact that the pentagram street lay-out thing is phoney. You can take a map of any intersection in the world, find five co-ordinate points, and draw a pentagram on it, it isn't that hard; akilles, on the other hand, appears to think it's some sort of huge discovery.

You can do the exact same thing with practically any other shape or geometrically figure.

Originally posted by Tamahu
I believe it was a Prince-Hall Mason who designed D.C.

Uuuuuhhh.. the designer of the layout of our nation's capitol is VERY well known: Pierre L'Enfant (a french mason).

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Not to mention the fact that the pentagram street lay-out thing is phoney. You can take a map of any intersection in the world, find five co-ordinate points, and draw a pentagram on it, it isn't that hard; akilles, on the other hand, appears to think it's some sort of huge discovery.

You can do the exact same thing with practically any other shape or geometrically figure.

I know! But since there was no masonic involvement anywhere else, you don't hear Akilles or his like talking about it!