Porton Down experts unable to verify 'precise source of novichok'

a reply to: greyhat


Well, you seem to believe Russian propaganda BS.

Does it not sound stupid to kill someone in London by poisoning them with Polonium? Does that not sound far too stupid?

But that was exactly what Putin's FSB did to Litvinenko, and they got away with it.

a reply to: TrueBrit


All true, but back on topic, lets see what comes out of the woodwork by way of evidence.

a reply to: oldcarpy

I am all for that, but I want my nations government to be doing that as well, and they quite clearly have not been. That is a very big problem for me. Put another way, if I, a metalhead, a person who one might look at and think however unwisely "There walks a complete nutbar with an impulse control problem", have more restraint and propriety about myself than the leaders of my nation, we have a serious, serious issue to deal with as a country. How can it be that we have elected to positions of power, people who appear as businesslike as possible at all times, while being utterly underqualified to lead a scout troop, leave alone a nation?

a reply to: TrueBrit


Sometimes too much restraint can be seen as a sign of weakness and invites a damn good stomping. Standing up to bullies and all that.

And hello to a fellow metalhead, I am afraid to say that I look a bit respectable, myself, these days. Sort of. Like, cunningly disguised as a responsible adult.

a reply to: oldcarpy

I totally get the point about standing up to bullies. You learn those lessons when you live where I live, and like the things I like!

Speaking as someone who has had to live or die according to his decision making, precisely because of the severity of the bullying that I have experienced, I know exactly when to act and when not to, and how to act and how not to. It would appear, from my perspective, that the easy life that our leaders have been living, has left them ill prepared to do the work they have been appointed to do.

Good to know I am among people of taste and discernment though, thats always a pleasure, regardless of what your disguise may be!

a reply to: eletheia

all you need is recipe a chemist and a decent chem lab it was a small amount used so truthfully it could have been made anywhere. i don't think russians did it. why would they try to kill this guy when sorosc has been messing with them for years?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
...lets see what comes out of the woodwork by way of evidence.

Isn't the latest evidence really great?

"A RUSSIAN lab has been pinpointed by security services as the likely manufacturer of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack.

Security sources have claimed that they are not 100 per cent certain on the location but they have a high degree of confidence."

"We have found the evil Russian poison lab but we are not really sure where it is..."

originally posted by: greyhat

originally posted by: oldcarpy
...lets see what comes out of the woodwork by way of evidence.

Isn't the latest evidence really great?

"A RUSSIAN lab has been pinpointed by security services as the likely manufacturer of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack.

Security sources have claimed that they are not 100 per cent certain on the location but they have a high degree of confidence."

"We have found the evil Russian poison lab but we are not really sure where it is..."

Spy manual reveals Russian agents were trained to put poison on doorknobs

Now a security source has confirmed: “The door handle thing is big. Pretty much every ally we have in the world has now been briefed on this intelligence.

Considered me convinced it was the Russians with this highly damning information. /s

originally posted by: frontieruk

originally posted by: greyhat

originally posted by: oldcarpy
...lets see what comes out of the woodwork by way of evidence.

Isn't the latest evidence really great?

"A RUSSIAN lab has been pinpointed by security services as the likely manufacturer of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack.

Security sources have claimed that they are not 100 per cent certain on the location but they have a high degree of confidence."

"We have found the evil Russian poison lab but we are not really sure where it is..."

Spy manual reveals Russian agents were trained to put poison on doorknobs

Now a security source has confirmed: “The door handle thing is big. Pretty much every ally we have in the world has now been briefed on this intelligence.

Considered me convinced it was the Russians with this highly damning information. /s

Or maybe someone watched the 1997 film " The Jackal " starring Bruce Willis.

He applies toxic poison to a door handle on a van.

originally posted by: greyhat
"We have found the evil Russian poison lab but we are not really sure where it is..."

It's a highly toxic nerve agent ... called Novicheck which is stored as two stable elements, that only become deadly when put together. It is so deadly, you die in ... what microseconds.

But, somehow somebody went into their home ... in, what? a bio suit, unnoticed? to administer a "poison"? that was ... what, administered as a butter on a loaf of bread?

Wait a minute here ... this is a "war agent", and an attack-weapon. It's something that is so deadly and I throw it over enemy, to kill all resistance before I come in and take over the country?

Ladies, and gentlemen ... doesn't that mean, that I will design this agent to wither out and become non-toxic within some period of time? and what period would that exactly be? AFTER, the army is resupplied with new recruits and weapons?

If this is something that you can administer, and it stays "toxic" for weeks ... then it isn't a war agent.

Which means, that the entire crew of bio-suits running around are little more but theatrical, and they probably put the chemicals there themselves. I don't believe for one second, that a "war agent" wouldn't have solved itself by now.

originally posted by: frontieruk
Spy manual reveals Russian agents were trained to put poison on doorknobs

Now a security source has confirmed: “The door handle thing is big. Pretty much every ally we have in the world has now been briefed on this intelligence.

