F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: Sillyolme

Now the question is will Cohen turn on Trump? to save his slimy ass.

Trump has no doubt told him to hang tight and promised him a Pardon.

But Trump needs to know the charges first (evidence reviewed)

Trump could pardon him for "all offenses committed between such and such date"

But even then, he is still vulnerable to state level charges, which are not subject to Presidential Pardon.

No one will consider flipping or pardons until the Feds review and compile the evidence and bring official charges, which could anywhere from 3 weeks to two months depending on how long Cohen and Trumps attorneys can drag it out.

I have to imagine they are strategizing on what NOT to indict Cohen on, meaning they will reserve a handful of charges for the State of NY to bring if Trump chooses to Pardon Cohen.

a reply to: soberbacchus

justice served on the ability to be pardoned is not justice at all

either you broke the law or you did not

originally posted by: soberbacchus
But even then, he is still vulnerable to state level charges, which are not subject to Presidential Pardon.

Normally you would be correct however a New York state law prohibits state prosecution of people who have been granted a Presidential pardon. Under New York state law they consider it double jeopardy (which it is not). Several New York state reps are reviewing the law and there is a push to make changes.

If that does not happen then a Presidential pardon at the federal level prevents a New York state prosecution on state charges.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: Sillyolme

Now the question is will Cohen turn on Trump? to save his slimy ass.

That is going to depend on the judges ruling. Cohens team requested a special master to review the files to determine whats relevant and not privileged. The judge said she wanted names submitted before she rules.

She got the names yesterday BTW.

Also making news today -
Rosenstein has told Trump he is not the focus of any investigation by Mueller now.

Do you have a link? Not saying that is true or not true, just strange reporting on multiple levels.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: soberbacchus
But even then, he is still vulnerable to state level charges, which are not subject to Presidential Pardon.

Normally you would be correct however a New York state law prohibits state prosecution of people who have been granted a Presidential pardon. Under New York state law they consider it double jeopardy (which it is not). Several New York state reps are reviewing the law and there is a push to make changes.

If that does not happen then a Presidential pardon at the federal level prevents a New York state prosecution on state charges.

Like I said, they RESERVE certain charges so they bring them at State level.

a reply to: Sillyolme

It could be an allobrate ploy to corrupt the investigation..

Say the trump appointee SPECIFICALLY had them raid cohen without enough evidence.
Then another judge reviews it and throws it all out and trump uses it for cover to fire muller.

originally posted by: soberbacchus
Do you have a link? Not saying that is true or not true, just strange reporting on multiple levels.

Not a target of Muellers probe nor is he involved with the Cohen issues

Bloomberg - Rosenstein Tells Trump He’s Not a Target in Mueller, Cohen Probes

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: soberbacchus
But even then, he is still vulnerable to state level charges, which are not subject to Presidential Pardon.

Normally you would be correct however a New York state law prohibits state prosecution of people who have been granted a Presidential pardon. Under New York state law they consider it double jeopardy (which it is not). Several New York state reps are reviewing the law and there is a push to make changes.

If that does not happen then a Presidential pardon at the federal level prevents a New York state prosecution on state charges.

Like I said, they RESERVE certain charges so they bring them at State level.

Yeah I get that. What I am saying is everyone who faces federal charges in the state of New York cannot be prosecuted at the state level if they are pardoned by the President.

Considering the state governments and the federal government are separate sovereigns there is no double jeopardy involved. I am not sure why New York state ever adopted that law or what occurred that resulted in its creation and adoption.

Presidential pardons do not require a person be charged or convicted. A presidential pardon can be granted at any point, negating your argument on reserving charges for state prosecution.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Sillyolme

It could be an allobrate ploy to corrupt the investigation..

Say the trump appointee SPECIFICALLY had them raid cohen without enough evidence.
Then another judge reviews it and throws it all out and trump uses it for cover to fire muller.

No one appointed by Trump was involved in the decision to execute a search warrant on Cohen. The Trump appointee for the SDNY recused himself. The ADSDNY and Rosenstein signed off on it.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Sillyolme

It could be an allobrate ploy to corrupt the investigation..

