Jesus allegedly wrote nothing during his life, both up to & during his ministry. Or did he..?, page 1

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 10:29 AM

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An Easter thread which concerns the possibility that Jesus, as the Living Word of God, perhaps applied His divine hand in writing the Bible we have today, also known as the Word of God by many believers - both Jew & Christian alike. Please read & reply respectfully, whether you agree with my interpretation or not - all people are valuable in the sight of God, whether they believe in the divine, or don't (or believe in a different way..) We are free to think in freedom, and that in itself is a divine blessing for consideration at this Easter time.

Hi ATS,

There is a wonderful weaving of spiritual force connecting the evolution of the Hebrew scriptures, with its unique Alphabet ('Aleph' & 'Bet' are the first two characters of the Hebrew script); I believe by way of Jesus' wisdom among the scholarly Jews of the time (as testified in the New Testament gospels & letters). This fact is noted prominently throughout the early writings of the church, promoting the acceptance of the commonly known fact - that He spoke with absolute authority on the way to rightly interpret the Judaic scriptures. He was hailed as a Rabbi - a teacher - by many scholarly Jews & regular folk alike.. And thus it seems likely that these educated & literate early Hebrew/ Christian convert scholars, would want to record in some manner their engagement with him, to record some of those actual, direct thoughts of His. This is not an unreasonable supposition! We would do so today in some congruent applicable circumstance..

However, there is allegedly nothing under the sun which has ever been directly physically authored by this popular, compassionate & wisdom-filled Rabbi, despite the fact that he was a teacher who blessed & healed the impoverished & the sick for years during his public ministry, offering sermons on the Judaic Scripture, enunciating the proper meaning of many mysteries, indeed operating throughout the territory of Israel at that time, almost 2000 years ago. It seems highly probable, given the persecution of Christians & Jews during the first century AD, that if he had indeed written anything of importance, that there would have been an accompanying instruction to the scholars & apostles to keep secret the fact of his authorship, even from the early church members & regular Jewish practitioners of their faith.

I perceive that he could have dictated to scribes engaged in the collation & preservation of earlier writings, instructing them in the sacred language of the modern Hebrew alphabet which I believe was formed by his hand, as a divine evolution of the common scripts in use in those days, specifically for the purpose of this transmission of the power of the Living Word (& for works to be made manifest in the centuries that followed, by the mystics who retained the understanding of this aspect of His purpose on Earth, those holding the keys of knowledge which He provided us with). And herein is my premise - that he re-authored the entire text of the Old Testament which has come down through the centuries to our time, during the time of his spiritual preparation, with the help of sympathetic scholars & scribes, prior to the start of His public ministry at age 30. I believe he was in a position to undertake this task by merit of himself having been in secret communion with God, with certain religious scholars, and perhaps with angels manifest on Earth to minister in support of His human needs (both the spiritual & material). This all occurred probably since the time of His bar-mitzvah at the age of 13, and he would have worked from original source documents which were collated by the priests & scholars in the thousands of years prior. Remember, he was a practising & devout Jew, not a Christian in the sense we think of Christianity today.

My hypothesis now is truly that the Hebrew Bible was written in its final form not by an obscure team of scribes - It was secretly edited into its final form by a single lead author/editor, guiding a team of scribes to copy down his interpretation - and that the author/editor in question was none other than Jesus the Christ, the anointed & living Word of God, the Hebrew Messiah.

He would have called up the totality of the extant Judaic literature, which would have been written largely in Aramaian, Samarian & proto-Hebrew, and used it all as the foundational source material for the 'updated' Hebrew scripture, tying together all the strands of meaning & enabling the extrication of divinely ordained secrets & all instructions from every aspect of the final work. He poured His soul into the work, with literally miracualous/ magical outworkings in terms of the impact it can have on a person's life, changing their hearts from bewildered Darkness to joyous Light, even thousands of years after it was originally composed - and this seems to me to be the main reason as to why the Bible has survived*, because its message has thrived in the transformed hearts of men, women & children down through the generations, across the entire civilised world (while countless thousands of other Scriptures & faith groups, cults & so on, have fallen into utter obscurity, into the mists of time, never to be seen again..) The heart of the message of the Bible throughout the Old Testament is that Justice, Mercy & Humility, when put to work in the service of God & Man, will lead to proper spiritual orientation within the faith - both with respect to Judaism & the emergent Christianity of the time (because ultimately, Judaism will be reconciled to Christianity, and vice versa, according to prophecy - because God had chosen that people/ faith group to be an instrument of His divine will & purposes on the Earth.

