Home owner aged 78 arrested under suspicion of murder stabbing intruder UK

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

And that is all very well and good but different states have different laws.

I think the Texas way of doing it is just fine for Texas.

UK laws are not perfect nobody is saying that they are but I do think that the reaction of some non-uk members is deliberately antagonising.

Only due to some folks having a "tit for tat" mentality. The crap we have to hear from you guys over our 2nd amendment is pretty ridiculous, in light of your complaint here.

That said...i don't buy into tit for tat. And won't participate in such things.

Sounds like tit for tat to me....

"The crap" you have to hear form us guys over the second amendment, on other words you don't really like UK members passing a opinion on a American matter that does not aline with your own so you are going to run into every UK thread and talk about how awful we all are.

So you can get own back like some kind teenager.

Honestly its been explained loads on this thread why he has been arrested and how nothing will come of it yet American members continue to act like this is some massive miscarriage of justice. I strongly suspect that this is just a excuse to have a dig at the UK members because you don't like us commenting on your gun laws and POTUS.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Freeborn

In florida it is still against the law to have sex with a chicken, spit on the sidewalk and cuss on sunday I believe.

Seems only sensible to me. We have laws against animal cruelty here, too.

Just protocol if found he did act in self defense with appropriate force he will be let off.
Like others have said if the police just let him off without questioning we would all be able to get away with murder.

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: notsure1

Whats going on in the UK? You lot need to get your country under control.

What's going on at ATS?
You need to start reading the whole thread, consider what people who live here in the UK have to say on the matter and think before posting.

After quite an absence from ATS it does in deed seem to me that there is a marked increase in US members who choose to criticise the UK and its members here on ATS at any given opportunity without giving any sort of considered or reasoned thought.

People in glass houses and all that.......

Yeah its a bit crazy when every UK member so far has explained that this is just something the police have to do and its totally normal.... no charges should be expected....yet members from outside the UK are talking like this poor old guy is going to die in a prison cell.

Its totally normal to arrest the guy who protected himself at his own home? You guys need help ...

I don't think they understand you can simply ask a citizen to come in for questioning without having to arrest them. They are so used to everyone being arrested, they accept it as "no big deal" It doesn't matter if he's charged, It's ALREADY gone too far simply by the fact that he was arrested.

If they needed to ask him questions, they could have done that. If they wanted a "formal" setting, sure they could have asked him to come with them to police station and have a seat, maybe grab a cup of coffee and talk over what happened. Maybe let him bring a loved one or two with him just to give him some moral support.

Yeah...I assume any mother#er in my house that shouldn't be there is probably trying to kill me. The only reasonable way to repsond to someone trying to kill you is well...to respond in kind.

a reply to: PsychoEmperor

I don't think they understand you can simply ask a citizen to come in for questioning without having to arrest them.

Not really.....

the PACE Act of 1984 governs all of this.

The guy has to be arrested so he can be questioned under caution and as such his words can be used as evidence in a court of law (as per the arrest statement) although it probably will never come to that but his statement under caution will be required I would think by the CPS.

Its actually as much about protecting his rights as it is for the "victim" because once formally cautioned by police a number of other rights for the suspect kick in, also being arrested is not the same as being charged.

I do wonder if some of the reason that many are having a hard time with this is just simply being ignorant of what it means to be arrested in the UK.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Unless "arrested" means something different in the UK

It does.

Our police don't shoot suspects on site nor is arrest a charge or a conviction.

Arrest can just happen to everyone in a area of investigate so the police can investigate everyone as quickly as possible. No one is guilty of any thing at that point.

It only moves up to the courts if you are charged.

As long as it happened like the chap said he will be fine. If he stabbed him when knocked out it will be a different matter which I highly doubt he has defence wounds on his arms.
Did I just here right that the other burglar is on the run still?.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Then that's a problem with your law system, I grew up in a not so kind part of America, and I've been a part of and been witness of many unfortunate incidents. As a result I've been Questioned by police many, many times. Never once was I arrested. Never once was a I made to feel like I was a criminal, as would be the case had I been arrested.

It's just sad that a 75 year old man has to face the trauma of a night time home invasion. He must have been terrified, and scared and feared for his life, he then had to face the trauma of being forced to take one of their lives in self defense.

This man should be regarded as a hero, he should be with his friends, family and loved ones, he should be taken care of. and SURE he should be questioned in the slightest chance it was premediated murder, but until their is any evidence to the contrary, this man should not be given another trauma of having to be treated like a criminal who committed murder. He did not commit murder, he defended himself.

