How are those Gun Laws working out for you, England?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: SoEpic

You are so out of touch!

Not at all - just have a different perspective and viewpoint.

You can't live in London.

Never have and never will, its a # hole.
I have however visited the place on many occasions and have quite a few friends who live there.

I have also visited many other cities across Europe and the chances of being mugged at knifepoint are just as high in the vast majority of them as they are in London or any other major city.

I used to live in London 11 years ago. My wife was mugged at knifepoint. If I had been there with a legal gun it wouldn't have happened. People think more before taking actions if they think the person they want to attack may be carrying a gun. Other civilians that are armed may step in and help.

But you weren't there so whether you had a gun or not is completely irrelevant.
The only thing is, if there were a lot more guns in general circulation and you had one then the chances are that the mugger would have one, who knows how it would have ended up then?
If the mugger was holding a gun to your girlfriends head then the outcome would most likely have resulted in at least one death, probably more.

When I was a child in the 80s I never heard of knife crime......

And you say I'm out of touch!

.... but now it's commonplace - it's far worse than it's ever been!

It's definitely reported more.

.... How can you say its been reduced?

I don't think I did say that knife crime has reduced, please show me where I said that.

It seems we differ massively.

I see the country getting worse as far as knife and gun crime and I would like to be in a position to protect my family to the best of my ability and you are happy as things are...

I feel sorry for you and your family but I do understand people being scared of guns if they haven't had relevant training.

A well armed society is a polite society.

a reply to: SoEpic

Or more accurately an armed society is one where more people get murdered.

You do realise that the same changes to the law that would make it easier for you to get a gun would also make it easier for the hypothetical attacker you are do scared of have one?

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: EvillerBob

huh? i was stating a simple fact

Except it's not a fact, which is what I was correcting.

I've had too much chocolate today, I'm more argumentative than normal

a reply to: ScepticScot
Well, you believe what you want to believe, I was there and what I said was the truth. Even in my small market town in the middle of England we had 4, that's 4, murders all drug related. Only 1 was mentioned in the national papers, a small bit on an internal page. Now don't you think that's an escalation of murder, 4 in 2 months. But oh I'm talking s# because you haven't heard about it.

So London now represents all of England?..funny, why doesn't Chicago, or Miami, or a multitude of other cites with scandalous murder rates represent all of America

originally posted by: vonclod
So London now represents all of England?..funny, why doesn't Chicago, or Miami, or a multitude of other cites with scandalous murder rates represent all of America

Lol, that cess pit is the total opposite of my world in the SW of England. Couldn't pay me enough to live there.
I feel sorry for people who do, we have poverty in these parts but being skint by the beach is definitely a nicer experience than that concrete # hole.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: ScepticScot
Well, you believe what you want to believe, I was there and what I said was the truth. Even in my small market town in the middle of England we had 4, that's 4, murders all drug related. Only 1 was mentioned in the national papers, a small bit on an internal page. Now don't you think that's an escalation of murder, 4 in 2 months. But oh I'm talking s# because you haven't heard about it.

No you were talking # because you were talking uniformed bigoted garbage about not hearing English bring spoken.

This post just demonstrates you don't understand the difference between anecdote and evidence.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I can believe it.
It's funny that this is the 4th or 5th thread on this cherry picked gem today..so desperate some are.

a reply to: StallionDuck


It is not England it is the United Kingdom and to answer your question gun laws working just fine over here. We dont get mass school shootings anyway.

a reply to: vonclod
It is crazy the difference environment makes though, our youths still tend to fight without weapons, it would mean personal shame to pull a knife in a fist fight so all the young men I know tell me, my son included.
Young folk just get stoned at the beach or doing shrooms in the countryside, free parties/raves, and being decent.
Anyone stabbed here there is some exeptional back story to it, and usually the 'stabber' is ostricised by the community because they broke the rules.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

For sure different environment(big cities) makes a difference..less community.
Unfortunately here in the Vancouver area, and surrounding suburbs there has been a big increase in gunplay, 90% is amongst ethnic gangsters, usually 2nd-3rd gen. 20+ years ago it was fistfights, knives..etc..much less lethal.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Population:

