Homeopath “treated” 4-yr-old boy’s behavior problems with saliva from rabid dog

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

The ignorance demonstrated here is entirely yours.

Scenario 1.
If I give my kid 5 ml of liquid paracetamol, but because he doesn't like the taste I mix it in 100 ml of chocolate milk, which he drinks. I have diluted the paracetamol but he still takes 5 ml of paracetamol

Scenario 2.

I dilute the 5 ml in 5,000,000 litres of chocolate milk the give him 100 ml from the mix.

Do you think these are the same thing?

They have the similarities of both having the chemical make up of chocolate milk and paracetamol at different dilution rates.

Neither are homeopathy by definition.


Dilution is not the same as extinction.

Technically you can keep cutting something in half forever.

a reply to: howtonhawky

From the article in the Op. Even the homeopath in question admits it contains no active ingredient.

Though she admitted that “there’s no common consensus about how the remedies work,” she continued to claim that it was effective and safe. She added that the saliva was so diluted that it wouldn’t contain any trace of rabies virus

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

The ignorance demonstrated here is entirely yours.

Scenario 1.
If I give my kid 5 ml of liquid paracetamol, but because he doesn't like the taste I mix it in 100 ml of chocolate milk, which he drinks. I have diluted the paracetamol but he still takes 5 ml of paracetamol

Scenario 2.

I dilute the 5 ml in 5,000,000 litres of chocolate milk the give him 100 ml from the mix.

Do you think these are the same thing?

They have the similarities of both having the chemical make up of chocolate milk and paracetamol at different dilution rates.

Neither are homeopathy by definition.


Dilution is not the same as extinction.

Technically you can keep cutting something in half forever.

Your right not the same as homeopathy as a homeopathic 'remedy' had even less active ingredient, often zero.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: howtonhawky

From the article in the Op. Even the homeopath in question admits it contains no active ingredient.

Though she admitted that “there’s no common consensus about how the remedies work,” she continued to claim that it was effective and safe. She added that the saliva was so diluted that it wouldn’t contain any trace of rabies virus

Then she is even more of a fool than previously suspected.

It's transmitted through the saliva a few days before death when the animal "sheds" the virus. Rabies is not transmitted through the blood, urine or feces of an infected animal, nor is it spread airborne through the open environment.Sep 26, 2013
Understanding Rabies : The Humane Society of the United States
www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/facts/rabies.html



Perhaps you missed the word of the day in my first post here today.
nos·ode
ˈnäsōd/Submit
noun
plural noun: nosodes
(in homeopathy) a preparation of substances secreted in the course of a disease, used in the treatment of that disease.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: howtonhawky

From the article in the Op. Even the homeopath in question admits it contains no active ingredient.

Though she admitted that “there’s no common consensus about how the remedies work,” she continued to claim that it was effective and safe. She added that the saliva was so diluted that it wouldn’t contain any trace of rabies virus

Then she is even more of a fool than previously suspected.

It's transmitted through the saliva a few days before death when the animal "sheds" the virus. Rabies is not transmitted through the blood, urine or feces of an infected animal, nor is it spread airborne through the open environment.Sep 26, 2013
Understanding Rabies : The Humane Society of the United States
www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/facts/rabies.html



Perhaps you missed the word of the day in my first post here today.
nos·ode
ˈnäsōd/Submit
noun
plural noun: nosodes
(in homeopathy) a preparation of substances secreted in the course of a disease, used in the treatment of that disease.

Agree she is a fool for believing in homeopathy. Assume that is what you meant

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

The ignorance demonstrated here is entirely yours.

Scenario 1.
If I give my kid 5 ml of liquid paracetamol, but because he doesn't like the taste I mix it in 100 ml of chocolate milk, which he drinks. I have diluted the paracetamol but he still takes 5 ml of paracetamol

Scenario 2.

I dilute the 5 ml in 5,000,000 litres of chocolate milk the give him 100 ml from the mix.

Do you think these are the same thing?

They have the similarities of both having the chemical make up of chocolate milk and paracetamol at different dilution rates.

Neither are homeopathy by definition.


Dilution is not the same as extinction.

Technically you can keep cutting something in half forever.

Your right not the same as homeopathy as a homeopathic 'remedy' had even less active ingredient, often zero.