Say the trump appointee SPECIFICALLY had them raid cohen without enough evidence.
Then another judge reviews it and throws it all out and trump uses it for cover to fire muller.

well played

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: soberbacchus
Do you have a link? Not saying that is true or not true, just strange reporting on multiple levels.

Not a target of Muellers probe nor is he involved with the Cohen issues

Bloomberg - Rosenstein Tells Trump He’s Not a Target in Mueller, Cohen Probes

Ah, OK.

back to the "Target" "Subject" "Witness" thing.

I agree that Trump is not the target of the investigation.

It would be useless to target Trump anyways as any remedy would need to be political (Impeachment) not legal (Indictment)

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: soberbacchus
But even then, he is still vulnerable to state level charges, which are not subject to Presidential Pardon.

Normally you would be correct however a New York state law prohibits state prosecution of people who have been granted a Presidential pardon. Under New York state law they consider it double jeopardy (which it is not). Several New York state reps are reviewing the law and there is a push to make changes.

If that does not happen then a Presidential pardon at the federal level prevents a New York state prosecution on state charges.

Like I said, they RESERVE certain charges so they bring them at State level.

Yeah I get that. What I am saying is everyone who faces federal charges in the state of New York cannot be prosecuted at the state level if they are pardoned by the President.

Considering the state governments and the federal government are separate sovereigns there is no double jeopardy involved. I am not sure why New York state ever adopted that law or what occurred that resulted in its creation and adoption.

Presidential pardons do not require a person be charged or convicted. A presidential pardon can be granted at any point, negating your argument on reserving charges for state prosecution.

Wow, that is interesting.

Let's see how this unfolds. Chess, not checkers.

New York Attorney General Seeks Power to Bypass Presidential Pardons
www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: Xcathdra

No one appointed by Trump was involved in the decision to execute a search warrant on Cohen.

Not even some guy who's initials are R.R. ?
Well yeah, he wasn't appointed by Trump but he was nominated by him.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Sillyolme

It could be an allobrate ploy to corrupt the investigation..

Say the trump appointee SPECIFICALLY had them raid cohen without enough evidence.
Then another judge reviews it and throws it all out and trump uses it for cover to fire muller.

No one appointed by Trump was involved in the decision to execute a search warrant on Cohen.

Between resignations, scandals, ethics complaints and indictments, I am of the opinion that no one "appointed by Trump" should be trusted with running a McDonalds, let alone making federal decisions in regards to what constitutes criminal acts.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Sillyolme

It could be an allobrate ploy to corrupt the investigation..

Say the trump appointee SPECIFICALLY had them raid cohen without enough evidence.
Then another judge reviews it and throws it all out and trump uses it for cover to fire muller.

No one appointed by Trump was involved in the decision to execute a search warrant on Cohen.

Between resignations, scandals, ethics complaints and indictments, I am of the opinion that no one "appointed by Trump" should be trusted with running a McDonalds, let alone making federal decisions in regards to what constitutes criminal acts.

The same standard applies in reverse.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

The same standard applies in reverse.

Correct. McDonalds should not be running the Government.

a reply to: soberbacchus

you do know you can fake geo stamps too right?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: soberbacchus

you do know you can fake geo stamps too right?

Explain please.

Both how geo stamps are faked, and why you are suggesting Michael Cohen chose to do that.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: soberbacchus

you do know you can fake geo stamps too right?

Explain please.

Both how geo stamps are faked, and why you are suggesting Michael Cohen chose to do that.

You never heard of cloning someones phone? Its a typical ploy used by intelligence agents. Remember this is a FBI operation,and its not liek they have not framed people before. as said before though this is a different cohen apparently.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: soberbacchus

you do know you can fake geo stamps too right?

Explain please.

Both how geo stamps are faked, and why you are suggesting Michael Cohen chose to do that.

You never heard of cloning someones phone? Its a typical ploy used by intelligence agents. Remember this is a FBI operation,and its not liek they have not framed people before.

Ah, so the FBI in August of 2016 knew that Trump would win and conducted an operation to clone the phone of his personal Lawyer to show him in NJ in August then, knowing a dossier would be shared later that would suggest he was in Prague then.

Got it...