Homeopath “treated” 4-yr-old boy’s behavior problems with saliva from rabid dog

a reply to: howtonhawky

Actually, your entire argument seems to be a petty semantics argument derived from a purposeful misunderstanding of homeopathy development as well as vaccine development.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: howtonhawky

What is there to agree with? That homeopaths are attempting to make their own vaccines using the same flawed methods they use to make their bs homeopath remedies? Sure I wouldn't put it past them. I spend enough time on r/vaxxhappened to believe they'll do anything to justify their hooey. That doesn't mean they are real vaccines though; nor does it mean I have to acknowledge your point about vaccines being homeopathic.

Well sure it is a free country...

How about just admit that the method used to begin synthesis of of a vaccine is the same as the method used in some homeopathy methods.

If you can not admit that then you remain ignorant to the facts.

a reply to: Krazysh0t


If one can not use the definition of homeopathy then how is one to understand such?


?? Is homeopathy the use of live virus being givin to a patient in small doses or is it the use of substituting said live virus for a non active ingredient?

Or is it both?

a reply to: Krazysh0t


If one can not use the definition of homeopathy then how is one to understand such?


?? Is homeopathy the use of live virus being givin to a patient in small doses or is it the use of substituting said live virus for a non active ingredient?

Or is it both?

a reply to: Krazysh0t


If one can not use the definition of homeopathy then how is one to understand such?


?? Is homeopathy the use of live virus being givin to a patient in small doses or is it the use of substituting said live virus for a non active ingredient?

Or is it both?

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: ScepticScot

REVERSE DITTO

at least i am actually providing substance even if many are deadset hardheaded to ignore facts.

You all just post non substantive retorts not designed to educate but to try to win some imaginary battle you think is being waged.


Facts are facts and this fact is that indeed in part vaccines are homepathy born even if that part is diluted down.

The reason a live virus is used is to allow the immune system to respond even if falsely to a last years virus that will have no substantive effect on a mutated form of last years virus in the case of flu.



I think you all are trying to argue very poorly that since the live virus is diluted down it no longer counts as adhering to the definition of homeopathy via nosode. However the immune system response calls you ignorant.

Only its not a fact, it is entirely something you have made up.

Homeopathic 'treatments' have no or so little active ingredients to have absolutely no affect.

a reply to: howtonhawky

How about I don't because that isn't true?
Homeopathic Dilutions

The concept is pseudoscience because, at commonly used dilutions, no molecules of the original material are likely to remain.

A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 times more atoms to simply have one molecule in the final substance.[12]

Several potency scales are in use in homeopathy. Hahnemann created the centesimal or "C scale", diluting a substance by a factor of 100 at each stage. The centesimal scale was favored by Hahnemann for most of his life. A 2C dilution requires a substance to be diluted to one part in one hundred, and then some of that diluted solution diluted by a further factor of one hundred. This works out to one part of the original substance in 10,000 parts of the solution.[3] A 6C dilution repeats this process six times, ending up with the original material diluted by a factor of 100−6=10−12. Higher dilutions follow the same pattern. In homeopathy, a solution that is more dilute is described as having a higher potency, and more dilute substances are considered by homeopaths to be stronger and deeper-acting.[4] The end product is often so diluted that it is indistinguishable from the dilutant (pure water, sugar or alcohol).[5][6][7]

There is also the continued flow mode of dilution that is measured on MFC.

Hahnemann advocated 30C dilutions for most purposes (that is, dilution by a factor of 1060).[8] In Hahnemann's time it was reasonable to assume that preparations could be diluted indefinitely, as the concept of the atom or molecule as the smallest possible unit of a chemical substance was just beginning to be recognized. We now know that the greatest dilution that is reasonably likely to contain one molecule of the original substance is 12C, if starting from 1 mole of original substance.
This bottle contains Arnica montana (Leopard's Bane, Fallkraut) D6, i.e. the nominal dilution is one part in a million (106).