We are close to agreeing but you just conflated two versions of homeopathy.

Either it involves fooling someone by lying about the presence of something or it involves the presence of something.

Perhaps it is both?

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

The ignorance demonstrated here is entirely yours.

Scenario 1.
If I give my kid 5 ml of liquid paracetamol, but because he doesn't like the taste I mix it in 100 ml of chocolate milk, which he drinks. I have diluted the paracetamol but he still takes 5 ml of paracetamol

Scenario 2.

I dilute the 5 ml in 5,000,000 litres of chocolate milk the give him 100 ml from the mix.

Do you think these are the same thing?

They have the similarities of both having the chemical make up of chocolate milk and paracetamol at different dilution rates.

Neither are homeopathy by definition.


Dilution is not the same as extinction.

Technically you can keep cutting something in half forever.

Your right not the same as homeopathy as a homeopathic 'remedy' had even less active ingredient, often zero.

We are close to agreeing but you just conflated two versions of homeopathy.

Either it involves fooling someone by lying about the presence of something or it involves the presence of something.

Perhaps it is both?

No. Its pretending something works when it doesn't and there is no plausible way it could.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

The ignorance demonstrated here is entirely yours.

Scenario 1.
If I give my kid 5 ml of liquid paracetamol, but because he doesn't like the taste I mix it in 100 ml of chocolate milk, which he drinks. I have diluted the paracetamol but he still takes 5 ml of paracetamol

Scenario 2.

I dilute the 5 ml in 5,000,000 litres of chocolate milk the give him 100 ml from the mix.

Do you think these are the same thing?

They have the similarities of both having the chemical make up of chocolate milk and paracetamol at different dilution rates.

Neither are homeopathy by definition.


Dilution is not the same as extinction.

Technically you can keep cutting something in half forever.

Your right not the same as homeopathy as a homeopathic 'remedy' had even less active ingredient, often zero.

We are close to agreeing but you just conflated two versions of homeopathy.

Either it involves fooling someone by lying about the presence of something or it involves the presence of something.

Perhaps it is both?

No. Its pretending something works when it doesn't and there is no plausible way it could.

Ok then...

Just more proof that flu vaccines are homeopathy.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
People come in the thread and claim that homeopathy is 100% placebo.

In a thread that is about giving a kid a live rabies virus and they want to claim it is a placebo and continue to argue with facts by claiming my personal ignorance.

You should go reread the OP source:

Though she admitted that “there’s no common consensus about how the remedies work,” she continued to claim that it was effective and safe. She added that the saliva was so diluted that it wouldn’t contain any trace of rabies virus.

a reply to: howtonhawky

No, a weak/attenuated virus is not a diluted virus.

Dead viruses are also not diluted viruses.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: howtonhawky

No, a weak/attenuated virus is not a diluted virus.

Dead viruses are also not diluted viruses.

round and round we go.

The nasal spray flu vaccine does contain live viruses. However, the viruses are attenuated (weakened), and therefore cannot cause flu illness. The weakened viruses are cold-adapted, which means they are designed to only cause infection at the cooler temperatures found within the nose.Oct 30, 2017
Key Facts About Seasonal Flu Vaccine | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
www.cdc.gov...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: howtonhawky
People come in the thread and claim that homeopathy is 100% placebo.

In a thread that is about giving a kid a live rabies virus and they want to claim it is a placebo and continue to argue with facts by claiming my personal ignorance.

You should go reread the OP source:

Though she admitted that “there’s no common consensus about how the remedies work,” she continued to claim that it was effective and safe. She added that the saliva was so diluted that it wouldn’t contain any trace of rabies virus.

You are the one pointing to the need for scientific journals and such so then what makes you believe that some lady at home who thinks it is a bright idea to give her child rabid saliva from a dog would know the level of rabidity?

Now if it was done in some sort of laboratory setting with proper test equipment then one could believe the claim.

Going by your logic if we take it on face value then nearly every single response to the op was over blown.

Again you are all over the map.

Either you agree that she done no harm and that homeopathy is perfectly safe in most cases or that it can be extremely dangerous to give your child rabies.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Hecate666
Personally I wouldn't be so cocky when it comes to homeopathy.

I think we can in this case.

