Salisbury toxin results in - NOT Novichok, NOT Russian

Professor Leonid Rink, who said he had done his doctoral dissertation research on the Novichok agents, expressed doubt that Russia was behind the attack, saying that if it had been carried out by Russian agents the Skripals would not have survived, and while the formulas had once been a closely guarded secret the compounds would now be able to be made by a number of countries possessing appropriate facilities.[31] Rink also confirmed that the structures leaked by Mirzayanov were the correct ones.

Novichok agent

It is therefore known to some governments, not just Russia.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: trollz

As we don't know how many labs tested the toxin for the OPCW to make it's finding I'd be interested to hear from the Swiss lab about their findings than believe Lavrov's narrative.

Make of it what you will:
twitter.com...

originally posted by: Painterz
Yeah, OPCW have confirmed it as Novichok. What a shocker, RT is telling massive giant obvious lies again.

I don't know why anybody trusts a word that channel says about anything, when they've been caught in so many huge blatant lies.

Sorry OP. But I think this one belongs in the LOL forum.

The MSM who provide your thinking confirmed it was Novichock.
The OPCW report said:
"tested positive for the presence of a Novichock class nerve agent or a closely related agent"

Spiez Lab have not denied BZ was also found in their analysis.

a reply to: trollz

So who is the fool that wont do their job, eat crow and apologize to the Russian diplomats that were expelled? No one?

We just stay like this now for a generation or two thanks to the whims of a few fools who jumped the gun to sell a war?

Yah. Ok.

Trust is flowing.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

In an official report designed for experts it's not going to be called Novichok.

Think of it like this, pharmacists don't refer to drugs by the brand name. They call them by their generic name, which reveals a lot about the composition of the drug.

Novichok is the brand name.

That's not going to be how they refer to it in the report. And that's why the name is classified.

Hell, the official classification for the agents isn't even Novichok. What we know as Novichok-5, the most versatile variant, was codenamed A-232 by the Russians.

Please stop trying to make out you know the details of this, it's embarrassing.
The only sensible thing to do is demand that the report from the Spiez Lab is released. This is too important to just swallow what the media tell you to swallow, or what known warmongering govts. tell you.

a reply to: UKTruth

This is MH17 all over again.

The Brits says it's Novichok.

The OPCW say it's Novichok.

But because the Russians claim an independent analysis shows something different that's become the narrative for a subset of the population.

If Spiez Labs comes out tomorrow and says the Russians are lying people will claim they were influenced by TPTB. If they make their full analysis available to the public and it says Novichok, people will claim it was faked.

All because a propagandist made a statement that contradicts those findings.

BZ is not even in the same category of agents as Novichok. It's a super potent LysergicAcidDithalimide like hallucinogen. I've purposefully stayed out of the discussion about Novichok because I'm unaware of what is now publicly known about it versus the classified briefings I had almost 2 decades ago, and I'd rather not risk it.

There are some really good videos out there showing US soldiers being exposed to BZ back in the 60s. BZ was also the inspiration for the 80's horror movie Jacob's Ladder.

I don't completely trust this news, but I never trusted the official reports either. The only reason I could see to use both would be to use the Novichok to kill a target and the BZ as an area effect to compromise any witnesses recollection of events due to the psychedelic nature of BZ.

a reply to: trollz

Also, it will likely come to light...........

"Syria Chemical Weapons origin results in - not Assad, not Syrian"

Likely the Salisbury toxins and Syrian chemical weapons originated from the same source.

originally posted by: Painterz
Yeah, OPCW have confirmed it as Novichok. What a shocker, RT is telling massive giant obvious lies again.

I don't know why anybody trusts a word that channel says about anything, when they've been caught in so many huge blatant lies.

Sorry OP. But I think this one belongs in the LOL forum.

What about Western MSM and the Weapons of Mass Destruction lies? There are far more lies, deflection and deception in the Western media than one Russian news source.

a reply to: trollz

www.opcw.org...

Official release from OPCW confirms findings of UK team with respect to identity and presence of the agent.

It also states it was high purity and no mention of more than one agent. The specific identity and formula is presented in the full report which is classified. However as Novichok are a class of agents there may be a valid reason for non-disclosure of the specific type.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
Also, why is it classified? Are they just giving you a cliffhanger?

The OPCW distributed their classified report to all members, including Russia. Instead of Russia making things up and distorting what has been found, why don't they publish the report?

