No Two-Way Communications Allowed During National Emergencies Except by Established Groups

No Two-Way Communications Allowed During National Emergencies Except by Established Groups

Not true.

Federal,State emergency and LEO, services ALL have their own frequencies to transmit on.

Civilian frequencies have been divved up as well.

I'm not so sure 'analog' communication is any better than mainstream news, and radio.

Too much disinformation.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

In what scenario does the government have total control and a prepper still care whats illegal? Maybe I'm missing something but imo, the SHTF scenario's that really count would have me disregarding much bigger laws than local broadcasts for communication. IMO, the people with licenses will be the first to have their equipment confiscated. So it would be smart to stash some radios or equipment at someone's house you trust, who is not licensed.

I can understand where you're coming from Dfairlite, in an every man for himself SHTF scenario, ignore the rules if it can give you the edge to survive. But the idea of continuity of government is ingrained in rulings like these. The government will always tighten up on control in a threat to their security. But I get it. When lawlessness prevails, screw the rules because anything goes at that point. You would be at a disadvantage to try to conform to the rules if no one was obeying any of them.

originally posted by: neo96
No Two-Way Communications Allowed During National Emergencies Except by Established Groups

Not true.

Federal,State emergency and LEO, services ALL have their own frequencies to transmit on.

Civilian frequencies have been divved up as well.

I'm not so sure 'analog' communication is any better than mainstream news, and radio.

Too much disinformation.

What you state is certainly true under the normal day to day situation we have at the moment. However, this EO gives the government the power to throw all that out and only allow certain groups the use of the air waves if they believe there is a threat to security or an emergency big enough to pull the plug on the civilians. There wouldn't need to be martial law, just the excuse of a threat with this ruling, a law mandated by a president without the congress or a vote of the people.

As far as disinformation on the analog broadcasts goes, I'm sure that will happen in many cases. No form of communication is safe from propaganda or paranoid delusions, just look at what is on the internet in social networks and forums. Gossip can't be 100% accurate or truthful, so consider the source of what ever information is gleaned from what ever form of communications is used.

If, and it's a big if obviously, a situation is of such magnitude that they, they being the govt., want to shut down all two way communications, you may not want to be broadcasting in any case. Monitoring would be much safer.

I don't pretend to any sort of expertise in these matters, but quieter is safer. ...and there's always the old fashioned ways. Slower yes, but less likely to bring down the bad guys.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Cheers MSB,

I am getting there. The only thing I would say about morse, is that to use it effectively and at a speed comparable to instant messaging, for example, someone would have to write a conversion code, which translates normal communications into morse, then decodes it at the other end. Otherwise both participants in the communication will process that data somewhat more slowly than would be helpful in a dynamic situation.

Of course, I say that having become used to instant communication, but in an emergency situation, the last thing you want is to spend time you could have spent reacting to information, decoding it instead

Can you Please Stop Helping the enemy!
thats the FBI CIA DEA and the rest.
you are telling them How to Stop us!

dont give them all your secrets.
oh I forgot,
thats what This site is all about..

Their is NO free speech.
when it hits the fan.
they will take away any one how speaks against them.

a reply to: buddha

There is no actual way to intercept or interrupt some of the methods we are discussing, without causing worse problems for traditional communications technologies. For example, the sort of baffles you could attempt to use for a laser communications system, would mess up more traditional means quite effectively too, those being the sort of means used by the sorts of people you are worried about.

originally posted by: buddha
Can you Please Stop Helping the enemy!
thats the FBI CIA DEA and the rest.
you are telling them How to Stop us!

dont give them all your secrets.
oh I forgot,
thats what This site is all about..

Their is NO free speech.
when it hits the fan.
they will take away any one how speaks against them.

I can agree with your thoughts on that one. I'm sure they have all kinds of ideas though, we are just scratching the surface. Ultimately better to get these ideas out so we have them too.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

It's one thing to "order" a ban.

It's a totally different thing to try and enforce that ban.

Especially if people aren't using it for anything nefarious but rather to check on the health & welfare of others.

My take? - fuhgedaboutit

Gov't couldn't stop it if it tried...

originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

It's one thing to "order" a ban.

It's a totally different thing to try and enforce that ban.