*NB - the Islamic written works have survived not by any merit in themselves, but because the sword against the throat of every Islamic believer is poised to strike at any moment if they were to dare to disobey its plainly evil commands & 'ordinary' accepted practices in relation to the world around them. The only 'sign from Heaven' which demonstrated Mohammed's divine mission, as he stated in direct response to being asked for a sign f his spiritual authenticity, was 'the strength of my arm', as he put it. St Thomas Aquinas observed some four centuries later that this is the exact same sign which identifies the robber, the murderer, and the despot. All three denominators could be used to accurately describe Mohammed & his followers, and it has been that way since the inception of that false 'faith'.

A fascinating tidbit is that the early Hebrew language (proto-Hebrew), and early Greek (proto-Greek), were both derived from ancient Phoenician (a sea faring people based in modern Lebanese/ Syrian/ Turkish territory) - and that the language characters were remarkably similar to each other in style & meaning - indeed, so similar that they were apparently originally crafted to be exact mirror images of each other, in terms of the shape (& to some extent the meaning) of the characters - a fact that may indicate a divine hand involved in the evolution of the Hebrew & Greek languages themselves, specifically for the purposes of creating a textual record of spiritual instruction having multiple angles & depths of meaning associated with them both.

Continued below....

FlyInTheOintment

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 10:31 AM

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The Old Testament written in Hebrew, the New Testament written in Greek - this seems not to be a mere matter of convenience, and is worthy of deep thought & dedicated study. All of the diverse source texts would have been originally based upon the oral traditions of the many strands of intermingled trading & occasionally warring peoples of the Middle East, in & around Israel at the time in question (200BC to 100AD) - certainly it is possible that these oral traditions stretch back perhaps many more thousands of years than presently thought, and that they were 'called up' for interpretation & inclusion in the finished Pentateuch/Tanach.

We must bear in mind the deeper meaning of Jesus' attributed & claimed status as the living Word of God, the divine Logos through whom the Creator speaks, of whom John the apostle wrote, being also the anointed one whom the apostle Paul repeatedly expressed we should have faith in, as a foundationally important tenet of the correctly aligned spiritual path.

And yet, being the Living Word of God - why did he never write a single word on papyrus?

We also have the legend accompanying the modern Bible & its origins - that God somehow wrote several of the Old Testament Books directly, with his own hand, so to speak, in a single string of consonant Hebrew letters, without the vowels or punctuation - with the modern compromise acceptance of faith-based belief being that it was compiled & amended from earlier source documents by ordinary humans, but that it was done so supernaturally, with God directing the consciousness not only of the authors of the source documents, but indeed the hand & pen of additional writers, all the way through to the inspired instruction of the editors responsible for protecting its final form - leading to the epithet: "The inspired Word of God".

The Jews were also in receipt of a highly important divine command accompanying the written Word - that not a single dotted 'i' or crossed 't' could be omitted or altered when the scribes were transferring the holy text onto new scrolls - a single mistake, or two at most, would lead to the burning of the entire scroll, enforcing that divine command by insisting that the scroll must always be restarted from scratch, if errors were to occur. Jesus also referenced this important missive when asked about whether the Law remained valid under the terms of the New Covenant, saying that "..Not one jot or tittle of the Law will pass away". This suggests that there is perhaps some mystic power, or a series of deeply meaningful qualia to be determined & analysed, which can combine & act on the material & spiritual universe; a transformative & edifying spiritual force, magic & miracles even, thus arising from the correctly recorded scriptural scrolls. The matter of how important the Hebrew canon actually is to Christianity, is referred to in the Christian (New Testament) Book of Romans, where Paul the Apostle asks rhetorically what value there is in the Hebrew documents:

Rom 3:1 What advantage then has the Jew? Or what profit is there of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much in every way: chiefly, because unto them were committed the oracles of God.

