Dozens killed in Gaza as US Embassy opens in Jerusalem

Cripes. If this was any other country than Israel ya'll would be up in arms about it. You wouldn't even have to look far. See Syria.

a reply to: jaymp


Illegally occupied since 597? They were conquered by Babylon. By that logic, would not every piece of land belonging to nations or people that were conquered throughout history also be considered illegally occupied?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha


Today, there is almost nothing left of Palestine. Looks like it's the Israelis who believe that the Palestinians have no right to exist.

All that area was once a part of the Ottoman empire who lost in WWI. After losing the war France and England split up the area into countries, so what we have is EU creating the countries in the first place, so it wasn't like a 1000 years of boundaries or even ones created by the those that actually live there. Trans-Jordan was a part of so called Palestine, so if the refugees in the West Bank just look West across the river that was all Palestine too. Also good chunks of other countries were once Palestine, but it is hard to map out since the people were nomadic in nature anyways.

To suggest the West Bank is all that is left of Palestine is a very politically motivated statement and not accurate. The interesting part is why have they not expanded across the river even an inch into Jordan, which is also Palestine?

Gaza was once under Egypt's rule for a long time and Egypt walled them off, not allowing them to go into Egypt at any point. All the countries in the Middle East see Gaza and West Bank as just refugee camps with no desires to support outside of using them as political pawns against Israel, so yes their situation sucks, but as long as they fight the only group willing to help them they will not get better.

As my last statement, the Ottoman empire lost a war and lost much of the Middle East in the process to have EU do with it what they will. That is how wars go, the victor wins to do what they will in their best interest. Israel has won a 1/2 dozen wars, so it is safe to say they can do what is in their best interest too. They even too chunks of Egypt's oil fields and other wide areas of land by winning wars, just to give it back, so I don't see Israel as an expanding empire...all 6 million of them.

a reply to: Xtrozero

To suggest the West Bank is all that is left of Palestine is a very politically motivated statement and not accurate.

I didn't "suggest" anything. I posted accurate maps, not antedated with propaganda, depicting different time periods up to now. I did so in rebut to the poster who claimed that the UN awarded Jerusalem to Israel on 1947. They didn't.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

I didn't "suggest" anything. I posted accurate maps, not antedated with propaganda, depicting different time periods up to now. I did so in rebut to the poster who claimed that the UN awarded Jerusalem to Israel on 1947. They didn't.

Those maps are propaganda silly....lol And to say there is nothing left of Palestine is also politically laced propaganda. You also didn't answer my question...

"The interesting part is why have they not expanded across the river even an inch into Jordan, which is also Palestine? "

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: PaddyInf
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Absolutely it is a stupid thing to bring a baby to this sort of thing and in no way am i condoning the acts of the Palestinians. However does any of what you say justify the unloading of thousands of rounds into a crowd armed with stones, particularly a crowd with young children in it?

Using human shields in the form of babies for your military attack is a war crime, defending your sovereign border is not.

So you condone killing babies now, congratulations on reaching a new low....

No I don't condone Palestinian terrorists killing babies as human shields.

I know you condone the idf killing Palestinian babies....

Nope you condone Palestinians bringing babies for human shields. You are the one using dead baby blood in your rhetoric against Israel.

a reply to: Xtrozero


Maps I posted:





No propaganda!

Maps posted by MaxMech





Loaded with propaganda!

a reply to: Sookiechacha

OK
So why was it givin to the jews in the 40's? Where did the jews come from then? Were they displaced? Where were the palestinians at that time? Where did they come from? Were they displaced?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Nope you condone Palestinians bringing babies for human shields.

Human shields? What human shield? The baby died from tear gas asphyxiation. Was the Hamas plot to have babies breath up all the toxic air, so that the adults, now breathing clean air, could storm the border fence?

Nearly 3000 people were shot, while 50 to 75 meters away from the border fence, on their side of the border, by IDF snipers, who shot blindly through clouds of black smoke from the tyres that they lit on fire before the Palestinians could!

a reply to: howtonhawky

So why was it givin to the jews in the 40's? Where did the jews come from then? Were they displaced?

The Jews were displaced (again) in 70 BC, during the Siege of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by Rome. They were not given "Jerusalem" in 1947, but they were given territory.

Where were the palestinians at that time? Where did they come from?

Palestine was the name given to the "Arab State" territory. They were the Arabs that were already living there, before, during and after the Ottoman Empire. Do you think that they should have been displaced, like the Muslims in India that were sent to Pakistan?

en.wikipedia.org...

History is tedious.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

No propaganda!

The propaganda is the whole Palestine part of this...they really didn't have lands ever and were nomadic across a good portion of the Middle East.

Lets try again...why do you not answer my question that I directly put to you in your replies?

"The interesting part is why have they not expanded across the river even an inch into Jordan, which is also Palestine? "

It seems if the Palestine got screwed it was by EU as they created all the countries, or do think they were most generous to give them a whopping 80x30 mile country called Palestine if that was their intent.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha


Palestine was the name given to the "Arab State" territory. They were the Arabs that were already living there, before, during and after the Ottoman Empire. Do you think that they should have been displaced, like the Muslims in India that were sent to Pakistan?

