Spirit Material?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Moongirl

Nobody knows.

Yes, they do. It is just you never met them.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Woodcarver

"Are you asking me to prove a negative?"

Philosophically, In law, or from a statistical sense?

Because the concept of a null hypothesis is used differently.

There you go attempting to introduce derogatory interjections into what should be a meaningful debate.

Have you ever been tested? As it may be an idea considering the narcissism you have displayed in spades in this thread alone. x

You say you were an electrical engineer but you don’t know how to use the quote function on these boards?

Philosophically, In law, or from a statistical sense?

I don’t know, you’re the one asking me to prove a negative? It’s your question.

Pointing out that you should know better than to ask me to prove a negative is not a derogatory remark. It is pointing out that your grasp of logic should be much higher if you are actually an electrical engineer.

Apparently you've never studied the ability of human errors and typos... Human errors are strong, I guess you missed that through not paying attention in life.

I make typos all the time I’m not worried about it. Most of them are due to me using a voice to text function on my phone.

Then dont bash others for doing the same and I dont care for your excuse to why they happen.

Using the quote function is part of t&c. Neglecting to use it is not a typo. Will you please get back to the topic at hand?

And why do you care so much?

Do I really need to justify my curiosity to you?

Why am I curious? Because I would like to know. Maybe I’m interested in people who claim to have abilities that seem to defy our understandings. Maybe I want to find somebody who can help me be the first to explain it in scientific terms. Perhaps I just don’t like it when people tell lies to manipulate others into believing they are special. Either way you look at it, the only way to come to any valid confirmation of these abilities whether they be magic or physiological in someway, is to study them. It is to find people who are willing to come forward and present their claims for testing. Are you against that in someway? Do you think this isn’t worth studying? Do you think I should accept everyone’s claims at face value without something to back them up?

Wow, you really are like talking to a rock. I asked "Why do you care" for "Why do you care so much about someone using quotes or their typos" not about spirituality or why your curious, I never asked you that. Stop cutting out what others write and giving an answer to a question that was never asked. Idc why your curious into spirituality. And why dont you create your own thread and make it more aware to ATS'rs instead of someone elses thread.

It’s not my fault that your words were too vague for me to get the right impression of what you were asking.

Actually, you said this EXACTLY

Using the quote function is part of t&c. Neglecting to use it is not a typo. Will you please get back to the topic at hand?

and I responded back with EXACTLY

And why do you care so much?

Now, please elaborate on which part you did not understand and was sooooo vague? We were arguing over another member here on ATS that couldn't use quotations to your liking, do you not remember?

Can we please stick to the subject matter at hand? I’m not interested in whatever you are getting it.

Here's what im getting at, your bashing everybodies answer that you do not like, your cutting out questions and even making up questions I asked and giving me answers i never asked you for, then you like to play stupid on me being so vague when it was pretty obvious to the answer of my question, You were being a grammar nazi and doing nothing but being a negative nancy. Ive asked you several times to create your own thread if your doing such a deep scientific study and offering to pay ANYBODY $10,000 that can prove whatever it is you seek. But instead you hide away in this thread with a few who respond to you and you constantly question the answer instead of moving forward. Your quite annoying and I honestly dont believe you have squat to offer for money and studies.

I did happen to notice that nobody from this thread has won the Nobel prize for Parapsychological inquiry. Please quote the answer in this thread that you believe to be the best explanation.

I’ll be happy to re-start there and focus on that for a while with you.

Doing your studies you should have notes on all Q&A, your the scientist offering $10,000, what might that best answer be from this thread? Im not the one bashing everybody and offering $10,000... You are

I looked at his bank balance using my remote viewing ability.
He doesn't even have 1000 dollars in savings, let alone 10,000.
The guy's a fraud!

He also sells "real magic wands" on his website, I'm still waiting for a refund.

Are you even capable of staying on topic? I know you made this account to be your go to troll account, but I would think that you would try to keep it a little more subtle so as to not get your posts deleted.

You could join the discussion you don’t have to just throw a tantrum every time.

