Trump migrant separation policy: Children 'in cages' in Texas

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: underwerks

Bad is bad, regardless of who does it.

Like someone who illegally crosses a border. I'm not saying they're bad people, but what they did is bad. Seriously, if I tried it I would be subject to the same process.

So why is America and only America vilified when every developed country dealing with this problem does the same thing?

I always thought America was supposed to be different, better than most of the rest of the world in how we are and how we treat people. That whole Statue of Liberty thing..

For a country where the elected party espouses nationalism, a lot of people seem happy to use the rest of the world as a metric to measure ourselves.

Well in some ways we're damned one way or the other. Because people are going to be outraged no matter what we do. Unfortunately we just can't let everyone in, it would cripple this country.

I don’t think we should let everyone in either. What I want is just a change to the current policy of separating children from their families. That could be gone about a lot of different ways. If anyone in power actually wanted to change that policy.

But as it is, it’s a hot button issue. Which means politicians from both sides are going to try and milk all they can from it regardless of what happens to the people in question.

As is in most cases, politics is the disease, not the cure for the problem.

originally posted by: Willtell
Separating Children From Their Parents Is a New Low for Our Immigration System

www.thenation.com...

The Trump administration has been systematically dividing families, opening traumatized migrants to greater distress.

President Trump’s new “zero tolerance” immigration policy aims at “taking back” the country by taking children from parents. About 700 families have in recent months been systematically separated, with children being separated from parents—even when families could legitimately apply for asylum, and even when doing so puts already terrorized families at even greater risk.

Trump and his administration are on a new low. Almost a level with a Hitler.

www.thenation.com...

It happened before trump... So it's not a new low.

Also, Godwin's law.

Also, such hyperbole makes us liberals look bad.

a reply to: olaru12

Trumps CIC now!

And that is the Hypocrites, I mean Democrats, fallacy of the situation that has existed. Not a peep until, well you know.

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: Muninn
a reply to: Willtell

Unlike you, I research before I post

Next time try researching with the monitor on.

Some people are so blind in their heart and souls, so selfish and spiritually devoid of empathy and compassion they’re blind inwardly

Trump and those who can’t see the evil in this are blind like that


There’s an old saying

If the shoe fits wear it

Awesome, so you admit that Obama did it too?

I think a wall would fix a lot of these situations.

a reply to: Willtell

Some people are so blind in their heart and souls, so selfish and spiritually devoid of empathy and compassion they’re blind inwardly

So I'm sure you're volunteering or donating towards this cause that isn't new. It's been a problem for decades, and believe it or not, people have tried and failed to solve it.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: underwerks

The more the followers of Trump turn their backs on basic human decency, the faster this country will wash their hands of them.

The more his opposition acts like this is new, the faster this country will whitewash the same thing predecessors have done.

I figured if this was horrible when Obama did it, it would still be horrible now. I guess not.

All we have are excuses. Can’t say I’m really surprised.

Sure, but why did the media and all my liberal friends and colleagues not go crazy when Obama did it?

migration.ucdavis.edu...

It's like how I protested us foreign policy under bush, and then also Obama. Most of my liberal friends, not all, went silent during Obama.

So you base your reaction on what your liberal friends think?

I think we’re getting near the problem.

Um nooooo. Please reread. I stated explicitly that most people seem to only care when the other party is in office, whereas I'm consistent. You obviously didn't read my statement...

So you’re calling out the Trump admin for this, and not blaming it on someone else?

I'm totally open to addressing this, I'm just pointing out that the sudden outrage seems partisan, which pollutes effective solutions and bipartisan dialogue.

Calling out the government for things like this isn’t partisan. It should be common sense.

If you are serious about effective solutions and bipartisan dialogue then don’t let the “other” side dictate how you react to bad things Trump does. If you’re being truly nonpartisan you shouldn’t have a problem calling out Trump without referencing Obama.

Bad is bad, regardless of who does it.

You still aren't getting it or listening. I'm a liberal who is calling you out for what you are projecting on to me. I am saying that both sides need to stop only protesting when the other side is in power....

Please don't respond unless you actually read that and get it.

Again, why was the media and liberals silent on this under Obama. Why outrage now?

I didn't even hear about this sh%t during Obama years.

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Isurrender73


it's not a law it's a policy that can be changed easily.

No, it's not.

let the kids stay with thier parents, ffs.

Do you have proof that these adults are actually the parents of these kids?

both sides need to come together and discuss rationally. i've heard A LOT of republicans say the wall is a dumb idea, and a huge waste of money. but, trump NEEDS this wall so he's blinded by it and nothing gets done.

