WATCH: Two Transgenders Blow Out Girls In State Meet

a reply to: Gryphon66

You're right it isn't working because now boys can run in the girls division and actual girls don't have a chance.

And this is because progressives change the language. Once upon a time when the law was written, it said gender and everyone understand it to mean birth sex because no one was crazy enough to think we'd be dealing with this. However, now we have a grievance group that has decided to change the lexicon to make gender about your head space and sex about your body.

And conveniently ... the law was written with gender not sex. I think if they had foreseen this, the law would have been written to reflect sex, as in biology.

The only resolution for this I can see is to push it through the courts on the grounds that this allows unfair competitive circumstances for some athletes based on their mental gender giving them physical advantages outside the norm for regular athletes, advantages those athletes would have to pursue illegal means to attempt to secure for themselves to enjoy over the rest of the field.

And the only easy way to solve is to either have a transgender category or tell the transgenders they must remain pre-transition and compete in the category appropriate to their biology.

a reply to: ketsuko


Not all sexes are uniform though.


As a man, I suppose I have an advantage because I'm a man. But if a woman trains, and works harder than me, she will beat me in any race.


As for horse riding? Try timing a jump wrong. Things get really bad in a hurry if you're a guy.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Take a man and woman of roughly average athletic ability, give them equal training and the man will almost certainly win.

a reply to: intrepid

I try to take in cogent information presented in relationship to my stance to answer another off-topic question. You link to a previous post in the thread ... save us some time, what specific part of your position do you feel like I'm ignoring?

I'd wager than I'm probably not ignoring it ... more than likely on this topic we just don't agree. Isn't that ok?

You don't have to get any "finger puppets out" Intrepid. Your position is yours; and I don't agree. No need to be snide.

Sure, I'll answer your questions, since you ask so kindly, but then, it might be better if we addressed our attention elsewhere.

Trans folks get to compete at whatever point the law and the organizing authorities for the given venue allow.

"Claiming to be TG" displays pretty astounding ignorance. As I've linked several times, IOC, NCAA, CT law and regulations make it clear how competitive divisions will be assessed and created.

Male to female trans folks who are transitioning take hormonal treatments that move them toward the standard female ranges for testosterone/estrogen with the requisite physical changes.

As stated above, why should a trans person have to compete in some "separate but unequal" category?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It has always irritated me. Like in golf, women have a different tee-off than men.

That's done because women can't drive the ball as far as men. It's to even the playing field. Equality. If one transitions does that mean they will drive the ball shorter? No. It's based on biology. As it has been and will continue to be.

a reply to: ketsuko

Again, you're generalizing grossly, but to address your apparent concerns, it's not working because a simple division according to birth sex doesn't reflect changes after birth. Therefore, let's base the competitive divisions on something concrete and physical like, taking the IOC and NCAA route, testosterone levels.

Again, you're assuming that all "progressives" are the same ... that's not true.

Your idea as to how to fix it may have merit. It may have to be decided in court.

There are other alternatives besides setting up a trans category or not letting them play. Why won't you even consider the alternatives?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

Take a man and woman of roughly average athletic ability, give them equal training and the man will almost certainly win.

I disagree. Women, because of their physiology, might have advantages in other athletic events.


I thuink we need to eliminate these categories or else we'll end up with so many that it won't even be athletics any more.

a reply to: Gryphon66

There are other alternatives besides setting up a trans category or not letting them play. Why won't you even consider the alternatives?

You are so stuck on me saying they can't play.

I said they can play all they want, but they can't transition and do it. Transitioning means taking substances that are *banned* for other athletes - men or women. If those things are banned, then they are banned. If you are going to take them, then you don't compete. If you don't take them, you compete.

And if you're taking those substances and want to play sports, you find leagues where that stuff doesn't matter which will be your recreational leagues. Most of us compete in rec leagues because we aren't good enough to get into the high functioning arena.

a reply to: intrepid


What if women are better putters?

a reply to: DBCowboy

How much time have you spent with sports?

Go figure.

Just subtract the fruitcakes and whoever was the real girl who came in first was the winner.

The left should probably rethink their arguments of allowing gay men and women to claim to be the opposite sex (as opposed to standard bearer homosexuals/lesbians)

Ie: A man who loves a man is a homosexual, a woman who loves a woman is a lesbian. Trans-whatever is a made up way to have more "neat" labels (they thrive on identity politics, remember)

Outside their weird anti-science beliefs, they have no real identities. Eh, shallow leftists for you. This is how they criticize Trump regardless of what he does. It is all BS. THEY are BS. No real moral compass, no real beliefs (just popular lefty impotent outrage), etc.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: intrepid


What if women are better putters?