How would you know this is his troll account, have you done an extensive investigation and come up with proof Mr."I have a high standard when it comes to these discussions. That high standard comes from my training as a scientist." You actually said that exact thing. Do you have proof, can you validate your research on said troll?

Any account he has is a troll account. Are you interested in the subject or not?

Start a thread and see what you get. I was interested into who created this thread and gave them my personal experience, opinion, imagination, whatever you want to call it.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: imitator

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: imitator
a reply to: Woodcarver

Isn't it possible that science, or preliminary evaluation tests could be setup to look for data that confirms a desired result?

that would depend completely on the tests and how well suited they are to evaluate. We would literally have to take it by a case by case process.

It is very common for people to do bad science. There are lots of examples of it. Fortunately for us we can evaluate whether their methods are valid. If you would like to talk about a particular case I’m down for that. But if you were talking in general, or overall. I think that we would agree that there are far more cons out there then there are people who can demonstrate some ability.

First off, we need to find someone who is willing to demonstrate an ability. Do you know anyone? It’s really pointless to start anywhere else.

I am always open to suggestions for ways to trashed such claims. If you have any ideas I would be happy to hear them.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Right on, I've never really dove into the para-ability stuff... This subject just peaked my curiosity.

What are your thoughts on Russell Targ? I was just youtubing remote viewing, it's total new subject to me. Is the guy legit? and remote viewing?

I have never heard about him specifically, but there is a long standing debate about whether remote viewing is viable. It is actually one of the most testable abilities that people claim to have. In fact that is a test that we could do here on the forum if anybody is interested in actually studying this subject matter.

Russell Targ supposedly worked for the CIA and other government agencies, studying and using psychic abilities, remote viewing etc. According to his TED talks vid he started off as a skeptic turned believer. ( I just watched that vid) He seems very sincere and not kooky... interesting dude.

Awesome, it would be great to test some forum members. After doing a bit of research, it seems anyone can remote view, and after a bit practice can become very proficient at it. (According to some remote viewers)

I bet folks here can think of several ways of testing so there's no funny business. For example: The object to be remote viewed is shared with several trusted members, have the object photograph uploaded and time stamped on a web page etc. then reveal the object after the viewer has been tested. Seems pretty simple....


Who knows, maybe we can remote view spirit material too....

There are three kinds of "spirits".
1. Earthbound human beings whose consciousness is trapped in their etheric bodies because it did not undergo the process of disintegration that accompanies most normal deaths;
2. discarnate beings that temporarily materialise in etheric matter provided by the person/people with whom they need to communicate.
3. human beings who are functioning on the next higher plane of consciousness above the physical plane, which is the 26-dimensional space-time continuum predicted by quantum mechanics for bosonic strings, and who are seen clairvoyantly by someone who is either psychic with an activated ajna chakra or experiences spontaneous but temporary clairvoyant vision sometimes activated by the communicating, discarnate visitor.
Etheric matter is so-called "shadow matter". E8xE8' heterotic superstring theory predicts the existence of two universes:
1. the familiar universe filled with ordinary matter composed of E8'-singlet states of this type of superstring;
2. an invisible universe pervaded by "shadow matter" composed of E8-singlet states of this type of superstring.