Especially if people aren't using it for anything nefarious but rather to check on the health & welfare of others.

My take? - fuhgedaboutit

Gov't couldn't stop it if it tried...

We can only hope that the government looks at it that way as well. The potential for abuse is certainly there though.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Cheers MSB,

I am getting there. The only thing I would say about morse, is that to use it effectively and at a speed comparable to instant messaging, for example, someone would have to write a conversion code, which translates normal communications into morse, then decodes it at the other end. Otherwise both participants in the communication will process that data somewhat more slowly than would be helpful in a dynamic situation.

Of course, I say that having become used to instant communication, but in an emergency situation, the last thing you want is to spend time you could have spent reacting to information, decoding it instead

Hello TrueBrit! Good to see you again. I recently realized that I was not getting my recommended daily allowance of "buggered with a red hot poker" class metaphors. It's good to know that I will no longer have to suffer from those withdrawal effects.

Back in the day when Morse code (CW) was still an important part of being an Amateur radio operator, there were some experienced Hams who could "talk" in Morse code like it was a second language. My Elmer (a Ham Sensei of sorts) would never write anything down, other than the other station's call sign. He would lean back in his chair and laugh and nod as if he were speaking to someone sitting right next to him. To me it sounded like a stream of mostly indistinguishable tones. If it became necessary, those skills could be developed again.

Using light for communications also has a long history of use for long distance communications. The Chinese used light signals to communicate between garrisons on the Great Wall. The Continental Army used light to signal their forces during the American Revolution. The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere comes to mind. "One if by land, and two if by sea." During WWII, navy flotillas used powerful signal lights to communicate amongst themselves in order to maintain radio silence.

It's relatively trivial to modify a laser pointer to add a push button switch in order to modulate the light for simple communication. However, it's a good bit more complicated to add digital processing to encode and decode communications signals.

-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

Morse code was arguably the first application of a 'digital' like concept in an all analog world. In fact, one of the fundamental underpinnings of digital development was the concept of morse code. Obviously, there are differences, but the fundamental "On or Off" concept is the same. In morse code duration is important whereas in digital duration is nearly irrelevant, but still a signal is either on, or off ("1" or "0" in the case of digital, and "dot" or "dash" separated by 'offs' in the case of morse code.)

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Cheers MSB,

I am getting there. The only thing I would say about morse, is that to use it effectively and at a speed comparable to instant messaging, for example, someone would have to write a conversion code, which translates normal communications into morse, then decodes it at the other end. Otherwise both participants in the communication will process that data somewhat more slowly than would be helpful in a dynamic situation.

Of course, I say that having become used to instant communication, but in an emergency situation, the last thing you want is to spend time you could have spent reacting to information, decoding it instead

There are two freeware programs you can use to code and decode a Morse code signal. CWget and CWplay.

CWget will decode into text and CWplay, although a learning tool, will encode text. They can be used very simply by having a sound card in your computer and playing the code in a two-way microphone and then decoding your return message with a mic on your computer. It is also possible to wire your two-way into the computer via a user port that will even key your two-way to transmit. I've tried it and it works quite well, although it is slower than messaging. You can also save wave files with prerecorded Morse code to use for different purposes, like making contact or sending a message that needs to be repeated.

CwGet v2.37 A program to decode morse code (CW) via sound card to text. It can work as narrow-band sound DSP-filter also. No additional hardware required — you need only receiver and computer with a sound card. Can integrate with AALog logger. It is a software morse decoder that really work!

CW Get download

CW_PLAYER 4.5.4 Creates Wave files of morse characters. CW_PLAYER is a compact tool that is developed to test your Morse code education and help you practice. You can also use it to learn the Morse alphabet and the commonly used abbreviations.Besides the Morse alphabet, this software grants you with a big list of abbreviations and Q codes. It enables you to listen to the messages and learn their signification without looking for online sources.