Considered me convinced it was the Russians with this highly damning information. /s

Of cause. And somehow these evil Russkies even managed a timed release so Skripal and his daughter could make it from the door nob to the park bench so they could be found in time to be rescued!

Real wonder, someone should inform the Pope, halleluyah!

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: proteus33

All you need is recipe a chemist and a decent chem lab it was a small amount used so truthfully it could have been made anywhere. i dbjarneorn on't think russians did it. why would they try to kill this guy when sorosc has been messing with them for years?

Really its that easy?

post reply bjarneorn:
a highly toxic nerve agent ... called Novicheck which is stored as two stable elements, that only become deadly when put together. It is so deadly, you die in ... what microseconds.

But, somehow somebody went into their home ... in, what? a bio suit, unnoticed? to administer a "poison"? that was ... what, administered as a butter on a loaf of bread?

Wait a minute here ... this is a "war agent", and an attack-weapon. It's something that is so deadly and I throw it over enemy, to kill all resistance before I come in and take over the country?

Thank you bjarneorn

I would call that extremely dangerous

a reply to: eletheia
yes it really is that easy its a chemical compound so yes if you have

1 a recipe

2 a proper chem lab with all the ingredients

3 a competent chemist or 2 who can use the recipe.

and yes i still have no idea why russians would use this as an assassination weapon when there is much easier ways that are much more effective. me personally if i was the killer would have killed him in such a way to make it look like he was mugged and got stabbed in process then the kremlin could issue how sorry they were that one of their colleques died do to outta control knife violence in uk. that way they know your country did it but can't prove it.

a reply to: greyhat


I have posted this before - a Russian scientist working on a binary Novichok weapon a while back was accidentally exposed to it. Took the poor chap about 5 years to die.

Russian Scientist Dies After Novichok Exposure.

Of course, Russia has denied ever having any of this.

And then there is the bit now coming out about how Russian agents are trained how to put poison etc on door handles.

Etc, etc.

a reply to: oldcarpy

WMDs are a dirty business, everywhere in to world.

books.google.de... e&sa=X&ved=#v=onepage&q=foliant binary nerve&f=false

Even in Britain.

www.theguardian.com...


And everything your enemies know about you can be used to create a false flag.

Doorknobs, etc., etc....

originally posted by: greyhat
Of cause. And somehow these evil Russkies even managed a timed release so Skripal and his daughter could make it from the door nob to the park bench so they could be found in time to be rescued!

This is one of the big head scratchers of this whole thing for me. Like you, many people seem to over-simplify this as being timed due to the delay in effect but it seems to be way more complicated than that.

First off, we have to take into consideration the fact that Yulia is 33 years old, half the age of her father, arguably she also has a much more effective immune system than her father, so how is it that they both succumb to the nerve agent at the same time?

Then we have the poisoning of not just one but two police officers (and possibly 1 or 2 more members of the emergency services). Nick Bailey succumbed to poison as he tried to help the Skripals and a uniformed officer was also treated for poisoning. The official story states that Detective Seargant Bailey had visited the Skripals home and was poisoned there but my understanding is that he was the nearest officer to where the Skripals lay stricken on a bench, why would he have been at their house?

So not only did this nerve agent, that can kill very quickly, not take effect until later than it probably should but it also took effect in different victims of varying constitutions at exactly the same time. It's like there were carefully measured out doses for each person, just tovget the desired effect (i.e. not kill)

The mind boggles...

a reply to: djz3ro


Here we are, I have done some research for you. Bailey did initially attend the Skripals and then went to their home which is where it is now believed he was exposed. It was initially reported that he was exposed as the first responder. These stories have a way of evolving over time as new facts emerge, as is always the case.

Daily Mirror

Yes, I know, its the Mirror, but the same is reported elsewhere all over the place.

Why ask questions and remain in ignorance when a quick Google can put you straight? No need to boggle.

a reply to: djz3ro

You made a point about Yulia and her immune system, and I want to clear it up, if you do not mind.

Yulia is apparently able to talk and sit up, according to recent reports, while her father remains in a critical but stable condition. The thing about a nerve agent of this sort, is that whether a person is effected or not is nothing to do with the strength of their immune system. The immune system strength only effects whether they survive, and how quickly and completely they might recover in best case scenario.

a reply to: djz3ro

This isn't a disease. The immune system isn't going to do anything. The way Novichok works is by causing the body to overproduce acetylcholine. There's not much an immune system is going to do to stop that.

I also don't get why people are saying that it should kill a person in seconds. Maybe if it was in a gaseous form or injected it would have that effect. In this case though, it sounds like the agent was absorbed transdermally. That's the route of administration that will take the longest to reach the brain. About 30 minutes. Because it takes so long to reach the brain it's also going to take longer for the effects to reach their peak.

I'm guessing after being exposed to the Novichok the Skripals felt fine at first but then slowly throughout the day they started feeling worse and worse until finely their CNS was so flooded with acetylcholine that their bodies shut down.

I am wondering if Nick Bailey had not also been poisoned whether any of this nerve agent business may ever have come to light?