The two kinds of matter exist in two 10-dimensional space-time sheets that are separated by a narrow gap extending along the 10th dimension of space required by 11-d supergravity theories and the M-theory that encompasses both supergravity and superstring forces. Each kind of matter is confined to its own sheet and interacts only gravitationally with each other. This makes shadow matter invisible to human sight. Both universes co-exist in the same 10-dimensional space-time but never overlap because they are always separated by a narrow distance extending along the 10th dimension of space.
Shadow matter is entirely physical because both classes of matter are equally fundamental. However, the physics of the shadow matter universe is the result of entirely different stages of symmetry-breakdown of E8', so that the corresponding atoms, molecules, etc making up objects in the shadow matter universe are unlike those known to physicists and chemists. Human beings live in both universes simultaneously, although they are not aware of it except when they have certain types of paranormal experiences. For example, the chi force that flows along the 12 acupuncture meridians is the shadow matter counterpart of the electromagnetism that accompanies the flow of electricity throughout the body of ordinary, fleshy matter. It cannot be detected by physical scientific instruments because it does not interact with ordinary matter except gravitationally and this is too weak to be detectable in practice. This non-detectability, of course, is what makes acupuncture (and paranormal processes in general) so controversial. It is a direct consequence of the mathematical prediction by E8xE8' heterotic superstring theory of two classes of matter, E8-singlet states and E8'-singlet states. This initially resulted in physicists ignoring the shadow matter sector because of the difficulty of testing predictions about it. However, the discovery of dark matter has made it relevant because this fundamental class of matter has all the properties needed of shadow matter. What psychics have called "etheric matter" is simply shadow matter. What psychics have called "psychic forces" responsible for psychokinesis, etc is simply long-range forces between the superstrings of shadow matter, generated by a break-down of the symmetry of E8' that is entirely different from that of E8. I have been studying this topic for 20 years, but this is not the place to discuss my technical work.

a reply to: micpsi

Would you be willing to undergo some scrutiny without getting angry and losing the plot?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Woodie you are asking a person to describe the taste of a cheese cake, asking if it's good or not
They can't tell you their experience, they don't have yours

You want the truth, go experience it for yourself
Go and experience the spiritual for yourself, do your own science on a personal level

Right now you are a blind person saying their is no light because you can't see it

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver

Woodie you are asking a person to describe the taste of a cheese cake, asking if it's good or not
They can't tell you their experience, they don't have yours

You want the truth, go experience it for yourself
Go and experience the spiritual for yourself, do your own science on a personal level

Right now you are a blind person saying their is no light because you can't see it

I think in this case Woodcarver is asking a reasonable question. Mcipsi is making a statement about items without explaining many of the terms being used. Now if mcipsi wanted to pop back in and explain the terms that they are using better, as well as possibly explain how the came to these conclusions, then that would be different.

Raggedyman, While you are right in stating that we should ask a person to explain their experiences, if they are willing to freely give their own accounts, then they should be willing to explain them a little more if asked. Telling a person that they should "go experience it for yourself", isn't really helping the conversation. Brainstorming sessions don't advance if people are shouting, "you figure it out". Instead let's keep the conversion about what a spirit might be made of, and talk about that topic. Think of it as a thought exercise if nothing else.

a reply to: Guyfriday

And you are right of course but
Woodie doesn't believe in any spiritual, non material non scientificaly explainable situation, has never and probably will never
Millions of people have documented their spiritual experiences, reiki, auras, that stuff, it's nearly endless, it's well documented and I once didn't believe in it myself

I certainly don't subscribe to the "you figure it out" philosophy
Woodie is correct, spiritualism is not scientific but in my opinion it's real.
The only answer I'd for Mr Carver to get in contact with people who can teach him to experience the spiritual world, effectively proving or disproving it

I have dealt with Mr Carver many times in the past, his only option if he wants to find out the truth, he needs a journey

Woodie will argue over and over and over, will concede nothing and then think he knows the truth, he only knows his own truth
The only way Woodie will know the truth in this situation is if he experiences the taste of the cake for himself. Well that's what I think anyway

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Guyfriday

The only way Woodie will know the truth in this situation is if he experiences the taste of the cake for himself. Well that's what I think anyway

That gives me an ideal... Test Newton's third law on Woodcarver. Maybe he'd be willing to take a clairvoyance/remote view test?

I believe Physicists Russell Targ is credited with coining the term remote viewing in the 1960s, he also says anyone can learn it, he even has an app that can be downloaded to study from.

Targ believes if you learn to quiet your mind, and move your awareness into timeless awareness, you are likely to begin to experience extrasensory perception.

Thus, if Woodcarver was to practices remote viewing, we could verify that anyone can learn by giving him a test.... but then again he could fail on purpose etc. However, he gets a taste of the cake for himself.