Why? Care to elaborate? Otherwise you just wrote 7 meaningless words.
Give me one good reason against Homeopathy and I give you 10 good reasons for it!

None are set in stone yet, not mine but certainly not yours. It's a bit fundamentalist to just say you know it all with no actual details. I'd like to hear what you have to say but to just say 'not this' is a bit lame [and a bit naive to how science actually works].

a reply to: howtonhawky

So where in your quoted text or the linked article does the word diluted appear?

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: howtonhawky

No, a weak/attenuated virus is not a diluted virus.

Dead viruses are also not diluted viruses.

round and round we go.

The nasal spray flu vaccine does contain live viruses. However, the viruses are attenuated (weakened), and therefore cannot cause flu illness. The weakened viruses are cold-adapted, which means they are designed to only cause infection at the cooler temperatures found within the nose.Oct 30, 2017
Key Facts About Seasonal Flu Vaccine | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
www.cdc.gov...

You do realise that you keep posting links that don't support your claim?

originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Hecate666
Personally I wouldn't be so cocky when it comes to homeopathy.

I think we can in this case.

Why? Care to elaborate? Otherwise you just wrote 7 meaningless words.
Give me one good reason against Homeopathy and I give you 10 good reasons for it!

None are set in stone yet, not mine but certainly not yours. It's a bit fundamentalist to just say you know it all with no actual details. I'd like to hear what you have to say but to just say 'not this' is a bit lame [and a bit naive to how science actually works].

It doesn't work because of science. It not only doesn't work, it can't work as there is no plausible mechanism for it to work.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
You are the one pointing to the need for scientific journals and such so then what makes you believe that some lady at home who thinks it is a bright idea to give her child rabid saliva from a dog would know the level of rabidity?

I don't care what she knows or doesn't know. Diluting something over and over again will eventually make it so that substance is no longer in your concoction. That is a statement of fact. Homeopathy actually banks on dilution to extreme measures (something I pointed out earlier in the thread with my wiki article) due to some jackass reasoning that the substance maintains a memory of diluted substance or something. It's just hooey speak for "placebo".

Now if it was done in some sort of laboratory setting with proper test equipment then one could believe the claim.

You don't need lab equipment to super dilute something...

Going by your logic if we take it on face value then nearly every single response to the op was over blown.

Again you are all over the map.

No. You are just being deliberately obtuse. This has been explained to you over and over again. I JUST showed you didn't even read the OP correctly and you are moving the goal posts back now. Please do us all a favor and just accept you don't know what you are talking about already...

Either you agree that she done no harm and that homeopathy is perfectly safe in most cases or that it can be extremely dangerous to give your child rabies.

What's DANGEROUS about homeopathy is that it is a placebo. So if you think it is working, it really isn't. Thus whatever ails your child still exists within the child and at the most has only gone dormant due to a coincidence.

originally posted by: Hecate666
Why? Care to elaborate?

Yeah, because infecting your child with rabies only infects your child with rabies, it doesn't cure anything.

I'd like to hear what you have to say but to just say 'not this' is a bit lame [and a bit naive to how science actually works].

I think we know how 'the science' in this case actually works, if you infect someone with rabies you are giving them rabies which, nearly 100% of the time, is fatal once it becomes symptomatic.

originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Hecate666
Personally I wouldn't be so cocky when it comes to homeopathy.

I think we can in this case.

Why? Care to elaborate? Otherwise you just wrote 7 meaningless words.
Give me one good reason against Homeopathy and I give you 10 good reasons for it!

Because when you super dilute a substance it makes it so that substance doesn't exist in your concoction anymore. There is also no such thing as water maintaining a "memory" of your substance either (otherwise we'd all get poisoned from fecal waste from reprocessed toilet water). Every one of y our 10 reasons for it are bunk, the placebo effect, or a coincidence.

None are set in stone yet, not mine but certainly not yours. It's a bit fundamentalist to just say you know it all with no actual details. I'd like to hear what you have to say but to just say 'not this' is a bit lame [and a bit naive to how science actually works].

There is literally no scientific data supporting homeopathy.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
Going by your logic if we take it on face value then nearly every single response to the op was over blown.

True but only the ones saying that the child may have been infected with rabies.

That doesn't take away from the ones who just said homeopathy is bunk.