CW Player download

I'm kinda new to this. Has anyone addressed how they would even enforce this? During a big enough emergency where this would go into effect, it's not like they're gonna have the time and resources to be triangulating and cracking down on everyone that's using radio.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: DexterRiley

Morse code was arguably the first application of a 'digital' like concept in an all analog world. In fact, one of the fundamental underpinnings of digital development was the concept of morse code. Obviously, there are differences, but the fundamental "On or Off" concept is the same. In morse code duration is important whereas in digital duration is nearly irrelevant, but still a signal is either on, or off ("1" or "0" in the case of digital, and "dot" or "dash" separated by 'offs' in the case of morse code.)

Good points. It is a digital-like messaging system that goes back to the mid 1800's. And if I recall correctly, some of the earliest implementations of the telegraph used a paper tape that was punched by the receiving station's solenoid.

However, just to clarify, what I was referring to was interconnecting a computer and other technology to the transceiving system. A couple of laser pointers can be used to communicate between two or more parties without requiring too much extra baggage. The devices can be concealed easily, and are very portable. Or they can be ditched in a storm drain without losing a very valuable piece of apparatus.

I'm not discounting the advantages of using more advanced technology to enhance the usability and efficiency of Morse code communications. As MichiganSwampBuck has shown, there are several freely available programs and a straightforward means of interconnecting transceivers to the computer.

Another advantage of using CW as a radio communications mode is that it has been used for over a century as a method for communicating over long distances. Given our modern technology, we can build a 20 meter QRP low power rig the size of a pack of cigarettes that can be powered by a solar cell. Throw in some coax and few meters of copper wire, and talk to the farthest reaches of the world.

Regards,
-dex

In my experience, during most emergencies, the Feds are looking for help. Most recent example as the "Cajun Navy" following Hurricane Harvey. They Feds quickly got out of the way because it was obvious they were not equipped. Cajun navy even developed a crowd source app to show cleared areas and which docks to drop survivors off at, so missing persons were id'd and located, even what hospital or refugee area they were taken to.

Kids playing on SW, or just the village idiot with an areal, is a threat to genuine rescue work.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I'm a licensed HAM as well as SKYWARD certified.

During an emergency the repeater is limited to emergency communication but other frequencies have no restriction other than the usual licensing requirements and transmitting protocol.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

how could they enforce this?

unless they flooded the airwaves to overpower home transmitters, and only allow transmissions on allocated frequencies i don't see how this would work.

im not saying they cant do it, just that it would be a HUGE logistical and technological headache.

a reply to: DexterRiley

Oh yes, lighting beacons to signal certain things has a storied history amongst virtually all of the major civilisations we know of, probably a good few we have yet to discover too!

I think the reason I am focused on getting digital processing together for this, is that frankly, morse code takes time to learn, and SHTF scenarios are not really the best time to have to rewire your brain for that kind of work. At those times, you are better of keeping your edges sharpened and your powder dry, so to speak, and thats an awful lot of time in terms of man hours. Therefore, while learning is always great to have, not everyone is going to have it, but everyone will need to be able to use the method, even if they don't know the method. I suppose its similar to the way that my mother does not need to understand how packets of data move through a system, in order to be able to access her e-mail. It would be lovely if she had the free time to examine networks and data flow from a purely abstract and academic perspective, but it isn't going to help her keep junk out of her inbox.

Same thing with Morse. Its a vital tool, but like an axe edge, you don't necessarily need to know how to hone an edge, in order to cut firewood, and sometimes, you just need firewood, now, with no messing about and no waiting for a lesson in bevel maintenance



a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Damn! Thats pretty cool. So you could do something relatively simple then... you take a speaker and a photovoltaic switch, and you marry em up, stick the speaker in front of your mic, and every time your photovoltaic switch is hit with laser light, it creates a tone through the speaker, which delivers it to your mic, which throws it through those programs you mention? Would that work, do you think? I am just spit balling here.

Of course, Morse code is a well known system, so if you use it and want to encrypt the message I suggest using a Vigenere Table.

A Vigenere table consists of the alphabet repeated 26 times in different rows, each alphabet beginning one letter after the other. The alphabet used at each point depends on a repeating keyword or phrase with the same number of letters as the message. Find the keyword letter in the left column, follow the row with the key letter to where it meets the encrypted letter. Follow that column up to the top row to decrypt the letter.

It is unlikely to get decoded using this cypher but it can be cracked. The are plenty of freeware programs and online encoders to use, a quick search will find one for you.