I'd gladly host it myself. : )

a reply to: Moongirl

If I had a guess - spirits are made of an energy; probably one that we either do not know about or only vaguely know about.

I say this because:
1. I've noticed that during thunderstorms, it seems like activity increases.
2. I consider cold spots as evidence (something is taking away energy from that spot; that energy is fueling something).
3. Mainstream ghost hunters bring devices to help put energy into the environment (ie: Jacob's Ladder device).
4. Energy could be photographed (kirlian photography; auras) that isn't seen to the naked eye - it could also suck out the life of electronics in the area.

Funny enough - I remember reading somewhere that there was a study about people living next to the high-power lines and paranormal activity: I think the conclusion was that the high-power lines caused hallucinations (Or, to play Devil's Advocate...maybe the matter spirits are made of is attracted to it?).

a reply to: imitator

All or nothing, no dabbling
Woodie would have to get involved with other people on a personal level, no internet involved
Real time, real people, real documented spiritual test, would be my suggestion

a reply to: micpsi

This is a super-rich entry to this thread. It contains a lot of terms and concepts I intend to look up. Thanks for that.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: xBWOMPx

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Woodcarver

"Are you asking me to prove a negative?"

Philosophically, In law, or from a statistical sense?

Because the concept of a null hypothesis is used differently.

There you go attempting to introduce derogatory interjections into what should be a meaningful debate.

Have you ever been tested? As it may be an idea considering the narcissism you have displayed in spades in this thread alone. x

You say you were an electrical engineer but you don’t know how to use the quote function on these boards?

Philosophically, In law, or from a statistical sense?

I don’t know, you’re the one asking me to prove a negative? It’s your question.

Pointing out that you should know better than to ask me to prove a negative is not a derogatory remark. It is pointing out that your grasp of logic should be much higher if you are actually an electrical engineer.

Apparently you've never studied the ability of human errors and typos... Human errors are strong, I guess you missed that through not paying attention in life.

I make typos all the time I’m not worried about it. Most of them are due to me using a voice to text function on my phone.

Then dont bash others for doing the same and I dont care for your excuse to why they happen.

Using the quote function is part of t&c. Neglecting to use it is not a typo. Will you please get back to the topic at hand?

And why do you care so much?

Do I really need to justify my curiosity to you?

Why am I curious? Because I would like to know. Maybe I’m interested in people who claim to have abilities that seem to defy our understandings. Maybe I want to find somebody who can help me be the first to explain it in scientific terms. Perhaps I just don’t like it when people tell lies to manipulate others into believing they are special. Either way you look at it, the only way to come to any valid confirmation of these abilities whether they be magic or physiological in someway, is to study them. It is to find people who are willing to come forward and present their claims for testing. Are you against that in someway? Do you think this isn’t worth studying? Do you think I should accept everyone’s claims at face value without something to back them up?

Wow, you really are like talking to a rock. I asked "Why do you care" for "Why do you care so much about someone using quotes or their typos" not about spirituality or why your curious, I never asked you that. Stop cutting out what others write and giving an answer to a question that was never asked. Idc why your curious into spirituality. And why dont you create your own thread and make it more aware to ATS'rs instead of someone elses thread.

It’s not my fault that your words were too vague for me to get the right impression of what you were asking.

Actually, you said this EXACTLY

Using the quote function is part of t&c. Neglecting to use it is not a typo. Will you please get back to the topic at hand?

and I responded back with EXACTLY

And why do you care so much?

Now, please elaborate on which part you did not understand and was sooooo vague? We were arguing over another member here on ATS that couldn't use quotations to your liking, do you not remember?

Can we please stick to the subject matter at hand? I’m not interested in whatever you are getting it.

Here's what im getting at, your bashing everybodies answer that you do not like, your cutting out questions and even making up questions I asked and giving me answers i never asked you for, then you like to play stupid on me being so vague when it was pretty obvious to the answer of my question, You were being a grammar nazi and doing nothing but being a negative nancy. Ive asked you several times to create your own thread if your doing such a deep scientific study and offering to pay ANYBODY $10,000 that can prove whatever it is you seek. But instead you hide away in this thread with a few who respond to you and you constantly question the answer instead of moving forward. Your quite annoying and I honestly dont believe you have squat to offer for money and studies.