I consider that Jesus compiled & edited the single definitive Book which summarised, exemplified, clarified & consolidated the entirety of the Jewish faith over those thousands of years. He even, I believe, reformed the modern Hebrew alphabet, which in itself is a language full of mystery & layered meanings, with the first obvious encoding being that of the somewhat well-known associated numerology, with each letter also representing a number (a practice known as gematria was developed from this principle, useful as literal oracles for application in determining the correct path of wisdom in any set of circumstances - but it doesn't end there. There are further mysteries of the Hebrew script which I will hope to enunciate later in the thread**. The complexity of interlocking layers of meaning can be perceived through the Rabbinical discourses which are meditations on how to rightly divide & interpret, and apply, the correct understanding of this inimitable complexity.

** See 'The Alphabet that Changed the World' by Stan Tenen, for an excellent introduction to the interpretation of ever-deeper layers of meaning arising from the Hebrew language. Combining that book's theorising with much of the available rabbinic material (try the 'Sacred Texts' archive - a wonderful resource for the historiology & texts of spiritual/ religious writings from across all faith groups the world over)..

Modern Christians refer to Jesus as the Living Word of God, taking their cue from Jesus' own liturgies & sermons, as well as from the Apostle John's naming of Him as the Logos, a part of the Godhead which emanates into all spheres of Creation, taking the mysteries associated with His ministry & the supernatural events following His death, and passing them down through the centuries, with effects manifesting in the miracles performed by & wisdom accumulated by the Christian sages, the monks, nuns, prophets, evangelists, pastoral care groups & ministers who guard the flock.

In the Book of Revelation there is a passage which speaks of a great mystery, which is that in his vision, the Apostle John heard & saw the effects of seven 'thunders' which could perhaps be interpreted as edicts, or statements of spiritual truth, which God the Father reveals - but John is not permitted to write in detail regarding the matters of which the thunders spoke. It was indeed recorded by John that one of God's angels instructed him that the details & meanings of the thunders would be exemplified & explained in the later stages of the development of the faith, at a time in the world when great troubles have gripped the entire Earth, a time when the world is entering the 'end of days'. It is perhaps a time when significant developments in our individual & collective understanding manifest spontaneously - the image of thunder evokes powerful knowledge, a powerful tool for the spiritual liberation of the people, perhaps a hand of protection for those who are otherwise at the mercy of pastiche-territorial warlords in the wake of a third world war. When John spoke in Revelations, and in his gospel, he connected Jesus as the Logos or Word of God, and I believe that there may be a clue as to the summation of those mysteries of interpretation of the scriptures; mysteries which as yet are not fully understood from the scriptures which we possess. Much like the way in which the open-minded scholars of Jesus' time found that by allowing Jesus access to the extant documents, and assisting him in transcribing his interpretation, we are perhaps going to enter a phase in which our collective understanding deepens, as we remain open-minded to the leading & inspiration of God's Spirit among us.

Continued below...

edit on MarchSaturday1813CDT10America/Chicago-050047 by FlyInTheOintment because: clarification

FlyInTheOintment

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 10:31 AM

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The Old Testament as we know it was comprised of dozens of books (39 in fact) containing the mythology & spiritual history of the Jews, preserved orally since time immemorial, before writing was commonly adopted. It had evolved from particular source documents which are incredibly diverse in the locale & time of their discovery, separated seemingly impossibly according to the archaeological & anthropological data, a whirlwind of fragments beset by cultural & spiritual turbulence of belief, of faith, integrity, and the attempt to walk in 'righteousness' before God. And yet, the organising principle, the hand behind the message of the whole book, in the Pentateuch (& Tanach), is consistent - having taken from those myriad source documents to craft not only a systemic mode of interpretation, but also a whole new scriptural tradition of alphabetical character development & usage for the ancient Middle East. The overarching message of this unlikely compilation of documents is only properly understood when seen from overhead, appearing then not as an unruly pile of fragmented scrolls, but instead as a deeply connected, diverse series of injunctions, records & lessons, plus hidden cultural wisdom, from across time & space. The central message is so congruent with Jesus' ministry, so deeply ingrained & suffused through the 'mythological' writings of these earlier source documents (even the prophetic writings of the oldest Old Testament document, the Book of Job), that a divine hand seems most likely the answer to the question of who formulated & smoothed out that rich tapestry of coherence in a form which can be readily understood as having myriad deeper meanings, all codified by use of this remarkable Hebrew script, their Aleph-Bet.