Stories like this only serve to make future victims think twice when defending themselves, and that should never be the case. The people should never fear their government.

a reply to: PsychoEmperor

I don't think they understand you can simply ask a citizen to come in for questioning without having to arrest them.

Of course you can 'ask', just as he can say no.

To circumvent all that there is a due process that has to be followed at all times - it's not distressing or anything like that, medical experts and legal representatives will be present at all times.
'Cups of coffee' and other refreshments will be readily available at all times.

Its not like he's going to get some intense Gestapo like interrogation or forced rendition.

A formal statement recorded in alignment with due process then release pending further enquiries.

a reply to: PsychoEmperor

Yes and when they establish the facts he will be given counciling and help to get him through the times ahead.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

My dad always taught me even as a child... if a burglar is climbing through the window... make sure he gets into the house... then shoot him. Don't shoot the guy and let him fall out onto the yard.. because then your rights might change.

Weird advice to give a child, but it's stuck with me this whole time.

a reply to: testingtesting

Did I just here right that the other burglar is on the run still?.

According to the latest reports the other burglar is still at large.

a reply to: PsychoEmperor

Then that's a problem with your law system

Nope its not a problem, most people in the UK know how it works.

There are problems with our legal system like the way data on individuals is kept by the police for instance but the actual process of arrest is not really a problem.

Never once was I arrested.

Yup because you live under a different jurisdiction and are subject to a different legal system does not mean one is better than the other just that they are different.

originally posted by: intrptr

Ban Screwdrivers...

Yeah, and you can use your AK to hammer in nails.

typical, and not unexpected jab...

At least he was alive and well when taken to the station, you can get shot and killed by American police for just sitting in your front garden, unarmed!!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

GASP! Someone has an opinion!!!

I've seen the explanations. Im flabbergasted at the defense of statism here.

Do not mistake a critique of your political overlords as a critique of you personally. No need for that. And keep in mind...this is a discussion forum, where stories are posted for discussion. You may believe that any questions have been addressed...but its still a discussion forum where people are free to discuss.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Then that's a problem with your law system, I grew up in a not so kind part of America, and I've been a part of and been witness of many unfortunate incidents. As a result I've been Questioned by police many, many times. Never once was I arrested. Never once was a I made to feel like I was a criminal, as would be the case had I been arrested.

It's just sad that a 75 year old man has to face the trauma of a night time home invasion. He must have been terrified, and scared and feared for his life, he then had to face the trauma of being forced to take one of their lives in self defense.

This man should be regarded as a hero, he should be with his friends, family and loved ones, he should be taken care of. and SURE he should be questioned in the slightest chance it was premediated murder, but until their is any evidence to the contrary, this man should not be given another trauma of having to be treated like a criminal who committed murder. He did not commit murder, he defended himself.

Stories like this only serve to make future victims think twice when defending themselves, and that should never be the case. The people should never fear their government.

Welcome to Court of Public Opinion. You know exactly what happened because you read about it in the papers?

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Then that's a problem with your law system, I grew up in a not so kind part of America, and I've been a part of and been witness of many unfortunate incidents. As a result I've been Questioned by police many, many times. Never once was I arrested. Never once was a I made to feel like I was a criminal, as would be the case had I been arrested.

It's just sad that a 75 year old man has to face the trauma of a night time home invasion. He must have been terrified, and scared and feared for his life, he then had to face the trauma of being forced to take one of their lives in self defense.

This man should be regarded as a hero, he should be with his friends, family and loved ones, he should be taken care of. and SURE he should be questioned in the slightest chance it was premediated murder, but until their is any evidence to the contrary, this man should not be given another trauma of having to be treated like a criminal who committed murder. He did not commit murder, he defended himself.

Stories like this only serve to make future victims think twice when defending themselves, and that should never be the case. The people should never fear their government.

Welcome to Court of Public Opinion. You know exactly what happened because you read about it in the papers?

No, but, clearly you do? This is a discussion forum. I am participating in the discussion.

To be clear the discussion currently being had is about a 78 year old gentlemen who was arrested for defending himself from two home intruders. What is your point of view on that topic?

originally posted by: Kurokage
At least he was alive and well when taken to the station, you can get shot and killed by American police for just sitting in your front garden, unarmed!!

Do the math, your scenario is so unlikely its laughable...
Its always amusing to me how Europeans cant grasp the sheer size of our country and population, even if you use the worst numbers available its a tiny percentage chance of being shot you lose all credibility by making that argument.