The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

neutronflux You keep claiming Thermite would not rip apart steel.

Thermite ripped through the steel and left a hole.



WTC7 steel sample FEMA had.

a reply to: Jesushere


You

Thermate is thermite, it just contains Sulphur.

The junk science paper you keep referring to
“Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe”
benthamopen.com...

Does not mention thermate, only showed the presence of sulfur in half the red chip composition charts.

And had this to say about sulfur.

benthamopen.com...
Lesser amounts of other potentially reactive elements are sometimes present, such as potassium, sulfur, lead, barium and copper.

Harrit’s paper only mentions thermite or super thermite.

Do you have another junk science paper that specifically mentions thermate?

I like how conspiracists keep the delusion alive by making crap up as they face reality.

And you are quoting individuals that believe fire related collapse? So we should believe fire related collapse.

By the way, nice pictures you posted of steel burnt through. Not ripped apart. You have to disregard basic facts to create your false arguments.

And again, the items you totally refuse to acknowledge...

A 24 hour fire is not the same as smoldering in a pile for up to three months. Allowing chemicals to leach into water, then having the water evaporated to condense the chemicals for caustic attacks.

How do we know the guy even came close to using representative plastics and drywall? The PVC piping, building materials, office furniture, and office equipment.

Then you did not list batteries from emergency lighting that would have been wide spread through the buildings, large industrial battery supplies for backups to servers and other computers, batteries from cell phones, batteries from cordless phones, Freon from AC units. Seems like the individual purposely left out the most reactive and toxic chemicals on purpose.

What other false arguments do you have.

Again, how does thermite evaporate steel. Steel must get to temperatures over 5000F to evaporate. Pleaec cite the thermal imaging you invoke for temperatures above 5000F.

Your dedication to falsehoods and pseudoscience is appalling.

You

To melt, evaporate, rip apart, disappear steel you need a temp in excess of 1300c +

False as the day is long.

The steel didn’t evaporate at the WTC.

Please post pictures and video of “Rip apart” steel from the WTC

Please post pictures or video of partially melted, or melted columns from the WTC.

The core columns from the twin towers fell last after the complete collapse of the floor systems.

Thermite does not evaporate steel. It makes molten iron and aluminum oxide.

1300c does not do crap to steel other than make it lose strength, glow, and expand.

The steel would not “evaporate” until 5000F. There is no proof of evaporated steel condensing back into steel crystals. No reported burns from a cloud with a temp of 5000F floating around.

The steel you are referring to underwent chemical attacks from the toxic soup of the pile. The chemicals attacks are not by chemicals found in the composition of thermite. The chemical attacks can occur at room temperatures, and were only accelerated by the conditions of the WTC pile.

Please list the special corrosion that could only take place at 1300C plus?

Like chloride stress corrosion cracking? Pitting corrosion? Galvanic corrosion?

What is this magical corrosion you keep referring to, and what is its chemical equation?

Again. Thermite does not contain corrosive chemicals.

Where did NIST, or the other reports that conclude fire related WTC collapse, ever state the cause was from melted steel?

Do you have any video or photos of columns cut by thermite at the WTC? Funny the core columns of the towers fell at rates slower than the floor systems.

To put it more simply. You are attributing corrosions that have noting to do with the iron oxide and aluminum found in thermite.
Corrosions that have noting to do with a thermite reaction. You say heat caused corrosions that can only be caused by chemicals, and the only thing heat can do is accelerate the reactions of those chemicals.

Any more totally false rants by you based on pseudoscience?

How would anyone know the state of the steel for you to make the false claim it evaporated if your claim it was all sent to China with no examination was true?

Falsehoods, pseudoscience, and contradictions are all you have to offer?

a reply to: Jesushere

neutronflux You keep claiming Thermite would not rip apart steel.

Too bad the expert investigators don't believe in thermite.

