The College Dream About to Burst?

I think another area that is inflating and warping higher education is this relatively recent push that everyone is supposed to go to college, and should want to. This is also part (not all) of the reason the job market is over saturated with even practical degrees. Everyone and their mother has an mba or law degree. Their purchasing power isn't what it once was. a reply to: lakenheath24

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Check out this stat in my OP....of 3.1 million H.S. grads in 2016, 2.1 million were enrolled in college afterwards. That's insane, and points to HS's pushing college instead of alternative employment. Perhaps its a side effect of the PC culture where everyone needs a trophy.
I'm not gonna lie, I joined the military because I was NOT ready for college. Not cuz I was dumb, but because I hated school and had no idea what I wanted to do. You kow, a normal kid. LOL
Now I have a 3.3 GPA because I work hard at it and I am doing it for me. But not every 18 year old kid should go to college. There needs to be a better-advertised alternative, like Tech schools, apprenticeships or whatever.

originally posted by: trollz
From my own personal experience, college has been completely useless. I'm less than 2 months away from graduating with a BS and I've learned practically nothing from the actual college courses. I have one of the main core classes this last semester. We meet every other week. The professor will talk about news for a while to take up time (I complained previously about his courses being too short when they were sometimes over after just 45 minutes) before flipping through some powerpoint slides without discussing them. What's the weekly homework? Read a chapter in a book and do a quiz with a whopping 5 questions. I've had another class on campus where the professor would literally just come in and sit down at his desk and do nothing the entire class. I kid you not. We all had to just sit there and figure out what we were doing on our own. There were times when students tried to ask questions, but the professor had no idea how to do the things he was supposed to be teaching in the first place, so he had to ask the other students for help. Yes, the professor had to actually ask his students for help to do the work he was supposed to be teaching.
The online classes have been no better... Log in, read a chapter, do a quiz. For like $2,200 per class. I'm paying $2,200 to be told to read a book that I could buy for like $50 and actually own when I'm finished reading it.

I've learned more in a fraction of the time from just reading and watching free online content. If your goal is to actually learn, do it on your own time and money. Don't pay a college thousands of dollars to read a book that you can read on your own, possibly for free. If the career field you want to get into looks for special certifications, study for those instead. A guy in my class said how his friend did a 2-week online course, got a certificate, and because of that certificate, got snatched up into a high-paying job... For 2 weeks of learning as opposed to 3 or 4 years.

Well, you've still got two months left. That gives you the advantage for looking for a job. Still being on the course means you rate higher to employers than someone who is unemployed. There was a Chinese guy in our research lab who always applied and started the next job while he was still completing the previous course. Employers look for someone who can start between one and two months.

Professors are paid to do research and do teaching as a side show, so they don't always know the topic they are teaching. So what they would usually do is teach from an undergraduate textbook that someone else wrote.
Those undergrad textbooks are really just a summary of all research done so far. Technology is moving so fast, that by the time you spent two years learning something, the rest of the industry has moved on to the next generation. Look how fast Windows moved from 95/NT/XP/Windows 8/9/10.

When it comes to doing PhD research, you are asked to read through recent research papers, write a few papers, eg. a STAR (State-Of-The-Art) report of where the industry is, and where it is going, your experiments, then you build up a dictionary of buzz-words, figure out what they all mean, how they relate, figure out what new directions you could explore and then do your experiments, log the results, and write some conclusions. Final write-up includes adding a glossary, references and credits. You would do all that doing a home project.

Universities realized there was money to be made from bringing in international students. The government allowed them to charge 3x for an international students as for a British student. There was also an expansion period where polytechnics became universities. We've do have a shortage of engineering and arts graduates (film/advertising) but it's having a perfect match between technical skills, communication and work experience.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I think another area that is inflating and warping higher education is this relatively recent push that everyone is supposed to go to college, and should want to. This is also part (not all) of the reason the job market is over saturated with even practical degrees. Everyone and their mother has an mba or law degree. Their purchasing power isn't what it once was. a reply to: lakenheath24

It is a huge problem. Part of the issue is that culturally since the 60s, college has been seen as way to riches. No one wants to be blue collar from a social standpoint. You can't really blame parents though for wanting their kids to have an easier life. However, I think the attitudes are misplaced in looking down on those in trades or not in office suites.

Ironically, most college students don't have the aptitude for college OR the trades, imho. Most kids growing up these days never did any real work with their hands, even as a hobby. They don't work on cars. They don't build anything. They can barely use a hammer. This creates a real conundrum.

The problem is you need a degree for jobs that don't require them and you cant get passed any HR filters without them

I'm getting a degree in network engineering. I think its easy but I work hard

originally posted by: nerbot
The value of an education cannot be measured by a financial investment...

It most certainly can with the more prestigious universities carrying more cache then the local community college.

While you can shop around at the mid-tier level and find a school more closely aligned with your aspirations the typical graduate of say, the Ivy League or well known technical schools are going to see a much better ROI on the financial investment.

I work in care and we have many people there who have degrees but can not get a job with them, I said years ago they are sending too many to Uni and there will be not enough jobs for them.
Many of the people who learnt a trade are doing much better than those who went to Uni.
The girl in the OP should have picked a better degree tbh.

