F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

You don't plead the fifth unless your guilty of something. LOL

a reply to: shooterbrody

It appears to me cohen is in trouble for things NOT related to the president, in which case ALL the presidents communications with cohen are protected.

False. Only those in which Cohen was acting as his legal counsel.


If, for example, the president and Cohen were partners in a business venture, communications between them, about that business venture, would not fall under attorney/client privilege.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

www.nolo.com...

The attorney-client privilege protects most communications between clients and their lawyers. But, according to the crime-fraud exception to the privilege, a client’s communication to her attorney isn’t privileged if she made it with the intention of committing or covering up a crime or fraud. Because the attorney-client privilege belongs to the client, the client’s intent determines whether the exception applies. Most courts will apply the exception even if the attorney had no knowledge of, and didn’t participate in, the actual crime or fraud. The crime-fraud exception applies if: the client was in the process of committing or intended to commit a crime or fraudulent act, and the client communicated with the lawyer with intent to further the crime or fraud, or to cover it up.

That states the "privilege belongs to the client", who in this case is the president. So if the president committed no crime (per RM and RR) then why would the privilege not stand?

Are you OK?

Why do you keep claiming that the Special Counsel and Rod Rosenstein have said the President has committed no crime?

The investigation is ongoing.

True that he is not a target of the investigation, but he is a subject...and straight-up, every target of prosecution is a subject before they are a target, but not all subjects become targets.

a reply to: Phage

every source i have read only acknowledge the crime exception
you have a different source?

a reply to: soberbacchus

because it has been reported in many places that trump is not under investigation

trump is cohens client
unless trump committed a crime with cohen trump enjoys privilege no matter what cohen did elsewhere

a reply to: shooterbrody

A legal privilege that works to keep communications between an attorney and his or her client secret. The privilege is asserted in the face of a legal demand for the communications, such as a discovery request or a demand that the lawyer testify under oath. Contrast with attorney's duty of confidentiality.

www.law.cornell.edu...

When Cohen was doing legal work for Trump, when he was acting as his attorney, Trump was his legal client. When anything outside that scope (professional attorney/client) occurred, Trump was not his legal client. He was his friend, or his partner, or his acquaintance. Communications between friends is not privileged.

Talking about Trump's legal matters = attorney/client = privileged
Talking about anything else = not privileged


According to Trump's comment on Fox this morning, Cohen did very little work as Trump's attorney. That is why the government said they don't expect there to be a lot of privileged information in the material gathered.

I find it amusing that, this morning, Trump included the "Stormy Daniels deal" as one bit of legal work that Cohen did for him, when he had previously claimed he knew nothing about it.

a reply to: Phage

YOUR interpretation is not what is written in your link.

www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-crime-fraud-exception-the-attorney-client-privilege.html
Because the attorney-client privilege belongs to the client, the client’s intent determines whether the exception applies. 

if trump is not the target all of his communications would be privileged

glad there is a special master

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Phage

The president himself said that Cohen did very little legal work on his behalf. This would mean that the majority of any documentation concerning the president would not be privileged.

So only part of what one speaks to a lawyer about is privileged?

Correct.
Asking a lawyer that works for you advice on a divorce is privileged.
Asking a lawyer for his soup recipe is not.
Neither is asking for help or guidance in covering up or committing criminal activity.

The occupation of lawyer is not by itself a magical sphere of immunity.

How is the president involved with cohen in a crime if RM and RR have told the president the cohen case does not involve him?
www.bloomberg.com...
www.cbsnews.com...
abcnews.go.com...

The fact that Trump is not a "Target" of the investigation does not insulate him from being implicated in criminal activity discovered through the investigation.

If a murder or kidnapping is discovered when the police search a house looking for drugs, they do not ignore those crimes or evidence.

That's not the same thing at all.

Searching for digital evidence is different from finding a dead body on the floor.

What did the warrant say?

a reply to: shooterbrody

YOUR interpretation is not what is written in your link.

What you quoted applies only when the lawyer is acting as an attorney for the client. I said that. It does not apply if Cohen and Trump were talking as friends. Or partners.

glad there is a special master

Yeah. It beats the hell out of Trump deciding what's admissible.

a reply to: Phage

this wouldn't be an issue if the govt hadn't taken more than what they need
they have probible cause so they got their warrant
if that doesnt have anything to do with trump (as rr has said) then they dont need that info do they?

a reply to: shooterbrody

if that doesnt have anything to do with trump (as rr has said) then they dont need that info do they?

It is Cohen who was the target of the warrant. So they are looking for anything having to do with Cohen's dealings. This would obviously involve looking at his records. All of them covered by the scope of the warrant. If some of it involves Trump, and is not privileged...so be it.

a reply to: Phage

glad to know you support the federal govts tactics in this case
take it all and have a special master sort it out

a reply to: shooterbrody

Those "tactics" are standard protocols when a search warrant is issued on an attorney.


Not sure why you think that the president's rarely used attorney should be handled differently.


cyb3rcrim3.blogspot.com...

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

because it has been reported in many places that trump is not under investigation

originally posted by: [post=23350859]shooterbrody

How is the president involved with cohen in a crime if RM and RR have told the president the cohen case does not involve him?

How does RR or RM know if the Russian Meddling or Michael Cohen's illicit activity involve Trump if neither investigation has concluded yet and both have remaining evidence and interviews??

Rod Rosenstein and the Special Counsel have both accurately told Trump he is not the TARGET of either the Cohen Investigation or the Russian Meddling investigation. The Special Counsel went further in clarifying that the President is a SUBJECT of the Special Counsel investigation.

Not being the Target of Prosecution is not the same as being cleared of any wrongdoing or criminal activity.

I can't tell if you are just pretending to not be able to understand that plain reality?

a reply to: soberbacchus

i understand the president is not the target therefore the govt has no right to communications between trump and cohen as they share no crime

the special master will exclude all of the presidents info

a reply to: shooterbrody

between trump and cohen as they share no crime

That remains to be seen. Just because Trump may not have been the target, it doesn't mean there isn't evidence which can implicate him in criminal activity with Cohen.

the special master will exclude all of the presidents info

Hard to say, since the Stormy Daniels case is part of the investigation there could well be information concerning the president. But, since that is one "deal" that the president has admitted that Cohen worked on, communications about it between he and Trump may be privileged, unless the discussion involved something like committing bank fraud.

a reply to: Phage

if potus was involved with this mueller would not have let it be referred to ny feds

this has NOTHING to do with the campaign or crimes arising from that investigation

but you guys keep right on hoping it does

a reply to: shooterbrody

if potus was involved with this mueller would not have let it be referred to ny feds

How would Mueller know what is in the materials which were gathered? The prosecutor hasn't even seen them.

this has NOTHING to do with the campaign or crimes arising from that investigation

Who said it did?

Of course, that Stormy Daniels deal could turn out to have something to do with illegal campaign contributions. That remains to be seen.

a reply to: Phage

who referred the case to the ny feds?
rm found the probable cause used to get the warrant

lol
like ny did this themselves lol
they did what they were told

a reply to: UKTruth

You know they don't have it. You know none of us do.
The game you're playing is pretending that means Mueller doesn't have any either.
You're so transparent.