How are those Gun Laws working out for you, England?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: ScepticScot

Speaking of selective stat mining, notice how I said three things; robbery, rape, and murder, yet you chose to just go for murder because it's the weakest of the three. That's laughable. The rape and robbery rate in london has been much higher than the US for a while now.

Has it? Show me a study using the same definitions and we can discuss it.

MURDER = UNLAWFUL MURDERING SOMEONE, DOES NOT INCLUDE: justified homicide AKA self-defense or suicide or accidents
RAPE = Forced sexual intercourse, DOES NOT INCLUDE: sexual assault, harassment, making you cry.
ROBBERY = Forcible/violent theft, theft under duress or entering into an occupied dwelling with intent to commit any larceny or felony within the dwelling



If your failed and spineless gun-control actually worked, the UK would have a 0.0% murder rate/violent crime rate.
As would all these other failed socialist ####-### states that employ various control measures - none have worked, no one has a 0.0% murder rate/violent crime rate.

I'll never give mine up. Period. But by all means, keep breathless speculating about it Someone once said, when your enemies are making a mistake, don't stop them. I won't stop you or any other worthless socialist wanna-be controller. Socialists typically have no real power, money or lifestyle within their host nation (the nation they suckle their resources from).

Not interested in hearing any anti-gun arguments, I already know they're all logically unsound, unstable and frankly, stupid. Now, if you want to argue we need IQ tests or knowledge-of-the-issues tests before a vote, I'll support that fully. Otherwise, why are you still talking?

a reply to: JBurns

If your failed and spineless gun-control actually worked, the UK would have a 0.0% murder rate/violent crime rate.

That's why crime and murder rates are next to nothing compared to America, which is about 4 times higher, and why there's also a mass shooting nearly twice a month there. Criminals will always be criminals but if you can limit access to certain types of weapons it lowers fatality rates which is obvious.

Not interested in hearing any anti-gun arguments, I already know they're all logically unsound, unstable and frankly, stupid.

Why are you on here on a thread about gun laws then??

a reply to: Kurokage

WHAT!?!?!

Your rates are *only* a mere FOUR TIMES LESS than ours? And you have all the ridiculous gun control??

You're missing something HUGE though Kurokage... OUR GOD DAM# POPULATION IS 350,000,000. YOURS? (the UK) Not even close! A mere SIXTY-FIVE MILLION! Yet you STILL have 1/4th our murder rate? Bunch of degenerates in the UK I guess.... because they have MANY TIMES LESS total population than the US, and Orwellian anti-gun/spying/anti-free-speech laws. Ridiculous. Looks like I've proven socialism is ONCE AGAIN a total failure, as are its adherents.

Now lets look at VIOLENT CRIME rates...which have SKY ROCKETED in the UK and other socialist anti-gun nations. Care to bring up those stats or shall I? What I'm saying is, care to destroy your own argument or do I do it?

You should stop being so entirely dishonest, and stop trying to defend an indefensible failed disgusting ideology that costs THOUSANDS of innocent people their lives at the hands of thugs, Islamists and other violent despicable crims.

a reply to: Kurokage

Why are you on here on a thread about gun laws then??

To demonstrate how stupid and ineffective they are.

To embarrass those who push these childish ideas?

Maybe just to drive the stake through yet another socialist authoritarian's failed and incomplete argument. Yeah, that's the one.

I've explained this before, but I'll make it easy.

With No gun control: most murders are 1) criminal vs criminal (unavoidable) and 2) justified killings of thugs and criminals

With Gun control: most murders are 1) still criminal vs criminal (unavoidable) and 2) illegal murdering of innocent citizens

Gun control = less dead criminals, more dead citizens
No gun control = more dead criminals, all the way around

So yeah, our gun laws are working perfectly.

It isn't the state's job to protect anybody. That is on each of us, individually. We are individuals, not communities. Don't forget that.

a reply to: JBurns

So when are you going to start your purge?.
If they ever take guns away from the mentally ill I'm gonna show the ATF your threads.

a reply to: JBurns

You're missing something HUGE though Kurokage... OUR GOD DAM# POPULATION IS 350,000,000. YOURS?

I'm sorry to say but I'm not missing anything, it's not total population of American vs Great Britain.
Also our crime rates have risen but are still less than American per capita overall!

You should stop being so entirely dishonest, and stop trying to defend an indefensible failed disgusting ideology that costs THOUSANDS of innocent people their lives at the hands of thugs, Islamists and other violent despicable crims.

I'm being honest and trying to show you how incorrect your uninformed posts are.

a reply to: testingtesting

Good for you Proof, or it never happened. And it is BATFE not ATF, but the socialist brain-trust (aka public school) never taught you that, eh?

(you're an unintelligent partisan hack)

But best of luck to you though Too bad no one will be taking my guns, for any reason. Period end of discussion.

I'd love to see you try though.

a reply to: JBurns

Lol.
So that wasn't you with a thread asking to purge the left wing? Or how about nuking US soil?.
Keep it up the ATF will take your guns 1st.

a reply to: JBurns

No gun control = more dead criminals, all the way around

Also means more guns for the criminals as laws have kept gun ownership to a low which means criminals have less access to said guns because criminals steal guns from law abiding citizens. With no gun control criminals are like Charlie in Wonkas chocolate factory. Greedy!!!!!

a reply to: testingtesting

As Wolfie Smith would say "power to the people"!.

a reply to: testingtesting


Makes one wonder if there's a set of different rules for American ATS posters?
back on topic.....

Some members forget that Britain does have Firearms ownership, and that "gun" laws were tightened here because of mass shootings, something that seems to be the "norn" now in America, whilst gun owners seem to only care about their 2nd amendment rights. Instead they should asking why in America people with criminal records, mental health issues, and other legal issues are being allowed to buy fire arms in the first place, and should be marching with the children and not complaining about them when they choose to display one of their rights, "Free speech".

a reply to: Kurokage

Many do not want any checks to do with mental illness because they know their guns will be gone the op for example.

a reply to: JBurns

You seem to misunderstand the concept of rates vs numbers.

The amount of murders per 100'000 of the population is 1/4, not in total numbers.

In other words if you took an average 100'000 from each of the countries, statistically you are 4 times more likely to be murdered if you are from the American group.

US stats for violent crime only look at homicide, forcible rape, aggregated assault and robbery. In the UK however violent crime is defined and included by the Home Office as follows;

"Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.”

As you can see, the reason the UK gets a reputation as more violent is because many more types of offence are included when we submit stats. Things we include as violence are not included in the US numbers.

Like for like (as much as possible considering different definitions of each offence) the numbers per 100'000 for offences the US regard as violent are as follows;

Robbery - UK about 10% higher (however burglary is about 50% higher in the US).
Homicide - US about 4x higher
Rape - Roughly the same (US about 2% higher)
Aggravated assault (UK equivalent GBH) - US just under 7x higher.

Knife crime is about 1.27x higher in tlhe UK.
Fatal shootings (NOT including justifible homicide or suicides) - about 35x higher in the US.

Source

Therefore using the US definition of violent crime, the US is far more violent than the UK.