Then they win. "Drive for show. Putt for dough." There's no difference in physical ability when putting.

a reply to: ketsuko

Hmm ... well, that's not what I said ...

Here's what you said:

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

And the only easy way to solve is to either have a transgender category or tell the transgenders they must remain pre-transition and compete in the category appropriate to their biology.

You only offer two alternatives ... either they don't play or they only play against other trans kids (which is probably the same thing).

Male to females don't take testosterone, they take estrogen (among other things).

And again, the IOC, NCAA and others based the right to compete on testosterone levels and have taken into account your concerns.

a reply to: JBurns

Dude. You are the first to bring up Trump. You might want to unplug. That one trick pony isn't in this race.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You must have a very different idea of transgender. Are you saying a transgender is only transgender *if* they take steps to transition? If so, doesn't that belie the idea that gender for them is a mental thing and they feel they are a different gender than their body expresses physically?

From my understanding, a transgender should be one whether they transition or not.

You seem to be arguing they only are *if* they transition.

a reply to: ketsuko

My idea of transgender/gender identity is quote clear, actually.

No, I've never said that someone is only transgender if they are transitioning.

Nothing in the post you are responding to could reasonably be construed in that way. What I have said is that laws, rules and regulations, etc. take into account all of your concerns and have dealt with them.

"Doping" in the general meaning of the word is not at play here ... particularly not in the case of male-to-female trans kids.

Have you made yourself familiar with the transitioning status of the two kids in the OP?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DBCowboy

How much time have you spent with sports?

At one time I was very athletic and involved with competative sports.

Look, I started this tongue-in-cheek, but I think this division is getting ridiculous.


As a former athlete, I know that many are more foccused on beating their own best times rather than beatirng the other person.

We should be celebrating the fact that the people in the OP are competing and trying even when faced with a nightmare of social issues.

A question; Is the best WNBA player better than the worst NBA player?

Yes.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're right it isn't working because now boys can run in the girls division and actual girls don't have a chance.

And this is because progressives change the language. Once upon a time when the law was written, it said gender and everyone understand it to mean birth sex because no one was crazy enough to think we'd be dealing with this. However, now we have a grievance group that has decided to change the lexicon to make gender about your head space and sex about your body.

And conveniently ... the law was written with gender not sex. I think if they had foreseen this, the law would have been written to reflect sex, as in biology.

The only resolution for this I can see is to push it through the courts on the grounds that this allows unfair competitive circumstances for some athletes based on their mental gender giving them physical advantages outside the norm for regular athletes, advantages those athletes would have to pursue illegal means to attempt to secure for themselves to enjoy over the rest of the field.

And the only easy way to solve is to either have a transgender category or tell the transgenders they must remain pre-transition and compete in the category appropriate to their biology.

Precisely...you must first DISENFRANCHISE THE LANGUAGE AND VERBOLOGY DRIVEN PRECEDENTS found within the legal framwork....then you remove the words from the dictionarys and vocabulary....we first map out and PROVE how these words were created implemented harnessed and farmed.....then we can show the damages done and illustrate the ONLY truthfull path to humanitarian definition....which is by equally contrasting dual genders....anything else is an OUTLIER and is not impactfull enough deserve a name or identity or to alter anything.Gender-Dyslexia and Gender-Confusion and Gender-Imbalance all fit the bill....no one is telling anyone who to be or how to live but NO ONE IS WILLING TO LET GAMES BE PLAYED WITH HUMANITY AS A WHOLE...and these gender-games are anti-humanitarian in impacts.

originally posted by: JBurns
Go figure.

Just subtract the fruitcakes and whoever was the real girl who came in first was the winner.

The left should probably rethink their arguments of allowing gay men and women to claim to be the opposite sex (as opposed to standard bearer homosexuals/lesbians)

Ie: A man who loves a man is a homosexual, a woman who loves a woman is a lesbian. Trans-whatever is a made up way to have more "neat" labels (they thrive on identity politics, remember)

Outside their weird anti-science beliefs, they have no real identities. Eh, shallow leftists for you. This is how they criticize Trump regardless of what he does. It is all BS. THEY are BS. No real moral compass, no real beliefs (just popular lefty impotent outrage), etc.

Just because your transgender doesnt make you gay or lesbian.Caitlyn Jenner for example likes females so oddly disnt become a lesbian until after transitioning. So identity politics had nothing to do with it your just wrong.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

SARCASM BUTTON ON...
This is soooo wonderful for those girls',born with a vagina,to be beaten
by a "girl",born with a penis.Enlightenment,equality and gender neutrality
is soooo refreshing in this day and age.
SARCASM BUTTON OFF...