WATCH: Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

How absurd to reduce what I'm saying to your idea that I don't like the idea of gender and biological sex!

I haven't said they're meaningless, or that they should be meaningless.

Your post is merely a blatant strawman again, Ketz.

Boring.

No more so than your own.

originally posted by: PhatalError
a reply to: DBCowboy

Thats the only thing i can think of currently for real “equality” ... although in this case equality is xx= girl, xy= male. Match the 23rd chromosone first, then we can talk about gender equality.

What about xx males and xy females?

Sex-determination System (Wiki)

a reply to: PhatalError

Equal.

Not separate but equal, but equal.


Can't run faster?

Sucks to be you!


In the workforce they don't have women engineers and men engineers separated because women aren't as good at engineering as men.

Why should athletics be any different?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Trans folks are not using steroids simply to win in highschool/collegiate sports.

You're better than to even suggest something that absurd.

I didn't suggest they were doing it to win at sports. That said, they are taking the steroids and I have huge issues with that when you look at the rest of the field. I don't know if you follow sports in any way, but let me present to you this... there are athletes at all levels of competition with legitimate medical issues, issues that predated them even becoming athletes or, in some cases such as swimming, were responsible for getting them involved in the sport to begin with. These athletes are barred from taking many of the medications multiple doctors prescribe to control their medical issues because: fears over "doping."
For example... Amy Van Dyken, US swimmer and multiple gold medalist. A lot of Olympic swimmers are asthma sufferers because they were children who suffered from asthma and allergies. When the other kids were outside in the summer playing, they couldn't be, so their doctors advised the parents to enroll them in local indoor pool activities as the moist air in the pool area and the lack of pollen and dander in the air would allow them to exercise without worsening their conditions. The Olympics, NCAA, and most state high school governing boards have the best asthma inhaler drugs on their banned substances list because of their potential to be abused for athletic gain. That means these athletes are not only competing against the best, they're doing so with lesser drugs in their system simply to be able to breathe.

Or take Miguel Tejada from MLB who had a medical exemption for Adderall for years, being prescribed the drug before it became considered a PED to treat his ADD. MLB finally rejected his exemption and, with no warning, ordered him to a drug test immediately after the exemption expired... mind you, this is one of those "You gotta titrate down from it" drugs which are incredibly dangerous to quit cold turkey. Of course he tested positive and was suspended for 105 games. He retired instead of serving the suspension.

What I'm getting at here is that this nonsense is just another example of one set of special rules for specially dispensated individuals and another set of rules for all the normal folks with the special people receiving undue concessions all in the name of diversity and artificial "equality" (which is a god damned joke to even attempt to call something "equality" when it takes a mountainside of unequal protections and artificial advantages to reach. Actual "equality" exists in absence of those, it's called "succeed on your own merits or fall flat on your ass on your own merits, bottom line... YOU'RE responsible.)

a reply to: DBCowboy

And again, this will be the death of Title IX and women's athletics over time. They want equity and gender/biology aren't things anymore.

That is the logical conclusion.

Hell, we can't even have our own bathrooms.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Here's the solution that the IOC used ... is anyone opposed to this?

100% opposed to it.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

THANK YOU!

I had to sit the pee test in college, and I was taking sports-med prescribed migraine drugs, but some of them were narcotic, and every time, I did the pee test in absolute terror that this time the NCAA was going to come down on me for that even with the sports-med doc having prescribed them.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

And again, this will be the death of Title IX and women's athletics over time. They want equity and gender/biology aren't things anymore.

That is the logical conclusion.

Hell, we can't even have our own bathrooms.

Nope, you can't. Sorry.

We are either all equal or we aren't.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

And again, this will be the death of Title IX and women's athletics over time. They want equity and gender/biology aren't things anymore.

That is the logical conclusion.

Hell, we can't even have our own bathrooms.

Nope, you can't. Sorry.

We are either all equal or we aren't.

Can't wait for the day when we're all barbie doll sexless smooth and reproduce by budding out of our big toes.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

And again, this will be the death of Title IX and women's athletics over time. They want equity and gender/biology aren't things anymore.

That is the logical conclusion.

Hell, we can't even have our own bathrooms.

Nope, you can't. Sorry.

We are either all equal or we aren't.

Can't wait for the day when we're all barbie doll sexless smooth and reproduce by budding out of our big toes.

We don't have courtrooms for woman judges and women lawyers and courtrooms for male judges and male lawyers.


