Oaklahoma to use Nitrogen for executions

a reply to: Oldtimer2

thats good if you dont have to clean up the mess

originally posted by: violet

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: FredT

All of it is needlessly complicated. There was nothing wrong with execution by hanging, firing squad, or Old Sparky, so why in the hell did they ever need to go to lethal injection in the first place?

There was the electric chair too. What happened to this?

Bleeding hearts happened. A couple of pieces of human filth didn't get their head sponges put on wet enough and jittered a bit too long while their brain cooked instead of them getting the full heart stopper voltage and the "Oh no, it's cruel and unusual punishment" piss and moan started. Most states abandoned it's usage.

It used to happen more but people who worked in big tanks - rail cars, oil storage, underground storage, would succumb to lack of oxygen, either they used it all up or the tank was full of a different gas. It's similar to carbon monoxide poisoning They would have no warning, no coughing, no sore throat. Survivors report just feeling sleepy and that's that.

If one is going to engage in the death penalty, one does not have to be cruel about it and owes it to oneself - not to the criminal - to do it as humanely and compassionately as possible.

The OP says nitrogen sounds needlessly complex but all that's needed is an old fashioned gas chamber and a tank of nitrogen. One wonders why it hasn't been done that way for the last century. And one also wonders why poison gasses had been used, such as by the Nazis - instead of using intert gas to replace the oxygen.

Here, they used to use the gas chamber: en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: MteWamp

originally posted by: Blueracer
Trust me, if you're in high school, and you and your friends are taking huge hits of helium from a tank because you're young and stupid, and think the "helium voice" is really funny, and you take it a bit too far, your O2 WILL get displaced.

Helium is usually much safer because it's significantly less dense than air at the same temperature, so it tends to rise fairly quickly. Nonetheless is can still be dangerous in an enclosed space.

...

That all is true especially when inhaled in large quantitates. We do use Heliox on kids its a 20% Helium /80% oxygen mixture. Especially for kids with bad asthma. The mixture offers less resistance in narrowed airways thus makes it easier to breathe. You could in theory d the same with a condemned murderer and gradually blend in higher concentrations of helium till you get the desired effect.

originally posted by: LanceCorvette
It used to happen more but people who worked in big The OP says nitrogen sounds needlessly complex but all that's needed is an old fashioned gas chamber and a tank of nitrogen. One wonders why it hasn't been done that way for the last century. And one also wonders why poison gasses had been used, such as by the Nazis - instead of using intert gas to replace the oxygen.

Here, they used to use the gas chamber: en.wikipedia.org...

Hmmmm. You talking about mass genocide versus the execution of a murdered. But nevertheless I agree the use of chemical gas is ridiculous for executions as is the electric chair etc. It can be just this simple:

1) Obtain vascular access via IV, or inter osseous catheter
2) administer a continuous infusion at lethal dosages till the patient's respiratory drive ceases. This can be either an opioid (like morphine, fentanyl, etx) or a benzodiazepine (like versed, Ativan, valium etc). Once respiratory drive ceases, hypoxia will ensure a painless execution

originally posted by: doobydoll
I can't believe I'm reading a 'how-to' on killing people. Some of you are medically trained too.

I know the ones condemned to die have done bad things in their lives, but all you folks coming up with new ideas to efficiently kill them makes you just as bad as them. I'm horrified that medically trained people with their valuable and wonderful skills are discussing ideas of killing other people. It's psychopathic. Here's me thinking you're supposed to help save lives, not end them.

Execution is pre-meditated murder. How can planning with intent to end the life of another person be a crime when perpetrated by a member of the public, but not a crime when perpetrated by government?

I know what the condemned have done are very bad things but killing them for it doesn't undo their crimes, it just makes the state a murderer too.

Hmmmm, where do you stand on medically assisted suicide and abortion?

There you are asking medical personnal to basically use their skills to kill people. The only difference is that one case, the person wants to die and in the other someone else wants the person to die.

We also have our vets kill animals all the time -- euthanasia. We call in mercy then.

So suck it up.

