The College Dream About to Burst?

I'm with you on the fact that nepotism and cronyism are everywhere. From what I've seen, it only gets more prevalent the higher the level of jobs or the more powerful the org/people involved. In the policy and gov world, it's exactly what you described.
a reply to: eManym

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


It's funny because many of the schools still teach rigorous ethics: no anonymous sources, rigorous fact-checking and so on; the same rigor still required by most newspapers and completely ignored by cable TV "news."

a reply to: toysforadults

Mostly state colleges. My degree was not easy, either.

a reply to: JAGStorm

There isn't 3.1 million trade jobs out there.

At best most of those kids without a degree will be wprking in a warehouse or as machine operators for 28k a year.

You won't get interviewed for anything without a degree.

You can join a union and do an apprenticeship bouncing from company to company for 4-6 years with downtime for up to months at a clip between jobs.

Thats the economy these kids are facing after college.

I'm a tile setter. I also install and refinish hardwood floors and the pay hasnt only stayed the same over the last 25 years tile pays LESS than it did ten years ago per square foot.

Yet all of my cost wrnt up.. Gas tools everything cost more.

That's not it either a commercial job gets pushed back by government inspectors I'm out of work for 6 weeks scrambling to find residential work for myself and our crews. Jobs wont pay for 3-4 months waiting for banks to clear checks. I mean it really sucks.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


Actually well positioned for corporate communications, copywriting, PR and a raft entry level management jobs at a major corporation, as the number one skill a manager requires is effective communication, tailored to a specific audience.

originally posted by: eManym
a reply to: toysforadults

Mostly state colleges.

I'm getting a degree right now from a school called WGU in Networking with a security emphasis.

The reason I chose this school was because the school made the mandatory IT certifications part of the curriculum.

For insyance. In order to pass my first networking class I had to get a CompTIA Net+ cert.

I just passed the Cisco ICND1 for another networking class and In preparing for the CCNA routing and switching exam right now. That will be worth 6 credits.

I know from experience the CCNA and CCNA security are in demand. Only reason I chose the school.

a reply to: toysforadults

After spending almost 100k on my degree, which doesn't include accrued interest that the US Government is charging, there is no way I will spend thousands more for all the certs companies are now requiring. I would say skip the college and just get the certs. Only problem with that is companies will require both college degrees and certs. This is to lower the number of applicants in the pool.

IMO, the cert mill is rigged for profit because most ensure there is an 80% failure rate on their tests regardless of how much a test taker has studied.

a reply to: eManym

Exactly.

Thats exactly why I chose the program I Did.

I did a search on Linkedin for people with degrees from WGU and every single one of them was in a management position

My degree by the time I'm done will cost around 20k.

I will also have these certs

CCCNA
CCNA Security
Security +
Network +
A+
Linux+
Project+
CIW web development

But most importantly the piece of paper that says I went to school.

Oh luckily the program has probability and statostics and college algebra although I was hoping for more and I'm teaching myself Cython as a value add for scripting and programming. There are scripting and programming classes but its not deep enough.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Good god!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I would drive my kids down to the Air Force recruiter and drop them off. Here Son/Daughter, talk to this nice Tech Sargeant. Ask him about the GI Bill. I will see you in a couple months after you have finished your technical training as a med tech, aircraft maintainer, or other great career field that you can use later on in life. In the mean time you will learn people and management skills, can learn more about yourself than you ever thought. You are welcome.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I'm with you on the fact that nepotism and cronyism are everywhere. From what I've seen, it only gets more prevalent the higher the level of jobs or the more powerful the org/people involved. In the policy and gov world, it's exactly what you described.
a reply to: eManym

It isn't what you know, it is who you know. Even better, it is what you know about who you know!

a reply to: eManym

That is truly madness. Not to get off topic, but automation seems to be having the effect predicted, which is that employees will suffer. I have heard you can't even get into fast food now without some sort of college. It's like that commercial with your brain on drugs...just an out of control spiral. Makes me wonder what to tell my grandkids!!!!!!!

a reply to: lakenheath24

Very, VERY easy problem to fix. Return to the pre-Clinton days when student loans could be discharged in bankruptcy. This will instantly return us to the common sense days of "Oh, you're applying for a federally subsidized loan? What's your degree in? Ha! The arts?!?! Yeah, right... the risk is too great. Get a job and pay your own way, loan denied."

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Sure, in theory. Except there is no way the gubment is going to let go of interest on $1.5 trillion in loans. It will take a bubble bursting like the dot.com or housing mess.


Has anybody got kids in HS? I was wondering if anyone is attending these partnership schools. In Florida, corps like Embry-Riddle and Microsoft offered college credits and certificates while still in HS, plus an inroad into a technical degree that people like Lockheed and Boeing want. This is a great story of corporate partnership in Cincinnati, and other places.

www.educationworld.com...

So a schmuck doesn't do the necessary homework on the current job market and ends up with a MM degree and blames the school ?, my son got into 50k debt and I pitched in 25k to get him an Engineering degree, it took him 6 months to get a good job with a start pay of 50k a year... maybe in 5 years he's gonna be making more that his old man...

a reply to: lakenheath24

what they need to do is limit loans to only valuable courses no money for stuff like public speaking and the like instead focus on sciences, mathmatics, engineering , medicine. we waste to much money helping kids get worthless degrees.
was going to take a class at local college years ago and one of the courses was ebonics i got up and walked out.

a reply to: manuelram16

Really, are you and your son schmucks for needing $25k to get a degree he couldn't afford because he and his old man didn't do their homework on how much an engineering degree costs? And maybe he doesn't get a better job....who can say.

a reply to: proteus33

Holy smokes, that reminded me of the funniest video....ever!

addiary.wordpress.com...