I don't know why the report hasn't been put into the public domain, stuff like this is generally classified until such time as it's deemed 'ok' to release. What parameters define 'ok' I have no idea, somebody else makes that # up. So Russia or any other recipient of the report may be bound by international law not to release the details but again, I don't know.

The formula for Novichoks are freely available and have been for some decades now, it's hardly a secret, I can even find some details in Wikipedia but not being a chemist there's nothing I'm going to make of it anyway.
The only truth here is, not one of us knows for sure who or what has gone on but I would have thought that if the report named Novichok or it's precursor, derivative whatever specifically then it would have been made public.
There is still time for that to happen.

a reply to: jefwane


I remember reading eye witness reports in the news, when the story initially broke, Sergei Skripal, was seen waving his hands in the air and looking at the sky. That does sound rather like BZ, referencing what you said.

Isn’t it a glaring discrepancy here?

One lab says this and another says that


What exactly does the Swiss lab say itself?

Why doesn’t the OPCW confirm what the Swiss lad found?


When will the Swiss lab verify

Will they verify

originally posted by: trollz
it wasn't even Novichok. It was a toxin called BZ, for short. Second, this toxin has no history of production in Russia. It does, however, have a history of production in the US and UK. The Swiss laboratory sent their results to the Organisation for the Prohibition of the Chemical Weapons (OPCW), who then neglected to include those important facts in its report.
Anyone wanna bet you won't see a peep about this from the MSM?

If this turns out to be true Darth May and her Empire conspirotors not only have a lot of explaining to do but they should resign from their positions immediately.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

In an official report designed for experts it's not going to be called Novichok.

Think of it like this, pharmacists don't refer to drugs by the brand name. They call them by their generic name, which reveals a lot about the composition of the drug.

Novichok is the brand name.

That's not going to be how they refer to it in the report. And that's why the name is classified.

Hell, the official classification for the agents isn't even Novichok. What we know as Novichok-5, the most versatile variant, was codenamed A-232 by the Russians.

Please stop trying to make out you know the details of this, it's embarrassing.
The only sensible thing to do is demand that the report from the Spiez Lab is released. This is too important to just swallow what the media tell you to swallow, or what known warmongering govts. tell you.

The report confirmed "the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury." The name and structure of the toxin were included in the full classified report, distributed to 192 member states of the organization. So governments have the report including Russia. If it said something other then what the UK claims Russia would have had a news conference releasing the report.

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: trollz

the lab in question is basically the highest regarded by international standards.. so they would have to say what the truth is.. As in now it's their turn to confirm or deny what the russian said they found.

Spiez is an OPCW laboratory

Not only that, I find that RT to be the likely breaking source for this, of course credibility is boosted by AP reporting it too.

That being said I'm late to the party and only on Page 1, this may have been debunked by now.

a reply to: trollz

First BZ is not a lethal agent - it is a Hallucinogenic which creates mental confusion in person exposed to it

Second , Russian Today, you are quoting from is a Russian troll and propaganda site

Does the term "useful idiot" have any meaning .........

Russians have for decades put out fake news like this in the hopes that fools like you and conspiracy minded will fall for
it

Maybe should do some research first before posting stuff like this

It's lucky that Russian agents capable of carrying out such an attack have access to only Russian made toxins.

Or...

It's lucky that western agents capable of carrying out such an attack have access to only western made toxins.

The source is irrelevant.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
It's lucky that Russian agents capable of carrying out such an attack have access to only Russian made toxins.

Or...

It's lucky that western agents capable of carrying out such an attack have access to only western made toxins.

The source is irrelevant.

Luckily or he would be dead. One of the reasons the british are so sure it's Russia was the delivery method. It was a gel designed not to kill the victim for 4 hours. It's a manufactured version that had to be obsorbed through the skin. This shows it was the Russians because manufacturing a gel would have been incredibly difficult and expensive. But it is known the Russians designed this gel just for assassinations. And if fact gave it's agents considerable training on how to use it. Like all weopon grade you actually have to mix two chemical precursors together to activate it.

There was also the intercept from syria to Moscow reporting delivery and mentions the agens effectively escaped. The only reason those to are alive is because Russia designed a less lethal form to buy it's agents time to flee.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: trollz

No doubt the war hawks will be in here soon telling you how it's bullish#t because RT said it blah blah blah...

I look forward to the western MSM having to report this.

They won't. The western media is utterly compromised, nothing but a propaganda organ for TPTB.

Just as they won't report what OPCW will find in Syria.