I wonder ... what methods are used for medically assisted suicide? Let's just use those.

a reply to: FredT

Stupid question alert! Stop reading unless the opportunity to ridicule an idiot is too tempting.

So many people die from heroin OD and it's often a quiet death. Why isn't it used for executions?

a reply to: FredT

nitrogen is actually way simpler :

it can be used on an un-coperative victim

it can be delivered via a half face mask and stage one // stage 2 demand regulators

its cheap -

it has no " abuse value " -

in storage // handling - its safer than medical oxygen // entenox

its fast acting , painless , and error free

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: doobydoll

Execution is not murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person. There are a couple of instances where killing is legal. This is what courts decide when murder trials happen.

Execution being one of them.

But it is premeditated murder when a person or group of people conspire to decide and arrange the death of another person. When govt does this or appoints others to do this, it's called 'execution', which is just 'law' word to justify legalised premeditated murder.

Different words that describe the same intent and same act.

Bummer.

Personally I think a 72' VW Super beetle would be just as effective.

Hell, make it a Rolls, with the exhaust in in the back window.

Bottle of Jack and a lude, dude will go out happy.

Gotta take out the tranny tho so he don't try to go anywhere.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: FredT

Stupid question alert! Stop reading unless the opportunity to ridicule an idiot is too tempting.

So many people die from heroin OD and it's often a quiet death. Why isn't it used for executions?

It has more to do with not mentally scarring the witnesses to the execution. the attorneys, family members of the victim and the accused, media etc... Without going into backstory, watching someone die from an overdose isn't anywhere near as peaceful, calm and quiet as is popularly believed. It's rather unnerving to watch someone lapse into unconsciousness and struggle to breath, so,regimes they convulse and then there is watching someone choke to death as they aspirated on their own vomit. A lot of the objections to methods of execution have more to do with what the witnesses are forced to see than the suffering of the condemned. Personally, I find it a bit uncivilized and the chance of executing an innocent person makes it even less palatable to me. I saw enough death in the 10th Mountain Div. to last me several lifetimes. I'd prefer to avoid the continuance of finding the quickest, easiest or most palatable method of ending another persons life short of my own or my families lives being threatened.

a reply to: peter vlar

Personally, I find it a bit uncivilized and the chance of executing an innocent person makes it even less palatable to me. I saw enough death in the 10th Mountain Div. to last me several lifetimes.

I'm not a supporter of the death penalty either. Despite that, it can be an amusing measure of the ageing process. I've always been 100% against it and recently find myself revising the position. Is it because of experience, reason or the well-reported tendency for people to get more black and white as they get older?

Perhaps there's a questionnaire that scores a person's age based on their evaluation of execution and it's role in society? Joking.

The heroin OD thing seems like a kind way to end a life. Yes, some are rib-breakingly painful and doused in vomit. Many others are like settling back for a nap and not waking up. Easy on the onlookers and especially for the one marked for death.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Perhaps my point of view is skewed as my experience with extreme opiate overdoses weren't under supervised medical conditions. Or at least the degree of supervision I would hope occurs at a state sanctioned execution. One of them was basically out of it and had no recollection of the events after the fact so that would be the ideal scenario. Another one I can't ask his opinion because he lapsed into a coma and while semi functional now 23 years after the fact, he suffered permanent brain damage and the others are no longer with us. My options were limited while waiting for EMS.

In the army I was as trained to deal with gunshots, sucking chest wounds, shrapnel and things of that nature. Watching your friends de in front of you because of their own stupidity isn't something I was ever prepared for. It's not something that ever quite leaves you when his parents are comforting me at the funeral and not the other way around.

I hope for their sake that it's similar to when I died for a short time after I stopped breathing during a grand mal seizure. I don't remember the seizure or EMS working on me and thankfully my wife is a Registered Nurse and performed rescue breathing on me after clearing my airway and I started breathing on my own before the ambulance got here. From what she described, it was pretty similar to what I had witnessed when lost my friend so if there is some similarity once the brain stops operating at a conscious level then it would be completely painless as I don't remember dying and didn't see any tunnels or lights.