The Pentateuch & Tanach comprises the five books of the Law, the several books of Wisdom & the major & minor Prophets, as were known by the Jews, and based on the aforementioned coherence of the message - which is difficult to understand at first glance, and takes some significant reading, taking in the full Biblical record to begin to comprehend the matter.

It is apparent to me that a single editing authority was responsible for the treasure hunt which is riddled throughout the restructuring of those source documents, with the use of a reconstructed language pattern being at once the map & the treasure...!

All those books were apparently held & edited into final form by the scribal schools of the time - with the modern academic consensus agreeing that the final process of editing the books of Law, the books of Wisdom & those of the Prophets, as having occurred some time between the second century BC, and the first century AD. This is congruent with the time of Jesus' human life & resurrected presence in Israel (with that resurrected presence & form recounted to myriad people in the area, by upward of 500 witnesses - an incredible testimony to the truth of the matter).

And this spreading of 'the Word' was perhaps at once both a literal & figurative statement of faith. A rewritten Pentateuch, with a newly divided means of its interpretation (the original script was said to have been transcribed in an 'automatic writing' type of manner; a string of Hebraic consonants - single letter characters - being recorded in one long block of text, undivided & initially meaningless). Only after it had been received in this form was 'the Word divided' by the adding of character attributes; punctuation marks & the insertion of vowels. Only then did the stories, the admonitions, the regulatory statutes, the centrally encoded message of divine favour & grace (etc), become apparent. As noted, the Jews had been entrusted with 'the oracles of God'. It seems likely to me that Jesus wrote the larger block of text detailed above, representing the 39 books of the Old Testament canon - which was then also divided by Him & set into its current form.

The prophetic attributes of the Hebrew text - though limited somewhat (it is fact that the books of the Wisdom literature & the Books of the Prophets were more focused than the Law on the predictions of a coming Messiah) - were seen to directly relate to the deliverance of 'spiritual Israel' by God through the Messiah. A fact of Jesus' life was that his divine nature & ability/ style of interpretation of the Law, the Wisdom literature & the Prophets didn't match the human-oriented interpretations held fiercely by some of the more zealous groups of religious scholars which were present in Jesus' day & age. More open-minded & tolerant groups of scholars, and individual persons within the wider circle of negativity-oriented Pharisees & Sadducees, did in fact come to believe in Jesus as Messiah. However, their influence was limited by the actions & beliefs of the membership majority in those groups.

It is my strong conviction that the references to how Jesus spoke in the temples, and '...amazed certain religious Jews with his wisdom' (paraphrased), demonstrate the circumstances which led to an invitation by those scholars, probably due to Jesus' alignment with supernatural confirmations experienced by the temple scholars & scribes - an invitation by which Jesus was able to compose/transcribe the full detail of the books of the Law, Wisdom & the Prophets, in the restructured alphabet divinely arrayed with deep meaning, hidden beneath any surface reading - which could not be fully appreciated until modern times, when modern research techniques, computers & huge pools of data to be sifted from the Internet became available to the researchers involved.

It is apparent that such an incredible secret was very, very carefully guarded by the allies of Jesus in his actions to undertake the mission of rewriting the Old Testament in a revised, modern Hebrew alphabet, and that in accordance with his instructions, this 'fifth column' group of scholars & scribes, embedded within wider Judaism, covertly seeded the full text of the Old Testament as recorded by Jesus, doing so in different locations at different future times after the crucifixion, teaching from it in synagogues around the known world, until it eventually became abundantly clear to the Jewish diaspora, following the sack of Jerusalem in the first century AD, that this updated form of the alphabet, and the interpretation of the Law, Wisdom & Prophets was divinely inspired, thereby superceding & supplanting any formerly held documentation & dogma (mainly), and ultimately, realising the alteration of certain perceptions of the Judeo-Christian faith group itself - leading to the structures & practices of modern Judaism, which support the beliefs of New Testament Christians all over the globe.