Just out of curiosity, does rational discussion include referring to laws as "policy that can be changed easily?"

Here is some rational talk--tell me where I'm wrong:

- For the most part, these children are innocent victims to their parents'/guardians'/sponsors' actions

- These adults willfully committed illegal acts when they knowingly ignored the immigration laws of our country

- These adults knew or should have known the reality that they would face once they did said illegal acts

- These adults knowingly endangered the welfare of their children by bringing them along on said illegal acts

- Adults are subjected to human-trafficking laws if they don't have legal documentation that the children accompanying them are legally "theirs"

- The Homeland Security Act of 2002 requires exactly what is happening at the moment (and that is a LAW passed by Congress, not a "policy") (see this and this post for links to laws)

- The conditions of these housing facilities are lightyears beyond the conditions where these people left, negating the claims of "inhumane treatment" that we keep seeing

I'm happy to discuss any and all of these with you if you want to argue against them, but please bring evidence and not opinion.

Obama did not seperate kids from their parents.

Ummm...yes, he did. But Obama didn't do it, the law necessitated it, and contrary to popular belief at the time, the POTUS cannot just pick and choose which laws that he will and will not enforce. (see this post for evidence that Obama did just that, and that it is because it's what the law prescribes.

a reply to: KTemplar

I totally agree. Why must children and families be separated? This serves no purpose except maybe change the minds of the illegals-maybe the USA isn't the dream they were told?

Either way, these are humans who deserve decency-it is very sad that where they are now-in dententions fenced separated from their families-is better than where they came from.

Families, especially in these situations, belong together. This is abhorrent and below USA morals. Why more are not speaking out? Because we have no answers except to ship them out-back to wherever they hailed from-which was probably war, death and destructon. Therein lies our great dilemma-we can't make them slaves to pay for themselves and we can't make Americans pay for them to stay. So, now what? At least let the families cling to each other. That's the only humane thng left to do until this country decides their future.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

As long as there are proper walls with nice white paint (and ideally paintings of clowns laughing) then that's better then?

I thought we were only supposed to build fences not walls?!

That photo there it looks like a cheap way to throw up sturdy barriers real quick, not have to alter the structure, save a lot of time and money. And they can see out. Maximum ventilation (better energy efficiency and so on).

Or maybe plexi glass is better? Sure aint cheaper. Not as well ventilated.

HOW WOULD YOU BUILD THE PLACE???

Dont bother directly responding, as usual.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

yes it is a new policy that stems from a misinterpretation of a scotus ruling.

will not stand long past the new vote

originally posted by: Willtell
With this, we know who is a barbarian and who is a human being.

The trouble is GOP conservative philosophies, which are inhuman and barbaric are proud of their barbarism

They don’t even realize their barbarians.

Here, this link at least is some humane Trump supporters. But they don’t understand Trump and many of his followers are too blind to see the enormity of their crimes and evil acts

Some Prominent Conservatives Call On Trump To Stop Separating Migrant Parents & Children

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I will accept this if someone can explain what they did in these situations. I have searched and I can find nothing. I can find many people saying Obama didn't do this, but I can't find even one saying what the previous administration actually did.

If they did not arrest the parents they were not following the law. If they did, then they had to seperate the children. Unless someone can show me where they arrested the parents and were able to keep them together.

Until someone can explain to me the above I will have to make this assumption.

The Obama administration ignored a law they could have changed. While Trump's administration has decided to follow the law.

I'm not condoning seperating the children. More forethought should have gone into this. Making a point while hurting children is sociopathic behavior and Jesus does not condon such behavior.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

thats because:

And now, as The Daily Caller reports, Democratic Texas Rep. Henry Cuellar is admitting that the Obama administration attempted to cover up the child migrant crisis occurring at the Southern border.

“It was kept very quiet under the Obama Administration. There were large numbers of people coming in. The Obama administration was trying to keep this quiet,” Cuellar told CNN’s Fredricka Whitfield.

What do you think would happen to you if you got caught sneaking into Canada? Guess what, you'd get arrested. Now, what would the Canadian government do if it wasn't one person sneaking in, but 12 million? Do you think they'd just say "Aww, well darn, it might make us look mean to detain them all, so we'll just let them get away with it". No, they'd be arrested and housed in a facility built to handle their numbers.