Some homeopaths developed a decimal scale (D or X), diluting the substance to ten times its original volume each stage. The D or X scale dilution is therefore half that of the same value of the C scale; for example, "12X" is the same level of dilution as "6C". Hahnemann never used this scale but it was very popular throughout the 19th century and still is in Europe. This potency scale appears to have been introduced in the 1830s by the American homeopath Constantine Hering.[9] In the last ten years of his life, Hahnemann also developed a quintamillesimal (Q) or LM scale diluting the drug 1 part in 50,000 parts of diluent.[10] A given dilution on the Q scale is roughly 2.35 times its designation on the C scale. For example, a preparation described as "20Q" has about the same concentration as one described with "47C"g.[11]

Potencies of 1000C and above are usually labelled with Roman numeral M and with the centesimal 'C' indicator implied (since all such high potencies are centesimal dilutions): 1M = 1000C; 10M = 10,000C; CM = 100,000C; LM (which would indicate 50,000C) is typically not used because of confusion with the LM potency scale.

If you can not admit that then you remain ignorant to the facts.

Lol. Refusing to agree with you doesn't make me ignorant of facts. You are just being stubborn. Like I said earlier.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: ScepticScot

REVERSE DITTO

at least i am actually providing substance even if many are deadset hardheaded to ignore facts.

You all just post non substantive retorts not designed to educate but to try to win some imaginary battle you think is being waged.


Facts are facts and this fact is that indeed in part vaccines are homepathy born even if that part is diluted down.

The reason a live virus is used is to allow the immune system to respond even if falsely to a last years virus that will have no substantive effect on a mutated form of last years virus in the case of flu.



I think you all are trying to argue very poorly that since the live virus is diluted down it no longer counts as adhering to the definition of homeopathy via nosode. However the immune system response calls you ignorant.

Only its not a fact, it is entirely something you have made up.

Homeopathic 'treatments' have no or so little active ingredients to have absolutely no affect.

Then please address that point to the op...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: howtonhawky

How about I don't because that isn't true?
Homeopathic Dilutions

The concept is pseudoscience because, at commonly used dilutions, no molecules of the original material are likely to remain.

A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 1080 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10320 times more atoms to simply have one molecule in the final substance.[12]

Several potency scales are in use in homeopathy. Hahnemann created the centesimal or "C scale", diluting a substance by a factor of 100 at each stage. The centesimal scale was favored by Hahnemann for most of his life. A 2C dilution requires a substance to be diluted to one part in one hundred, and then some of that diluted solution diluted by a further factor of one hundred. This works out to one part of the original substance in 10,000 parts of the solution.[3] A 6C dilution repeats this process six times, ending up with the original material diluted by a factor of 100−6=10−12. Higher dilutions follow the same pattern. In homeopathy, a solution that is more dilute is described as having a higher potency, and more dilute substances are considered by homeopaths to be stronger and deeper-acting.[4] The end product is often so diluted that it is indistinguishable from the dilutant (pure water, sugar or alcohol).[5][6][7]

There is also the continued flow mode of dilution that is measured on MFC.

Hahnemann advocated 30C dilutions for most purposes (that is, dilution by a factor of 1060).[8] In Hahnemann's time it was reasonable to assume that preparations could be diluted indefinitely, as the concept of the atom or molecule as the smallest possible unit of a chemical substance was just beginning to be recognized. We now know that the greatest dilution that is reasonably likely to contain one molecule of the original substance is 12C, if starting from 1 mole of original substance.
This bottle contains Arnica montana (Leopard's Bane, Fallkraut) D6, i.e. the nominal dilution is one part in a million (106).

Some homeopaths developed a decimal scale (D or X), diluting the substance to ten times its original volume each stage. The D or X scale dilution is therefore half that of the same value of the C scale; for example, "12X" is the same level of dilution as "6C". Hahnemann never used this scale but it was very popular throughout the 19th century and still is in Europe. This potency scale appears to have been introduced in the 1830s by the American homeopath Constantine Hering.[9] In the last ten years of his life, Hahnemann also developed a quintamillesimal (Q) or LM scale diluting the drug 1 part in 50,000 parts of diluent.[10] A given dilution on the Q scale is roughly 2.35 times its designation on the C scale. For example, a preparation described as "20Q" has about the same concentration as one described with "47C"g.[11]

Potencies of 1000C and above are usually labelled with Roman numeral M and with the centesimal 'C' indicator implied (since all such high potencies are centesimal dilutions): 1M = 1000C; 10M = 10,000C; CM = 100,000C; LM (which would indicate 50,000C) is typically not used because of confusion with the LM potency scale.