Concluded below...

edit on MarchSaturday1813CDT10America/Chicago-050033 by FlyInTheOintment because: clarification

FlyInTheOintment

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 10:32 AM

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So what do you think? Could Jesus have been instructed by divine mandate to complete a secret rewriting of the totality of the Old Testament..? Being the Living Word of God, in that capacity did He fulfil a secret mission to record a written work which in essence was a revision of the Old Testament canon, likely using new language patterns in so doing...? I'm sure there are many academics who would maintain positions of disagreement with my interpretation of the updated Hebrew alphabet, and the reworking of the Old Testament itself (aligned in a new light with the New Testament letters & gospels so as to demonstrate the coherence of the divine message of salvation throughout all phases of the written history of the Judaic people). Is it thus feasible that Jesus enhanced the embedded meanings to be found deeper in the Word of God, both Old & New Testament, even to the point of smoothing out new language patterns which could lead to extraction of further meaning at the level of the alphabet itself...?

Thanks for reading this somewhat clumsy attempt to explain my thoughts on the matter - I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers, FITO.

AgarthaSeed

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 11:18 AM

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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Well written but I respectfully disagree

For multiple reasons, but to focus on one in particular: How do you explain the difference in the overall depiction of God between the Old Testament and Jesus' teachings? If taken in a literary sense, the tone and character of God is drastically different. If looked at from an ideological view, YHWH from the Old Testament was a jealous, spiteful, and murdering God who only chose to speak to a select few people. From what we know, Jesus taught quite the opposite.

In your opinion, if Jesus actually authored the OT, what would be the purpose in depicting God in two drastically different ( and ) conflicting ways?

the2ofusr1

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 11:18 AM

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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Wow great post .Could be you are right but until someone somewhere at some time in the future uncovers ...I am not even sure what could be discovered that would prove your point . Its a giant subject . I will leave this long vid which is a series of talks on the dead sea scrolls which is a very big subject also . Lots and lots of dots though

radarloveguy

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 12:11 PM

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S&F

You have certainly done your homework on this one,

and I agree with you completely .,

Jesus changed history through His Divine accomplishments,
and through them He became the 'go to' guy on all matters
spiritual . His revelation/revolution is the NT , one that cost
Him His life ...

His bravery and Love will endure and outshine the greatest critic ,
.... and we all know who that is ....

Raggedyman

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 12:37 PM

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So Jesus a man hated by the Jews was able to control every scroll in every place a scroll was kept by Jewish authority, change them all, every copy, while being persecuted

How did He pull that off, replace every copy of every scroll

It's absurd

Ove38

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:16 PM

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originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
Jesus allegedly wrote nothing during his life....

Jesus writes,

John 8:8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground.

Pontius Pilate wrote a few words about Jesus

John 19:22 "Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written"

FlyInTheOintment

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:37 PM

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a reply to: AgarthaSeed

In your opinion, if Jesus actually authored the OT, what would be the purpose in depicting God in two drastically different ( and ) conflicting ways

I think he was being respectful of the source documents, and to be honest, his ways are not our ways - perhaps the whole purpose of a contradictory (in a surface reading) Bible is to promote debate & discussion on the nature of God, His attributes, and so on...?

FlyInTheOintment

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:42 PM

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a reply to: Raggedyman

The scrolls were seeded into libraries by agents of the conspiracy, naturally! What I mean to say is, that the source documents did not necessarily disappear - but a NEW source was created, one which tied together the elements of truth in the ways that only God knows. Certain providential events again conspired to ensure that the principle documentary source for the Pentateuch & Tanach were those written by His hand. This thought experiment does not require the destruction & loss of all pre-existing source documents, but Providence ensured that the right documents fell into the right hands, at the right time, in the right place, ensuring that the primary source for what was transmitted down through the centuries to become our familiar Bible, was that which was originally authored by his hand.

FlyInTheOintment

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:45 PM

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a reply to: Ove38

I was aware of the dust writing incident - but I was angling on the papyrus record, not the writing in the dust which blows away with the slightest breath of wind..