After getting hurt and being discharged from the military I decided that it wasn't a very civilized thing to go around killing people in retribution and as an alleged first world nation and leader of the free world, think it's time to put some of our more barbaric practices to rest. Especially if there can be even the smallest shred of doubt over the guilt/innocence of!the condemned then I would prefer to err on the side of caution.

Then again, our POTUS wants to become like Thailand and the Phillipines where executions and extrajudicial killings of people involved in the illegal drug trade are as commonplace as complacency in American society. I much prefer Portugals take on narcotics where it's treated as a public health issue and not a criminal one. Overdose deaths have drastically been reduced as have HIV, hepatitis and other blood born diseases and the number of Heroin addicts is something like 1/3 of what it was before the changed the law because people had more opportunity to seek treatment without fear of being stigmatized. But that's a whole other thread for another day!

a reply to: peter vlar

You've had quite a life.

Then again, our POTUS wants to become like Thailand and the Phillipines where executions and extrajudicial killings of people involved in the illegal drug trade are as commonplace as complacency in American society.

He's been saying it again overnight so it looks like he'll make it happen. UK pundits are saying the legal resistance could last for years. Give it a week and a lot of people will change their minds and start asking, "Why shouldn't we execute dealers?" It's already started. Curiously, there are some who believe it's worth a few innocent people as long as the majority were guilty. It's a minority view, but it's out there. There's also the strand of logical reasoning that implicates the innocent person by dint of their being in the frame at all. It's circular at best, "Well if you were accused, you probably deserved it."

I much prefer Portugals take on narcotics where it's treated as a public health issue and not a criminal one.

Scan nations are very similar with some places decriminalising heroin use as long as users agree to medical oversight. Crime goes down, ODs go down and there's no real saving of families so it isn't all 'win.' It's profoundly better than incarcerating them in dehumanising prisons.

a reply to: Kandinsky


No approach to any of this is going to be perfect unfortunately. The irony of it all is that with mandatory appeals for all death penalty cases, they end up costing the tax payers far more than a life sentence with no chance of parole. The appeals can drag out for decades in some instances so I just don’t see the point enacting Bronze Age Hammurabi style retribution. If we are promoting ourselves as “better than them” then we should do just that. Be better than murderers. And killing drug dealers for essentially providing a service to willing participants is even more egregious from a moral perspective. Let’s be honest, their biggest crime is in not giving the government a cut because it’s not taxed. As for your initial statement above, when I’ve a little more time and I’m not in my way to bed since I’m 5 or 6 hours behind you, I’ll give up some of the ghost. Or as much as I can within the T&C! It’s definitely an interesting tale that runs the gammut. That I’m still upright most days amazes me and it’s definitely one of those “truth is stranger than fiction” stories.

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: doobydoll

Execution is not murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person. There are a couple of instances where killing is legal. This is what courts decide when murder trials happen.

Execution being one of them.

But it is premeditated murder when a person or group of people conspire to decide and arrange the death of another person. When govt does this or appoints others to do this, it's called 'execution', which is just 'law' word to justify legalised premeditated murder.

Different words that describe the same intent and same act.

Bummer eh? Especially when they catch ya for killing my sister!

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: FredT



Darn ...... I was looking for a Liquid Nitrogen type execution where the condemned was flash frozen like the Hans Solo character was in the early Star Wars mythology series.


flash freezing the guilty would allow for the frozen corpse to be shattered into pieces like a plate glass window if the guilty perp. was a particularly low-life kind of mass murderer

Solo was encased in Carbon or something like that.

Shoot me.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
When I read nitrogen I was thinking in the terms of a big vat of liquid nitrogen. My bad....

Then smash to pieces like a pinata.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: FredT

All of it is needlessly complicated. There was nothing wrong with execution by hanging, firing squad, or Old Sparky, so why in the hell did they ever need to go to lethal injection in the first place?

Libs.

originally posted by: violet

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: FredT

All of it is needlessly complicated. There was nothing wrong with execution by hanging, firing squad, or Old Sparky, so why in the hell did they ever need to go to lethal injection in the first place?

There was the electric chair too. What happened to this?

Old Sparky is the chair.

Gilmore chose firing squad.

They won't take me alive!!