If someone commits a murder and gets sent to prison, you don't blame the government for separating their children from them, you blame the person who committed the crime. The United States takes in the most legal immigrants of any country in the world. Illegal immigration is just that - ILLEGAL... Just like tax evasion or driving without insurance. There's a reason you get arrested when you do those things, and there's a reason illegal immigration is illegal.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: KTemplar

I totally agree. Why must children and families be separated?

How long are they actually separated for? I have no idea. But how much time money energy resources ENERGY you want to throw at these facilities, how comfortable should we be making this for them, stuff like this ought to be questions going on here too.

And I'll keep stressing ENERGY, as heating & cooling 100 little nice painted rooms versus big 'open' areas like at Home Depot is like night & day. Just the work that would have to go into it alone, would cost more to build than freaking schools. And more energy to run the heating & cooling.

I've actually built a few schools, renovated a few others, to keep to code they'd have to do it all commercial code specs, oh gawd itd take a year or something just to plan one, another year to build it do crazy inspections layers of them ongoing from start to finish.

There's serious potential logistics and clusterF's and injuries and run on costs and coal and on and on that isnt being contemplated.

Which brings me to the the point of comprehension that is drippingly lacking I swear from damn near every thread that goes on around here: WE'RE FREAKING BANKRUPT.


That snip aint a freaking joke, this isnt a effing game!

a reply to: Willtell

From your own link...or did you not read down that far (emphasis mine)?

So far, according to Center for Migration Studies, Trump’s crackdown has been partially enabled by a massive security apparatus developed largely under Bush and Obama since 9/11/. Trump has planned to drastically expand this regime, largely through lucrative private security corporations and bigger budgets for the militarization of border patrols. Authorities plan to house more than 11,000 isolated migrant children in various settings, including regular federal immigration shelters and military bases.

Even under Obama, the detention system roiled with scandals, prompting hundreds of reports and lawsuits alleging sexual, psychological and physical abuse, inhumane conditions for adults and children, denial of access to health care, torture through solitary confinement—in some cases, even forced labor—with the chaos periodically punctuated by revolts and hunger strikes led by detainees.

An investigation by Human Rights First and MALDEF toward the end of the Obama administration found that the Karnes family-detention center had reportedly hidden multiple incidents of abuse, trauma, and sexual exploitation, including “kissing, fondling and/or groping female detainees in front of other detainees, including children.” The ACLU recently documented hundreds of incidents in recent years of detained children suffering physical or sexual violence, or being denied medical care and food.

And you say things like this in this very thread:

originally posted by: Willtell

Obama NEVER did this, you're lying

No, you're lying.

And you say things like this:

originally posted by: Willtell
Obama’s Homeland security chief who presided over this area said THEY DIDN’T DO THIS

Bush didn’t even do it

Unlike you, I research before I post

Its true under Obama they did throw a lot of illegals out, nobody's denying that but they didn't do this

thehill.com...

Come on, man--either have some personal integrity and some intellectual honesty, or just go away so people who really DO research the topic can discuss it without these sideshow comments derailing what could be rational, logical debate.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

They never read past the point in the article that confirms their bias.

And then if they do, they damn sure dont post that part.

originally posted by: trollz
What do you think would happen to you if you got caught sneaking into Canada?

I was curious, so I took a look.

Nearly 100,000 migrants in Canada jailed without charge

Detention: The Canadian government jailed 87,317 migrants without charges between 2006 and 2014. Migrants, including up to 807 children per year, are the only population in Canada who can be jailed on administrative grounds without ever being charged with a specific criminal offense. In 2013 alone, migrant detainees spent a collective total of 503 years behind bars. Many migrants face indefinite detention and some migrants now face mandatory detention.

The Canadian government jailed over 87,317 migrants without charge between 2006-2014, and spent more than a quarter of a billion dollars over five years to detain migrants. Migrants are the only population within Canada who can be jailed simply on administrative grounds without being charged with a specific criminal offense.

In 2014, the United Nations’ High Commissioner for Human Rights’ Working Group on Arbitrary Detention strongly chastised the Canadian immigration detention system.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisssOr back to Canada-who'll feed them horrible food but be very nice aboout it.

We don't need to take this burden on, truly. We have chosen to take it on. We make our own problems.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Excellent point.

Another one I've been trying to make is how are we going to help anyone if we can't help ourselves?

We give money away to many many countries to try and help (mainly in vein), yet out infrastructure is 5+ trillion past repairs.

Yet we're the devil because we put up some fences INSIDE A BUILDING. Literally every developed country has illegal immigrant detention centers. And they're just that, detention centers.

How this got so stirred up is beyond me.