But good point, I should have included a reference to that event.

Perhaps there is a related metaphor associated with that dust writing incident - maybe he was indicating that His word was written in the very fabric of the cosmos, the dust of the earth itself..? Intriguing...

the2ofusr1

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 04:36 PM

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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Included in the book of Revelation are 7 letters to 7 Churches . One could imagine that those letters dictated by Jesus to John creates Him as a author of original material . There is good reason to believe that Paul only wrote one letter himself while using someone else to write the others .

EasternShadow

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 06:54 PM

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originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
I think he was being respectful of the source documents, and to be honest, his ways are not our ways - perhaps the whole purpose of a contradictory (in a surface reading) Bible is to promote debate & discussion on the nature of God, His attributes, and so on...?

So that Judaism and Christians split up and form many denominations and confusions for the past 2000 years? Then threaten us with Sheol or hell?

I'm sorry. I don't believe god is being that illogical.

EasternShadow

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 07:17 PM

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Two oldest known complete biblical manuscripts are 4th century Greek septuagint and 8th century Latin Vulgate. They are not even the original source.

The oldest known Septuagint fragments is written 2nd century BCE. None were written at Jesus frame life.

Dead Sea scrolls fragments is estimated 150 BCE to 70 CE. Yet none can be identified as Jesus's handwritten.

The oldest Hebrew Tanakh ( Masoretic ), the Aleppo Codex was written 920 CE and Leningrad Codex 1008 CE.

Every single oldest manuscripts written in various languages are way off from Jesus time frame.

How do you explain that?

EasternShadow

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 07:52 PM

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originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
An Easter thread which concerns the possibility that Jesus, as the Living Word of God, perhaps applied His divine hand in writing the Bible we have today, also known as the Word of God by many believers - both Jew & Christian alike.

Jesus never say such thing. It was John who made the claim.

As I said in the other thread. The Logos is Platonism with Greek Logia to turn man made theos.

Judaism never teach such things. Jesus was teaching Judaism to the Jews that He was the messiah and the lamb of god meant to be sacrificed, as indicated by John the Baptist.

But the gentiles greek Platonism and Neoplatonism scholars, had to had their hand on god's word. Then said, "Wow that's cool. We just create new ideas."

Elcabong

posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 11:58 PM
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

And herein is my premise - that he re-authored the entire text of the Old Testament which has come down through the centuries to our time...

So then Jesus actually does approve of slavery?

whereislogic

posted on Apr, 1 2018 @ 01:19 AM
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originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
How do you explain the difference in the overall depiction of God between the Old Testament and Jesus' teachings? If taken in a literary sense, the tone and character of God is drastically different. If looked at from an ideological view, YHWH from the Old Testament was a jealous, spiteful, and murdering God who only chose to speak to a select few people. From what we know, Jesus taught quite the opposite.

There is no difference. God is not spiteful. The negative image of the God you describe as "YHWH from the Old Testament" is all in your mind (and often involves convenient argumentation supported by cherry-picking verses or stories from the Hebrew Scriptures that can be more easily twisted out of context or painted as some negative aspect of God, one could do the same to the Christian Greek Scriptures if one wanted to). Your argument isn't new either and validates (,confirms and demonstrates) the truth found in the Hebrew Scriptures at Eccl.1:9:

What has been is what will be,

And what has been done will be done again;

There is nothing new under the sun.

Does God Change? Awake!—2000

The Bible’s Viewpoint

Does God Change?

ANTHROPOLOGIST George Dorsey described the God of the “Old Testament” as “a savage God.” He added: “Yahweh is . . . utterly unlovely. He is the God of plunderers, of torturers, of warriors, of conquest.” Others have reached similar conclusions regarding the God of the “Old Testament”—Yahweh, or Jehovah. Thus, some today wonder whether Jehovah was in fact a cruel God who eventually changed his character to become the loving and merciful God of the “New Testament.”

Such an idea about the God of the Bible is not new. It was first propounded by Marcion, a semi-Gnostic of the second century C.E. Marcion repudiated the God of the “Old Testament.” He considered that God to be violent and vindictive, a tyrant who offered material rewards to those worshiping him. On the other hand, Marcion described the “New Testament” God—as revealed through Jesus Christ—as a perfect God, a God of pure love and mercy, of graciousness and forgiveness.