I agree with limiting loans, but like I said, I highly doubt that the Government is going to let go of all that interest on $1.3 trillion dollars until that bubble bursts. THEN, we will all be paying for those college deans and their overpaid professors and staff.

a reply to: lakenheath24
Sorry to say this but you're not making sense, did you read past the first sentence ? FYI my son is starting his Engineering career and I'm also an Engineer making 100k....

In 1987, then-Secretary of Education William Bennett argued that “... increases in financial aid in recent years have enabled colleges and universities blithely to raise their tuitions, confident that Federal loan subsidies would help cushion the increase.”[57] This statement came to be known as the “Bennett Hypothesis.” In July 2015 (revised in March 2016), a Staff Report was published by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, the conclusions of which indicate that institutions more exposed to increases in student loan program maximums tend to respond with disproportionate raises in tuition prices:

In this paper, we use a Bartik-like approach to identify the effect of increased loan supply on tuition following large policy changes in federal aid program maximums available to undergraduate students that occurred between 2008 and 2010. We construct institution-specific changes in program maximums as the interaction of an institution exposure to the maximums in each aid program (the fraction of qualifying students) and the legislated program maximums. We find that institutions that were most exposed to these maximums ahead of the policy changes experienced disproportionate tuition increases around these changes, with effects of changes in institution-specific program maximums of Pell Grant, subsidized loan, and unsubsidized loan of about 40, 60, and 15 cents on the dollar, respectively.[1]

The federal student loan program has been criticized for not adjusting interest rates according to the riskiness of factors that are under students' control, such as choice of academic major. Critics have contended that this lack of risk-based pricing contributes to inefficiency and misallocation of resources in higher education, and lower productivity in the labor market.[3] However, recent research indicates that while high levels of student loan debt, coupled with high default rates, present a number of challenges for individual student loan borrowers and for the federal government (which must cover the defaults through taxes), they do not necessarily place a substantial burden on society at large.[58]

After the passage of the bankruptcy reform bill of 2005, both federal and private student loans are not discharged during bankruptcy (prior to the passage of this bill, only federal student loans were unable to be discharged). This provided a credit risk free loan for the lender, averaging 7 percent a year.[59] In January 2013, the "Fairness for Struggling Students Act" was unveiled. This bill, if passed, would once again allow private student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy.[60] The bill was referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee where it died.[61]

Some critics of financial aid claim that, because schools are assured of receiving their fees no matter what happens to their students, they have felt free to raise their fees to very high levels, to accept students of inadequate academic ability, and to produce too many graduates in some fields of study. About one-third of students, whether or not they graduate or find jobs that match their credentials, are financially burdened for much of their lives by their debt obligations, instead of being economically productive citizens. When those former students default on their obligations, the burdens are shifted to taxpayers. Lastly, the proportion of graduates who come from poor backgrounds has actually declined since 1970.[62]

In 2007, the Attorney General of New York State, Andrew Cuomo, led an investigation into lending practices and anti-competitive relationships between student lenders and universities. Specifically, many universities steered student borrowers to "preferred lenders" that charged higher interest rates. Some of these "preferred lenders" allegedly rewarded university financial aid staff with kick backs. This led to changes in lending policy at many major American universities. Many universities have also rebated millions of dollars in fees back to affected borrowers.[63][64]

The biggest lenders, Sallie Mae and Nelnet, are criticized by borrowers. They frequently find themselves embroiled in lawsuits, the most serious of which was filed in 2007. The False Claims Suit was filed on behalf of the federal government by former Department of Education researcher, Dr. Jon Oberg, against Sallie Mae, Nelnet, and other lenders. Oberg argued that the lenders overcharged the United States Government and defrauded taxpayers of over $22 million. In August 2010, Nelnet settled the lawsuit and paid $55 million.[65]

In an effort to improve the student loan market, startups like LendKey, SoFi (Social Finance, Inc.), Konsolidate and CommonBond were founded to offer student loans and refinance loans at lower rates than traditional repayment systems using an alumni-funded model.[66][67] According to a 2016 analysis by online student loan marketplace Credible, about 8 million borrowers could qualify to refinance their loans at a lower interest rate.[68]

The New York Times published an editorial in 2011 in support of allowing private loans to again be discharged during bankruptcy.[69]

In June 2010, the amount of student loan debt held by Americans exceeded the amount of credit card debt held by Americans.[70] At that time, student loan debt totaled at least $830 billion, of which approximately 80% was federal student loan debt and 20% was private student loan debt. By the fourth quarter of 2015, total outstanding student loans owned and securitized had risen to, and surpassed, $1.3 trillion.[71] This rising student debt is contributing to the expanding wealth gap.[72]

With each passing year, student debt continues to rise. Nearly two-thirds of undergraduates are in debt. By graduation, their student loan debt averages around $26,600. One percent of graduates leave college with $100,000 or more of student loan debt. In 2013, the federal debt had grown to $16.7 trillion. Six percent of that debt comes directly from student loans making student loans only second to mortgages in consumer debt. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau reported that as of May 2013, federal student loan debt had reached $1 trillion bringing the total number for outstanding student loan debt to $1.2 trillion. However, this amount does not include what students take from savings accounts, borrow from parents, or charge to their credit cards in order to pay for their education. In actuality, the burden of student debt is much greater than these numbers indicate.[73] The Federal Reserve Bank of New York's February 2017 Quarterly Report on Household Debt and Credit reported that 11.2% of aggregate student loan debt was 90 or more days delinquent in the final quarter of 2016.[74]

en.wikipedia.org...

trends.collegeboard.org...