After 17 years you need to give up on wacky theories.

a reply to: Jesushere

And you still have not addressed how relatively slow burning and inconsistent burning thermite could be used in a sophisticated split second timed supposed floor to floor CD? CD systems that would have had to maintain thier integrity through jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires. For the twin towers, start the collapse at the areas of the jet impacts and most building damage to initiate the collapse by buckling the outer columns with no visible sparks or explosion?

a reply to: Jesushere

I see corroded steel from chemical attacks with no signs of slag or other characteristics of being burnt by thermite for the posted WTC 7 steel sample you claimed was all shipped to China?

Like to post any more examples of your contradictions and falsehoods?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere


You

Thermate is thermite, it just contains Sulphur.

The junk science paper you keep referring to
“Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe”
benthamopen.com...

Does not mention thermate, only showed the presence of sulfur in half the red chip composition charts.

And had this to say about sulfur.

benthamopen.com...
Lesser amounts of other potentially reactive elements are sometimes present, such as potassium, sulfur, lead, barium and copper.

Harrit’s paper only mentions thermite or super thermite.

Do you have another junk science paper that specifically mentions thermate?

I lke how conspiracists keep the delusion alive by making crap up as they face reality.

And you are quoting individuals that believe fire related collapse? So we should believe fire related collapse.

By the way, nice pictures you posted of steel burnt through. Not ripped apart. You have to disregard basic facts to create your false arguments.

And again, the items you total refuse to acknowledge...

A 24 hour fire is not the same as smoldering in a pile for up to three months. Allowing chemicals to leach into water, then having the water evaporated to condense the chemicals for caustic attacks.

How do we know the guy even came close to using representative plastics and drywall? The PVC piping, building materials, office furniture, and office equipment.

Then you did not list batteries from emergency lighting that would have been wide spread through the buildings, large industrial battery supplies for backups to servers and other computers, batteries from cell phones, batteries from cordless phones, Freon from AC units. Seems like the individual purposely left out the most reactive and toxic chemicals on purpose.

What other false arguments do you have.

Again, how does thermite evaporate steel. Steel must get to temperatures over 5000F to evaporate. Pleaec cite the thermal imaging you invoke for temperatures above 5000F.

Your dedication to falsehoods and pseudoscience is appalling.

You

To melt, evaporate, rip apart, disappear steel you need a temp in excess of 1300c +

False as the day is long.

The steel didn’t evaporate at the WTC.

Please post pictures and video of “Rip apart” steel from the WTC

Please post pictures or video of partially melted, or melted columns from the WTC.

The core columns from the twin towers fell last after the complete collapse of the floor systems.

Thermite does not evaporate steel. It makes molten iron and aluminum oxide.

1300c does not do crap to steel other than make it lose strength, glow, and expand.

The steel would not “evaporate” until 5000F. There is no proof of evaporated steel condensing back into steel crystals. No reported burns from a cloud with a temp of 5000F floating around.

The steel you are referring to underwent chemical attacks from the toxic soup of the pile. The chemicals attacks are not by chemicals found in the composition of thermite. The chemical attacks can occur at room temperatures, and were only accelerated by the conditions of the WTC pile.

Please list the special corrosion that could only take place at 1300C plus?

Like chloride stress corrosion cracking? Pitting corrosion? Galvanic corrosion?

What is this magical corrosion you keep referring to, and what is its chemical equation?

Again. Thermite does not contain corrosive chemicals.

Where did NIST, or the other reports that conclude fire related WTC collapse, ever state the cause was from melted steel?

Do you have any video or photos of columns cut by thermite at the WTC? Funny the core columns of the towers fell at rates slower than the floor systems.

To put it more simply. You are attributing corrosions that have noting to do with the iron oxide and aluminum found in thermite.
Corrosions that have noting to do with a thermite reaction. You say heat caused corrosions that can only be caused by chemicals, and the only thing heat can do is accelerate the reactions of those chemicals.

Any more totally false rants by you based on pseudoscience?

How would anyone know the state of the steel for you to make the false claim it evaporated if your claim it was all sent to China with no examination was true?

Falsehoods, pseudoscience, and contradictions are all you have to offer?