Equal or not.


Sometimes you have to force an issue.

La reply to: Gryphon66

I see your point. Thing is though, training up to that point requires some kind of extra boost. Testosterone enhancers in particular. Biological men’s peak performance will be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than a biological womans. If you go natural. Most performance gain supplements have ingredients that boost your body’s natural testosterone output. Many men on steroids actually require an estrogen blocker because the steroids create so much excess testosterone that it gets converted into estrogen and this creates the “girl boobs” that are commonly associated with steroids. I forget the proper name. Men will ALWAYS have an advantage when it comes to strength. Both burst and endurance. Biological women isually need a test booster just to catch up to biogical men. Testosterone is key. Men create it en masse. Women... not so much.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You know me...i need a rational explanation.

Why are we watching or placing any importance in other people running?

More of us need to get off our own lazy butts and run more; but watching other people run, that just seems like a waist of time.

It's even worse that we are now worried that these other people we are watching run might not win because someone else is better at it than they are.

More than a little surprise that some people are putting these two people above every other girl they competed against with a natural physical advantage that would not be overcome just through training.

People are actually putting the well being of these 2 over every other girl they competed against the entire year... mind boggling.

I guess the concept of fair play got drug outside and shot when I wasn't looking.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Here's the solution that the IOC used ... is anyone opposed to this?

Under the previous IOC guidelines, approved in 2003, athletes who transitioned from male to female or vice versa were required to have reassignment surgery followed by at least two years of hormone therapy in order to be eligible to compete. Now, surgery will no longer be required, with female-to-male transgender athletes eligible to take part in men’s competitions “without restriction”. Meanwhile, male-to-female transgender athletes will need to demonstrate that their testosterone level has been below a certain cutoff point for at least one year before their first competition.

IOC rules transgender athletes can take part in Olympics without surgery

Yes. Because the skeleton of a man is designed for physical strength, and testosterone has no impact on that.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Why are we watching or placing any importance in other people running?

More of us need to get off our own lazy butts and run more; but watching other people run, that just seems like a waist of time.

It's even worse that we are now worried that these other people we are watching run might not win because someone else is better at it than they are.

some are much better at it...

IF we want to talk science, it seems the issues are not as clear as some here want to believe.

For example:

Other physicians, however, say that trans women athletes have less of an edge than most people think. Trans woman Joanna Harper, a medical physicist at Providence Portland Medical Center in Oregon who advised the IOC on its latest transgender policies, published a study in 2015 that found that hormone therapy actually makes male-to-female road runners slower. An avid amateur road racer herself, Harper discovered that she became 12 percent slower in Masters running events after just one year of testosterone suppression.

Harper also studied seven other male-to-female distance runners who had the same experience. While these athletes were able keep their height and bone mass during the beginning of their transitions, all seven lost muscle mass and eventually had lower levels of testosterone than biological women.

Source

originally posted by: Irishhaf
More than a little surprise that some people are putting these two people above every other girl they competed against with a natural physical advantage that would not be overcome just through training.

People are actually putting the well being of these 2 over every other girl they competed against the entire year... mind boggling.

I guess the concept of fair play got drug outside and shot when I wasn't looking.

I dont buy it. Every one of those women likely have a natural physical advantage over me (I'm a man) that would not be overcome no matter how much I train. I trip over my own shadow I'm that clumsy. We are all different, some of us are great athletes some are not. If we worry about how fair everyones natural physical advantages are than we better close up shop on all sports.... cause not all of us have the same natural physical advantages ... and apparently that's not fair.

From the NCAA Guidelines ...

These concerns are based on three assumptions: one, that transgender women are not “real” women and therefore not deserving of an equal competitive opportunity; two, that being born with a male body automatically gives a transgender woman an unfair advantage when competing against non-transgender women; and three, that men might be tempted to pretend to be transgender in order to compete in competition with women. These assumptions are not well founded.

First, the decision to transition from one gender to the other—to align one’s external gender presentation with one’s internal sense of gender identity—is a deeply significant and difficult choice that is made only after careful consideration and for the most compelling of reasons. Gender identity is a core aspect of a person’s identity, and it is just as deep seated, authentic, and real for a transgender person as for others. Male-to-female transgender women fully identify

NCAA Transgender Handbook

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Gryphon66

You know me...i need a rational explanation.

Did my reiteration of my argument serve?