But we are talking a huge chunk of the Middle east...How is it that Jordan, big chunk of Egypt, and Syria are not part of a Palestine country? It seems everyone is focused on the 80X30 mile piece of land and 1000s of sq miles out side of that doesn't matter. Could Jordan say here is 80X30 across the river it is yours...lol

a reply to: Xtrozero

Lets try again...why do you not answer my question that I directly put to you in your replies?

My answer... I don't know, I don't care, and the question seems off topic and some type off diversion to the discussion about aprox 60 Palestinian people killed and aprox 2700 people shot by IDF snipers for protesting at the border.

Again, I posted the maps to counter the claim that the UN awarded Jerusalem to Israel in 1947. They did not. The international community still doesn't recognize Jerusalem as being Israel's capital. It's a HUGE deal that Trump is doing it now.

The propaganda is the whole Palestine part of this...they really didn't have lands ever and were nomadic across a good portion of the Middle East.

Palestine isn't a "they" its a territory (Arab State) that was created in 1947 by the UN. It wasn't unclaimed land that Israel just happened to move into!

For History's sake, a little info on the 'why' of it for those interested.

Before Zionism: The shared life of Jews and Palestinians. Following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire during the First World War, both the Zionist movement and the Palestinian national movement began trying to take control of that identity and define the people of the land as either Jewish Zionists or Palestinian Arabs. There were those who called for unity, such as Jerusalem Mayor Raghib al-Nashashibi, who wanted not to speak of Arabs and Jews, but of Palestinians.

972mag.com...
This is a long read.

This is just a portion of the entire commentary. Commentary from Middle East Policy Council The Original “No”: Why the Arabs Rejected Zionism, and Why It Matters Natasha Gill Dr. Gill is a research associate at Barnard College and a former professor of conflict studies at The New School University. She is the founder and director of TRACK4, which runs negotiation simulations for diplomats, mediators, journalists, policy makers, students and community leaders.

June 19, 2013 A viable peace process does not require either party to embrace or even recognize the legitimacy of the other’s narrative. It requires that both have an informed and non-reductionist understanding of what this narrative consists of, come to terms with the fact that it cannot be wished away, and recognize that elements of it will make their way to the negotiating table and have to be addressed. What confusion would ensue all the world over if this principle on which the Jews base their “legitimate” claim were carried out in other parts of the world! What migrations of nations must follow!

The Spaniards in Spain would have to make room for the Arabs and Moors who conquered and ruled their country for over 700 years… — Palestine Arab Delegation, Observations on the High Commissioner’s Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine during the period 1st July 1920 – 30th June 1921 The Palestinian Arabs said No to the idea that in the 20th century a people who last lived in Palestine in large numbers over 2000 years ago could claim, on the basis of a religious text, rights to the land where the current inhabitants had been living for a millennium and a half.

They did not base their rejection on a denial of Jewish historical and religious ties to the Holy Land. Rather, they said No to the idea that highly secularized Jews arriving from Europe, who seemed to abjure religious life, manners and practices, could use the Bible to support a political project of a Jewish state in an already populated and settled land.

www.quora.com...

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Hi Bothel--

Don't forget the old axiom: 'Yisro'el fears not the gun nor the tank. They fear only one thing: the Video Camera.'

Truer words were never spoken.

a reply to: proteus33

most of our presidents from then till Trump were silly limp penis morons.

Some were even self proclaimed zionists like Al Billionaire global warming inciter Gore.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Nope you condone Palestinians bringing babies for human shields.

Human shields? What human shield? The baby died from tear gas asphyxiation. Was the Hamas plot to have babies breath up all the toxic air, so that the adults, now breathing clean air, could storm the border fence?

Nearly 3000 people were shot, while 50 to 75 meters away from the border fence, on their side of the border, by IDF snipers, who shot blindly through clouds of black smoke from the tyres that they lit on fire before the Palestinians could!

The Palestinian plan was to bring babies up to the front lines so they would die and you seem all for it.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha



Palestine isn't a "they" its a territory (Arab State) that was created in 1947 by the UN. It wasn't unclaimed land that Israel just happened to move into!

The UN created and it instantly caused a war that the Jews won and so secured Israel. The reason this sounds familiar is just about every country was made with a war...

My point is Jordan, parts of Egypt and Syria are as much of this Palestine territory as is the West Bank, but there is no talk about the refugees having access to those areas too, not even one foot to the west of the West Bank. Israel won the UN didn't push back or attack...I guess Israel right as a country stands as well as any right?

a reply to: Xtrozero

I guess Israel right as a country stands as well as any right?

I guess Russia has the right to invade occupy Ukraine?

a reply to: Sigismundus

Bothel.. ?

Neither ever did much good, for anyone. The more abuse, the greater the pain from both sides of the river. Personally i'm against both the use of video and abuse.

True words, I agree.