You can add sulphur to the thermite mix it doesn't matter result is the same. Sulphur, in theory, is added in to reduce the time+heat it takes to arrive at the melting point of steel You have this false belief nano-thermite cannot be mixed with sulphur.

Corrosion was a theory FEMA mused over. They actually recommended further investigation into it to find out what caused it.

FEMA has no idea if this was the result of corrosion they could not even identify the rate needed for this to occur. They have no idea what truly caused this they just throwing around ideas. But it obvious Corrosion did not melt the steel that just a silly idea and can not be achieved in a few hours. You not going to melt steel below 1300c anyhow it joke to think Sulphar+ 400c office fire melts steel.

As I have shown you already thermite rips through steel and leaves holes, are you going to deny that seriously? There no evidence sulphur batteries plastics whatever else you want to add in can melt steel. It great musing over this but are you, Skeptics, actually going to verify anything you say? Skeptic 9/11 community is a joke. Oystein got his ass handed to him in a debate with Jay Howard you got that link he left that debate and never replied back.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

And you still have not addressed how relatively slow burning and inconsistent burning thermite could be used in a sophisticated split second timed supposed floor to floor CD? CD systems that would have had to maintain thier integrity through jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires. For the twin towers, start the collapse at the areas of the jet impacts and most building damage to initiate the collapse by buckling the outer columns with no visible sparks or explosion?

Don't you believe NIST one girder knocking off its seat caused a failure on other floors? What if the theory sound but the explanation is different. The seat melted away and that's why the girder collapsed? It would explain why the shear bolts, lateral plate and fasteners were irrelevant.

Regarding the Twin Tower NIST openly admits they did could not provide a full explanation for the collapse. They could not get a handle on what occurred once it started to fall.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Jesushere

neutronflux You keep claiming Thermite would not rip apart steel.

Too bad the expert investigators don't believe in thermite.

After 17 years you need to give up on wacky theories.

There, not wacky theories it fits the evidence found. You guys denying evidence is not helping. Skeptics are only helping the people who brought down WTC7 to get away with this.

originally posted by: Jesushere

Regarding the Twin Tower NIST openly admits they did could not provide a full explanation for the collapse. They could not get a handle on what occurred once it started to fall.

NIST did explain it. It was cascade failure of the truss seats.

This is a truss seat:



They are located here:



After collapse initiation the floors impacted one upon the next, overloading the truss seat welded connection:



To the columns:




No thermite necessary. AND:




It fits the evidence found.

a reply to: Jesushere

You

You can add sulphur to the thermite mix it doesn't matter result is the same. Sulphur, in theory

Again
The junk science paper you keep referring to
“Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe”
benthamopen.com...

Does not mention thermate, only showed the presence of sulfur in half the red chip composition charts.

The paper you base your arguments on was fraudulently peer reviewed, holds no analysis that would conclude or disprove thermite in anyway, and never made claims of thermite with sulfur you label thermate.

Your whole argument is BS.

a reply to: Jesushere

Can you post any pictures from the WTC of steel columns cut by thermite that supposedly had to cut columns floor by floor to cause the witnessed rates of collapse? Especially in the context the twin towers’ columns remained standing after the complete collapse of their floor systems?

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jesushere

Regarding the Twin Tower NIST openly admits they did could not provide a full explanation for the collapse. They could not get a handle on what occurred once it started to fall.

NIST did explain it. It was cascade failure of the truss seats.

This is a truss seat:

They are located here:

After collapse initiation the floors impacted one upon the next, overloading the truss seat welded connection:

To the columns:

No thermite necessary. AND:




It fits the evidence found.

Where did you get those pictures from?

This poster, juesehere, said:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The steel was hauled away to China and even the senators during a Senate hearing about 9/11 described it as a crime.

Conspiracists never mentioned it was identified, photographed, sampled, analyzed, and documented.

Surely a conspiracist would not create a blatantly false narrative out of nothing but innuendo.

