Salisbury toxin results in - NOT Novichok, NOT Russian

a reply to: tadaman

It was identified as Novichok, which is a family of nerve agents. The reason its point of origin can be identified is because it lacks any impurities. That would seemingly indicate it was produced in a lab setting. Thus ruling out a rogue actor being the culprit like some people were trying to insinuate.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Thats a letter from a Bulgarian representative to the UN....NOT a briefing.

Also, is it Novishok or a "new family of toxic chemicals intended to kill."

?

All this is cause for grave concern as we now face a clear case of a new family of toxic chemicals intended to kill.

You cant have it both ways.

LIES MUCH?

If its new and unknown, how is it then known to be RUSSIAN NOVISHOK?

Also, both victims didnt die. SO the new kilkler nerve agent failed? or just wasnt designed to kill?

The European Council in its conclusions of 22 March 2018 condemned the Salisbury attack in the strongest possible terms and expressed unqualified solidarity with the United Kingdom in the face of this grave challenge to our shared security.


It agreed with the United Kingdom Government's assessment that it is highly likely that the
Russian Federation is responsible and that there is no plausible alternative explanation.

THE EU COUNCIL agreed with the UK governments opinion on the actual findings. Sweet. Big surprise. How is that scientific?

Its all fluff, condemnation and solidarity for UN cameras. Where are the meat and potatoes?

NOT ONCE did that letter mention "Novichok".

a reply to: Xcalibur254

It was identified as Novichok, which is a family of nerve agents.

No it was said that its in the opinion of the government after reviewing the findings that: the nerve agent identified was IN THE PRODUCTION FAMILY of Novichok. Not exactly Novichok, which is an actual nerve agent.

No scientist said "hey I got it, its definitely Novichok, see for yourself"....That didnt happen.

Maybe this nerve agent used had a different absorption method, a different catalyst, who knows. Its not hands down Novichok with no doubt left that it couldn't be another nerve agent all together with only superficial similarities to Novichok.

Politicians linked it to Russia and Novichok. That was a lie. What evidence supports that claim? None? THe scientific evidence is still being weighed, soooooooooooooo.

a reply to: tadaman

Thats a letter from a Bulgarian representative to the UN....NOT a briefing.

He is speaking on behalf of the European Union.

I guess that nothing will convince you so I will leave you to it.

Try reading the whole thing, though. Judging by your previous childish responses to me I suspect that you will probably just get some crayons and colour it in.

a reply to: oldcarpy

I did read it and not once did he mention Novichok. He agreed with sentiment. Ok

AND?

He didnt offer any reason. It was almost a hallmark card.

"I agree with you that Russia is bad. I dont care enough to repeat the same talking point as you though, I say its a new nerve agent, you say its Russian Novichok, um, Russia bad."

a reply to: tadaman

Novichok is a family of nerve agents with at least five known variants. The most lethal of these is Novichok-5, also known as A-232.

According to the Russian ambassador to the UK, Alexander Yakovenko, Porton Down identified the agent as A-234, which is also in the Novichok family.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Then that is pretty straightforward and has a clear method of testing.

Has it been identified as such by the scientists?, or does "Portion Down" say as much in their "expert opinion" after reviewing the actual analysis by scientists of evidence from samples?

Portion Down may read in the actual analysis that it "Could be Novichok" or X, but then Portion Down says it was told that IT IS Novichok according to the best theories from analysts.....

a reply to: tadaman

At least according to Yakovenko, Porton Down's analysis found that it was A-234. The OPCW confirmed the results of PD. I don't think it gets much clearer than that.

The problem why its point of origin can't be identified is due to a lack of impurities. So when it's analysed it just shows the chemicals that go into making it. Nothing else that can be used as an identifier.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

So when it's analysed it just shows the chemicals that go into making it. Nothing else that can be used as an identifier.

Thats the point. So what points to Russia?

The OPCW released findings or said it agreed with the SENTIMENT of the the UK that the most PROBABLE guilty party is Russia....?