Jehovah Meets the Challenge of Changing Conditions

God’s very name, Jehovah, means “He Causes to Become.” This implies that Jehovah causes himself to become the Fulfiller of all his promises. When Moses asked God his name, Jehovah elaborated on its meaning in this way: “I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.” (Exodus 3:14) Rotherham’s translation puts it this way: “I Will Become whatsoever I please.”

So Jehovah chooses to become, or proves to be, whatever is needed to fulfill his righteous purposes and promises. An evidence of this is the fact that he bears a wide array of titles and descriptive terms: Jehovah of armies, Judge, Sovereign, Jealous, Sovereign Lord, Creator, Father, Grand Instructor, Shepherd, Hearer of prayer, Repurchaser, happy God, and many others. He has chosen to become all of these—and much more—in order to carry out his loving purposes.—Exodus 34:14; Judges 11:27; Psalm 23:1; 65:2; 73:28; 89:26; Isaiah 8:13; 30:20; 40:28; 41:14; 1 Timothy 1:11.

Does this mean, then, that God’s personality or standards change? No. Regarding God, James 1:17 says: “With him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow.” How could God meet the challenge of varying circumstances while remaining unchanging himself?

The example of caring parents who shift roles for the sake of their children illustrates how this is possible. In the course of a single day, a parent may be a cook, a housekeeper, an electrician, a nurse, a friend, a counselor, a teacher, a disciplinarian, and much more. The parent does not change personality when assuming these roles; he or she simply adapts to needs as they arise. The same is true of Jehovah but on a far grander scale. There is no limit to what he can cause himself to become in order to fulfill his purpose and to benefit his creatures.—Romans 11:33.

For example, Jehovah is revealed as a God of love and mercy in both the Hebrew and the Christian Greek Scriptures. The prophet Micah of the eighth century B.C.E. asked about Jehovah: “Who is a God like you, one pardoning error and passing over transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? He will certainly not hold onto his anger forever, for he is delighting in loving-kindness.” (Micah 7:18) Similarly, the apostle John wrote the famous words: “God is love.”—1 John 4:8.

On the other hand, in both parts of the Bible, Jehovah is presented as the righteous Judge of those who repeatedly, grossly, and unrepentantly violate his laws and harm others. “All the wicked ones [Jehovah] will annihilate,” said the psalmist. (Psalm 145:20) In a similar vein, John 3:36 states: “He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.”

Unchanging in Qualities

Jehovah’s personality and cardinal qualities—love, wisdom, justice, and power—have not changed. He told the people of Israel: “I am Jehovah; I have not changed.” (Malachi 3:6) This was some 3,500 years after God’s creation of mankind. True to that divine statement, a close examination of the Bible as a whole reveals a God who is unchanging in his standards and qualities. There has been no mellowing of Jehovah God’s personality during the centuries, since no such mellowing was needed.

God’s firmness for righteousness, as revealed throughout the Bible, is no less nor his love any greater than it was at the beginning of his dealings with humans in Eden. The differences in his personality seemingly demonstrated in various parts of the Bible are in reality different aspects of the same unchanging personality. These result from the differing circumstances and persons dealt with, which called for different attitudes or relationships.

Hence, the Scriptures show clearly that God’s personality has not changed over the centuries and will not change in the future. Jehovah is the supreme embodiment of constancy and consistency. At all times he is dependable and trustworthy. We can always rely on him.

The same God who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah . . .

. . . will bring about a righteous new world

Some years ago there was another poster (Malocchio) on here doing the same thing regarding Marcion's argument. Some people really do 'like' to demonstrate Eccl.1:9, or they just can't help it.

Quoting FlyInTheOintment:

"...perhaps the whole purpose of a contradictory (in a surface reading) Bible is to promote debate & discussion on the nature of God, His attributes, and so on...?"