And jursehere is acting like the corrosion the person is invoking was widespread, and on ever piece of steel? Is that another argument out of innuendo with no real bases?

originally posted by: Jesushere

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Jesushere

neutronflux You keep claiming Thermite would not rip apart steel.

Too bad the expert investigators don't believe in thermite.

After 17 years you need to give up on wacky theories.

There, not wacky theories it fits the evidence found. You guys denying evidence is not helping. Skeptics are only helping the people who brought down WTC7 to get away with this.

Any you cannot cite any WTC video, WTC photos, or sampled piece of WTC steel to produce evidence of any columns cut by thermite? Not one? Yet, individuals keep producing documented conditions of the WTC steel that was shipped off to China with no examination?

a reply to: Jesushere

Funny, the below report for the twin towers mentions nothing about floor connections being cut by thermite?

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
Failure of connections, as a result of overloading, occurred within the heat-affected zone of the base metals

app.aws.org...

Summary

Analysis of the connections supporting the composite floor system of the WTC towers showed that at and below the im- pact floors, the greater majority (above 90%) of the floor truss connections were either bent downward or completely re- moved from the exterior column. This was probably related to the overloading of the floors below the impact region after col- lapse initiation. Depending upon weld joint geometry, detachment of the main load-bearing seats was a result of either fracture in the heat affected zone of the base material (standoff plate detached from spandrel) or through the weld metal (seat angle detached from standoff plate). Failure in both cases was assumed to be a result of a shear mechanism as a result of overloading from floors above impacting those below. There did not appear to be a significant change in distribution of failure modes of the floor truss connections when comparing those connections inside vs. outside of the impact region or those ex- posed to pre-collapse fires and those that were not.

a reply to: Jesushere

More analysis of the towers’ welds? No mention of being cut by thermite?

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org...

Summary
Analysis of intact submerged arc welds from the exterior columns of the WTC tow- ers indicated that appropriate welding pro- cedures and joining materials were used during construction. Further, the failure mode of the joints as a result of the aircraft impact was expected. Splitting of the exte- rior columns into the four individual plates occurred by fracture through the HAZ as this region had a lower cross-sectional area than the weld throat. Additionally, the heat of welding likely degraded the mechanical properties (ductility, hardness) of the mate- rial in the HAZ resulting in the crack prop- agating solely within this feature. Based upon the localized ductility of the fracture and the lack of web plate thinning, failure of the welds absorbed very little of the energy of aircraft impact.

Serious question neutronflux have you no complaints about this image?

NIST depiction of the North face collapse.


Do you care NIST removed shear studs and plates to get their collapse to work?

Shear studs along the girder on column 79. NIST left that out.


See the plate NIST removed that and left it out. Have you any thoughts on that?


Let's not ignore that FEMA said the steel beam melted due to high temp. What temp do you think the fire would need to be to melt steel?

waypastvne I get to you eventually but for now, I just want to stay on WTC7 collapse.

originally posted by: Jesushere
I just want to stay on WTC7 collapse.

Wise move.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Jesushere

neutronflux You keep claiming Thermite would not rip apart steel.

Too bad the expert investigators don't believe in thermite.

After 17 years you need to give up on wacky theories.

There, not wacky theories it fits the evidence found. You guys denying evidence is not helping. Skeptics are only helping the people who brought down WTC7 to get away with this.

Any you cannot cite any WTC video, WTC photos, or sampled piece of WTC steel to produce evidence of any columns cut by thermite? Not one? Yet, individuals keep producing documented conditions of the WTC steel that was shipped off to China with no examination?

FEMA steel sample is evidence the steel got ripped up by a thermite reaction. FEMA clearly stated melting occurred and was due to high temp.

They estimated the steel would need to be heated up to 1000c with the sulphur, to have caused but it guessing work

Are you claiming WTC7 had fires of 1000 celsius heat? If you are can you provide proof?

waypastvne I get to you but I don't want to be jumping around. If WTC7 was brought down deliberately then very likely the twin towers were taken down too.