Thats the difference I need to have cleared up.

There are no findings that chemists and scientists world wide are pouring over to give it that peer reviewed feel to this all.

Politicians say things. Right. Why would that matter? What do the facts say? New nerve agent or production line, run of the mill, Novichok?

Which lie is best?

a reply to: tadaman

When did the OPCW ever say that? The statement you posted above came from the European Council, not the OPCW.

All the OPCW said is that their analysis matches PD's analysis. Which is that the chemical is a pure form of A-234, so its origin can't be determined through chemical analysis.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

The OPCW released findings or said it agreed with the SENTIMENT of the the UK that the most PROBABLE guilty party is Russia....?

I was asking. Where are the findings that the OPCW released after their analysis?

So far all I saw was a letter from a Bulgarian politician in the OPCW to the EU saying he thinks we are facing a NEW nerve agent. He didn't mention Novichok.

Did Potion Down say things that it feels are the most "probable" , or are they sticking to the facts on a scientific level alone?

a reply to: tadaman

The OPCW released a report a few days ago. As is to be expected, there's not much in the public report. What it does say is that their analysis matches the PD analysis. This was reiterated at today's meeting.

PD has always said that their analysis shows the agent is Novichok. According to a diplomat in tight with Putin, the specific form of Novichok is A-234.

So everything that has been released to the public says that this is a known form of Novichok. What is not known is its origin.

That is all the OPCW and PD have said. Both organizations have been extremely professional and scientific thought this investigation. In fact, at today's meeting Uzumcu made sure not to politicize the findings in anyway.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I sure hope you are right. It all seemed rather instant to me when in a few hours after the attacks the accusations were already made and in a few days politicians were expelled...and all BEFORE any analysis. I hope you are right.

I dont think we could pay taxes like we do in the west to then have a banana republic on top of it all.

I am not happy to have another enemy in Russia, though if they are then so be it.

That said I will not make enemies carelessly just because some idiot needs my help throwing a punch.

You get me? I hope so. Have a good one. I am out of this thread. good luck everyone.

a reply to: tadaman

Bye. Missing you already.

a reply to: oldcarpy

For you I stay.
You are drunk arent you.

Embarrassing how many stars and flags a thread quoting Putins mouthpiece gets on ATS.
You Americans bitch and whine over your partisan MSM however you swallow everything a state run mouthpiece such as RT serves to you?
Eirher you yanks are living up to your reputation (that average American is dumber than #) or someone is generating on purpose these stars and flags so every pro Putin/Russia thread makes it to the front page of ATS.

a reply to: ErrorErrorError

No I change my mind. I will now parrot what my native MSM said.

Russia is evil. They carry out nerve agent attacks on British people and their own citizens that express a desire to return home....just to send a message.

Bastards.

They also let Syria gas their own people after winning a civil war.

Animals.

They used social media to meme Hillary Clint-sin out of a time honored, bought and paid for election rigging.

Scoundrels.

Please let me be a good American with an acceptable mind to those that rule me. I wont make no more trouble. So sorry.

Good luck with the war and stuff.

a reply to: tadaman


No, I am not drunk - yet. I am at work.

I though that you had lifted up your skirts and flounced off?

a reply to: tadaman

The Novichok family is a specific group of toxines and this seems to be a new and very potent variant. The Russians developed the Novichok family back then and now they allegedly used their brand new stuff for a dude they already had in custody years ago?

It's getting weirder and weirder by the second.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here's another fun-fact from the OPCW family of (non-)state agents:

11. The TAV team notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity. The latter is concluded from the almost complete absence of impurities.
12. The name and structure of the identified toxic chemical are contained in the full classified report of the Secretariat, available to States Parties.

www.opcw.org...

Who's going to throw us a states party now? The Brave New Secretarians obviously wont share a thing with us...

a reply to: oldcarpy

You are at work!

No wonder.

Get back to work, unless this is it...then stop.