I did happen to notice that nobody from this thread has won the Nobel prize for Parapsychological inquiry. Please quote the answer in this thread that you believe to be the best explanation.

I’ll be happy to re-start there and focus on that for a while with you.

Doing your studies you should have notes on all Q&A, your the scientist offering $10,000, what might that best answer be from this thread? Im not the one bashing everybody and offering $10,000... You are

I looked at his bank balance using my remote viewing ability.
He doesn't even have 1000 dollars in savings, let alone 10,000.
The guy's a fraud!

He also sells "real magic wands" on his website, I'm still waiting for a refund.

Are you even capable of staying on topic? I know you made this account to be your go to troll account, but I would think that you would try to keep it a little more subtle so as to not get your posts deleted.

You could join the discussion you don’t have to just throw a tantrum every time.

Lol
1. I have only one account here, this one.
2. I don't think I've ever had one of my posts deleted here.
3. If you have any evidence to back up these claims, present them instead of throwing your own little tantrums every time I make you feel silly.

Your childish outburst only serve to make you look silly. Some people here are actually interested in the subject.

At the end of the day, Woodcarver, you DO NOT have 10,000 dollars.
So do stop offering it to people.

All that appears is made of spirit - it maybe assumed to be made of matter - but spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.

It is like waves are made of water - the wave is not separate or different from water.

All that is, is nothing appearing as something.

Emptiness is forming.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
All that appears is made of spirit - it maybe assumed to be made of matter - but spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.

It is like waves are made of water - the wave is not separate or different from water.

All that is, is nothing appearing as something.

Emptiness is forming.

That is what string/brane theory states. It is what Theosophy claims - matter is the absence of so-called "koilon" (Greek for "a hollow or cavity"). See p. 16 here. It is what Mahayana Buddhism declares in its Sunyata* doctine of emptiness, or voidness, although the teaching applies not only to matter but to everything in reality, i.e., no phenomenon has an irreducible core. See here.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Śūnya means "zero," "nothing," "empty" or "void". Śūnya comes from the root śvi, meaning "hollow". -tā means "-ness".

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: micpsi

Would you be willing to undergo some scrutiny without getting angry and losing the plot?

Of course. I am a theoretical physicist. My only attachment is to the truth.

originally posted by: micpsi

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Moongirl

Nobody knows.

Yes, they do. It is just you never met them.

No, they don't including you because you can only theorize as you have done above.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
All that appears is made of spirit - it maybe assumed to be made of matter - but spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.

It is like waves are made of water - the wave is not separate or different from water.

All that is, is nothing appearing as something.

Emptiness is forming.

So, you think spirit has no matter, rather that spirit manifests matter. So we are back to square one, of what is spirit composed.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
All that appears is made of spirit - it maybe assumed to be made of matter - but spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.

It is like waves are made of water - the wave is not separate or different from water.

All that is, is nothing appearing as something.

Emptiness is forming.

So, you think spirit has no matter, rather that spirit manifests matter. So we are back to square one, of what is spirit composed.

Spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.
Spirit is not a thing but appears as an image - this entire present image.
Can anyone go outside the present image to see if there is anything outside?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
All that appears is made of spirit - it maybe assumed to be made of matter - but spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.

It is like waves are made of water - the wave is not separate or different from water.

All that is, is nothing appearing as something.

Emptiness is forming.

So, you think spirit has no matter, rather that spirit manifests matter. So we are back to square one, of what is spirit composed.

Spirit is manifesting as what is appearing.
Spirit is not a thing but appears as an image - this entire present image.
Can anyone go outside the present image to see if there is anything outside?

I certainly can't, if I could I'd venture out to the ends of the known universe to see what lies beyond, but then I'd have a desire to venture beyond even further.