England: 53m

USA: 326m

Homicide rate:

UK : 1.2

USA: 4.7

The USA has 6X more people than the UK. Looks like the UK would pass the US if you base it on population.

a reply to: vonclod

It's such a pity isn't it, young lives snubbed out over a £200 deal someone refused to pay or whatever.
I still worry as any parent does for their child, but I'm glad I'm lucky I live here not London, there are still old school rules, and a broken eye socket is better than a knife to the heart.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: SoEpic

Only the criminals have guns here.

The vast majority of criminals here in the UK don't use guns.

And that's my point. Doesn't matter what weapons you have, there will still be murder. Based on the numbers by population, the UK would have a higher death rate.

Also, gun deaths are not represented correctly here. If you're shot while committing a crime here, that's considered a gun death.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: StallionDuck


It is not England it is the United Kingdom and to answer your question gun laws working just fine over here. We dont get mass school shootings anyway.

That was just London, not the UK.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Agree'd

originally posted by: TNMockingbird
a reply to: StallionDuck

I suppose it's true... If someone wants to kill someone else, they really don't need a gun to do it.

This is true but in some cases, you'll have a better chance at a better outcome.
My nephew was stabbed a couple of months ago and almost died. He was being a dumb kid (he's a young man age 24) in a place/situation that he should have never been in. I'm thankful that neither of them had a gun although that doesn't change my mind about citizens and legal weapons. Incidentally, neither of them are allowed to own a gun, legally, under the current law.

21 foot rule. If you're within 21 feet of someone and you have a knife in hand, you can effectively take out that person carrying a gun before they have a chance to pull it out of the holster and shoot you.

Id say knives are pretty effective in the right hands. Imagine someone that knows how to use a knife in a crowd? It would be very bad. Sides... You wont hear the BANG of a knife in a crown, warning you someone is in danger. Cries for help would only come when someone sees another and realizes what happened. Kidney jabs... the victim wouldn't mutter a word.

originally posted by: oasisjack
a reply to: SprocketUK

Consider that your home office does not report a homicde until a conviction is rendered ( which can take 5-10 years) how do you honestly know? Their could be hundreds even thousands of murders a year that are not tallied until some time has passed or even never tallied if unsolved.

Pretty much someone shoots another person with an air rifle and it makes the news here, so yeah, we know and I can't think of a murder case taking five years aside from the odd, freak case of a previously unsolved "cold case" You might be reaching a bit.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: SprocketUK

Well, the cops on our streets aren't killed at a greater rate than marines in Kandahar

They are in Chicago with that fabulous gun control.

Oh so Chicago has gun control? How exactly? Does everyone entering the city surrender their weapons by the "Welcome to Chicago" sign?

Don't get me wrong here, fellas, I think your gun laws are probably as good as they can be for your country. I am absolutely sure that giving up your arms would leave just the crims having them there.
Here though? Our gun laws work for us and, you don't have to like it, just the same as people from here don't have to like yours...for what it's worth, if I lived there and was allowed I would have six shooters on my hips and a Winchester on my saddle like John bloody Wayne

a reply to: StallionDuck

Don't you think it is a bit different to a guy going into a school and massacring children?

You are talking about random stabbings, most prob gang related.

Completely different to why people want guns banned, or more controlled in America.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Well, unfortunately my nephew took his fists to a knife fight.
Still dumb as hell and over weed! Twenty bucks I think! The guy was twice his age so I can see a fit young man coming at you and you defend yourself (overly so maybe). I truly am thankful that there was no gun. My nephew was here a weekend or two ago and showed the scar, breast to navel nearly.
My sister and law and I were attacked outside an Outlaw bar years ago in Florida and not proudly I used a knife to escape us. I felt I had no choice...a man and two women, my brother was so upset with me.
I kept telling him that he wasn't there, he doesn't get it.
My knife skills are pretty good but I never want to be in the position to use them.