If you can not admit that then you remain ignorant to the facts.

Lol. Refusing to agree with you doesn't make me ignorant of facts. You are just being stubborn. Like I said earlier.

Then do point as to how the human immune system identifies and responds to the live virus found in vaccines if as you claim against a mountain of proof that shows that live virus is found in vaccines.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: ScepticScot

REVERSE DITTO

at least i am actually providing substance even if many are deadset hardheaded to ignore facts.

You all just post non substantive retorts not designed to educate but to try to win some imaginary battle you think is being waged.


Facts are facts and this fact is that indeed in part vaccines are homepathy born even if that part is diluted down.

The reason a live virus is used is to allow the immune system to respond even if falsely to a last years virus that will have no substantive effect on a mutated form of last years virus in the case of flu.



I think you all are trying to argue very poorly that since the live virus is diluted down it no longer counts as adhering to the definition of homeopathy via nosode. However the immune system response calls you ignorant.

Only its not a fact, it is entirely something you have made up.

Homeopathic 'treatments' have no or so little active ingredients to have absolutely no affect.

Then please address that point to the op...

Why? Does the Op provide any evidence it actually worked?

a reply to: howtonhawky

A vaccine with a live virus isn't homeopathy so it isn't diluted to irrelevancy.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Krazysh0t


If one can not use the definition of homeopathy then how is one to understand such?

Try a scientific journal.

?? Is homeopathy the use of live virus being givin to a patient in small doses or is it the use of substituting said live virus for a non active ingredient?

No.

Or is it both?

It is neither.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: Krazysh0t


If one can not use the definition of homeopathy then how is one to understand such?

Try a scientific journal.

?? Is homeopathy the use of live virus being givin to a patient in small doses or is it the use of substituting said live virus for a non active ingredient?

No.

Or is it both?

It is neither.

Wowsers

Before we can continue then you should share with the rest of the class how you personally define HOMEOPATHY.

Reason being is that in your haste you just scoffed at the dictionary definition of homeopathy.

My goodness man get a grip.

ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

a reply to: howtonhawky

No I didn't. As I said, your argument is a bastardization of homeopathy development and vaccine development.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Does the Op provide any evidence it actually worked?

Why would you need evidence? I mean this is like the most commnonsensical thing ever. For real.

I suggest all stupid people take the example in the Original Post to its ultimate conclusion and make themselves smarter by eating the brain of a stupid person. Hopefully their own.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: howtonhawky

No I didn't. As I said, your argument is a bastardization of homeopathy development and vaccine development.

?? Is homeopathy the use of live virus being givin to a patient in small doses or is it the use of substituting said live virus for a non active ingredient? No. Or is it both? It is neither.

I will pray for you.

Seriously

Define homeopathy for us.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
ATS just reached a new level of ignorance...

Are we really gonna forgo the use of dictionaries now?

The ignorance demonstrated here is entirely yours.

Scenario 1.
If I give my kid 5 ml of liquid paracetamol, but because he doesn't like the taste I mix it in 100 ml of chocolate milk, which he drinks. I have diluted the paracetamol but he still takes 5 ml of paracetamol

Scenario 2.

I dilute the 5 ml in 5,000,000 litres of chocolate milk the give him 100 ml from the mix.

Do you think these are the same thing?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Does the Op provide any evidence it actually worked?

Why would you need evidence? I mean this is like the most commnonsensical thing ever. For real.

I suggest all stupid people take the example in the Original Post to its ultimate conclusion and make themselves smarter by eating the brain of a stupid person. Hopefully their own.

Well howtons argument is becoming more and more diluted by his own gibberish with everypost.

By rules of homeopathy it should be getting more potent.

People come in the thread and claim that homeopathy is 100% placebo.

In a thread that is about giving a kid a live rabies virus and they want to claim it is a placebo and continue to argue with facts by claiming my personal ignorance.

That's rich.

Either homeopathy is giving someone something fake or it is giving small doses of a virus.

By definition...

ho·me·op·a·thy
ˌhōmēˈäpəTHē/Submit
noun
the treatment of disease by minute doses of natural substances that in a healthy person would produce symptoms of disease.

That is the exact method used in vaccines in order to garner an immune system response.

later haters