Well, for me it's mostly helpful in recognizing the usefulness of Eccl.1:9 and other related verses regarding human behaviour and ways of thinking and arguing. Since there is no contradiction in the way God is described in the Hebrew Scriptures and Christian Greek Scriptures. People are inventing them and leaving out inconvenient facts to support their argumentation. There are of course plenty of contradictions in the Trinity doctrine cause it's not a biblical doctrine.
edit on 1-4-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

whereislogic

posted on Apr, 1 2018 @ 01:51 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic
A little more about Marcion's way of thinking and arguing (a self-professed "Christian").

Is the “Old Testament” Still Relevant?

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Many feel the same way about the so-called Old Testament. They appreciate its account of Israel’s history and admire its beautiful poetry. Yet, they doubt that it is reasonable to follow guidance that is more than 2,400 years old. Scientific knowledge, commerce, and even family life are very different today from what they were when the Bible was written. Philip Yancey, a former editor of Christianity Today, writes in his book The Bible Jesus Read: “It doesn’t always make sense, and what sense it does make offends modern ears. For these and other reasons the Old Testament, three-fourths of the Bible, often goes unread.” That thinking is not new.

Less than 50 years after the apostle John’s death in about 100 C.E., a rich young man named Marcion publicly asserted that the Old Testament should be rejected by Christians. According to English historian Robin Lane Fox, Marcion argued that “‘God’ in the Old Testament was a ‘committed barbarian’ who favoured bandits and such terrorists as Israel’s King David. Christ, by contrast, was the new and separate revelation of an altogether higher God.” Fox writes that these beliefs “became ‘Marcionism’ and continued to attract followers, especially in the Syriac-speaking East, far into the fourth century.” Some of these ideas persist. As a result, over 1,600 years later, writes Philip Yancey, “knowledge of the Old Testament is fading fast among Christians and has virtually vanished in popular culture.”

Has the Old Testament been replaced? How can we reconcile “Jehovah of armies” in the Old Testament with “the God of love and of peace” in the New Testament? (Isaiah 13:13; 2 Corinthians 13:11) Can the Old Testament benefit you today?

“Written for Our Instruction”

“TO THE making of many books there is no end.” (Ecclesiastes 12:12) The glut of printed matter available today makes those words as true today as when they were written. How, then, can a discerning reader decide what deserves his attention?

When contemplating a book that they might read, many readers want to know something about the author. . . The identity of a writer is important, . . .
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Sadly, as noted in the preceding article, some ignore the Hebrew Scriptures because they believe that the God portrayed therein is a cruel deity who destroyed his enemies without mercy.
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Why, then, does it seem to some that the God revealed in the Hebrew Scriptures is different from the God of the Christian Greek Scriptures?

The answer is that different aspects of God’s personality are revealed in different parts of the Bible. In the book of Genesis alone, he is described as feeling “hurt at his heart,” as the “Producer of heaven and earth,” and as “the Judge of all the earth.” (Genesis 6:6; 14:22; 18:25) Do these differing descriptions refer to the same God? They certainly do.

To illustrate: . . . It is just that various aspects of his personality become apparent under different circumstances.

Similarly, the Hebrew Scriptures describe Jehovah as “a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth.” Yet, we also learn that “by no means will he give exemption from punishment.” (Exodus 34:6, 7) Those two aspects reflect the meaning of God’s name.
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Have the Hebrew Scriptures Been Replaced?
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Jesus used the Hebrew Scriptures throughout his ministry

I skipped a lot to keep it a bit shorter this time.

AgarthaSeed

posted on Apr, 1 2018 @ 01:54 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

So you're basing your argument on the idea that God has never changed and you tie in Eccl 1:9 in attempts to prove that?

Where to even begin with that, I don't know. Let's start with putting aside your religious beliefs for a moment and looking at The Bible in a literary sense. In the scriptures, God goes by multiple names depending on the translation and particular book. Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim, and Addonai. This is because the "Hebrew Scriptures", as you call them, are actually a conglomerate of Egyptian and Mesopotamian source material.

But regardless of what name he was given, it's stated clear as day that God murdered quite a few people in the Old Testament. Hundreds of thousands actually. He alsosent plagues and even sent a disease to Jehoram to cause his bowels to fall out! ( 2 Chronicles 21:14 )

Before going any further, are you denying that The Bible states this?