The 'State' was created to benefit the people, all the people not just a few who work in government. But state government has become self serving. The State governments are in the front row to fleece and steal from the people. Education is just one of many methods. Most states constitutions provide for free education at least through high school, yet they damn will send you bills for fees every single year. Just a legal racket is what it amounts to.

a reply to: stormcell

What an excellent synopsis. I love how you made it sound like BS...but serious at the same time. For my BS in Marketing, I learned to write a 20-page paper in 1-2 nights by just going to the internet and finding 10 reputable sources. After a while, you start seeing the same names quoted. After that, you just plug in some fancy adjectives, make sure to put in some transitions and use a ton of citations. BAM, you look smart...on paper anyway. Oh, and download Grammarly!

P.S. I like to go to Wiki, but you skip to the bottom and just go to all the original sources.

a reply to: testingtesting

Imagine the Pandora's box if she wins and others hear about it! However, most likely it will be settled out of court with a gag order attached. There is an article about small print in the OP and how it is nearly impossible to sue a University.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Check out this stat in my OP....of 3.1 million H.S. grads in 2016, 2.1 million were enrolled in college afterwards. That's insane, and points to HS's pushing college instead of alternative employment. Perhaps its a side effect of the PC culture where everyone needs a trophy.
I'm not gonna lie, I joined the military because I was NOT ready for college. Not cuz I was dumb, but because I hated school and had no idea what I wanted to do. You kow, a normal kid. LOL
Now I have a 3.3 GPA because I work hard at it and I am doing it for me. But not every 18 year old kid should go to college. There needs to be a better-advertised alternative, like Tech schools, apprenticeships or whatever.

Absolutely. It's mostly related to the social justice and anti poverty push via education. I think that it's totally a good thing to identify low income kids who are both smart and truly want to go to college, and then help them get there. But in that motive, education justice folks try to push all of them to go. Ironically, relevant to your op often many of them don't get practical degrees and/or end up saddled with tons of debt. Some of them are successful, which is wonderful when it happens.

I'm like you. I wasn't ready at 18 to go to college. I didn't know what I wanted nor was i motivated. So I worked a number of jobs for a few years, from retail to construction. Then at 22 I was ready to go back, and did really well. I went from almost dropping out of high school to getting a very high GPA in undergrad.

You are right, we need better guidance for kids, from parents to school counselors to politicians. There's nothing wrong with trades or tech school, and for many people it's a better fit.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I think another area that is inflating and warping higher education is this relatively recent push that everyone is supposed to go to college, and should want to. This is also part (not all) of the reason the job market is over saturated with even practical degrees. Everyone and their mother has an mba or law degree. Their purchasing power isn't what it once was. a reply to: lakenheath24

It is a huge problem. Part of the issue is that culturally since the 60s, college has been seen as way to riches. No one wants to be blue collar from a social standpoint. You can't really blame parents though for wanting their kids to have an easier life. However, I think the attitudes are misplaced in looking down on those in trades or not in office suites.

Ironically, most college students don't have the aptitude for college OR the trades, imho. Most kids growing up these days never did any real work with their hands, even as a hobby. They don't work on cars. They don't build anything. They can barely use a hammer. This creates a real conundrum.

Right. There's been this idea that all or most kids have the aptitude and "neuro plasticity," if one can just provide them services and a good k-12 education before college. All gaps are purely sociologically derived in that view. While there are definitely kids with lots of potential who have limited options due to poverty, it might not be true for others.

Especially once someone gets to advanced complex fields, from science to philosophy to politics or economics, I think maybe gaps in aptitude reemerge. I know lots of people with relevant degrees who aren't dumb, but definitely seem to not be as bright or as deep as others in the field. Often they may have simplistic or dogmatic views of the field.

Question, what does one do if they don't have aptitude for either trades or academics?

Double

Question, what does one do if they don't have aptitude for either trades or academics?

Welfare.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Question, what does one do if they don't have aptitude for either trades or academics?

I mean, there are basic jobs. Then we get into issues of living wages, out of control housing costs, a toxic push in the US to not live with family, etc. In most of the world there's no shame living with family long into adulthood.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Question, what does one do if they don't have aptitude for either trades or academics?

Welfare.

You make a great point.

Some simply dont have the mental capacitity for high end problem solving and in the trades you require management abilities to do just about anything.

a reply to: testingtesting

You dont have a choice. You wont even get an interview without getting passed HR filters.

Starting a business is out of reach unless you can afford a capital investment.

I work in the trades and the jobs pay what they played 20 years ago the only sifference is that the cost of business went up.

Education is most definitely a scam. Up until about the 80's, college degrees meant something to employers. Nowadays the jobs requiring people with college degrees and experience are obtainable by people with high school, work experience, social connections and no college debt.

I am a graduate with a degree in IT and experience. I see this quite often. He or she is a relative of someone in management just show them what to do or basically be their babysitter. They will work for less and before you know it the company dumps you in the street.

College tuition runs about 15K per year if a student goes all three terms for a given year. Graduate degrees are even more than that. I don't see how the average is 38K for a degree unless a students parents pay for the majority of the cost of the degree or the degree is financed through government retirement.

For innovation, companies hire short term contractors.

a reply to: eManym

Where did you get your degree?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I've said for years part of the problem is the timing of college. It actually shouldn't be right after high school. I really honestly believe it should start at 21. We should have kids doing something else, at the age 18-21, community service work, trade work, military service for 2-4 years like other countries, just about anything but college.
I think it is very rare for person to know exactly what they want to do or study at 18. Their brains are just not formed well enough and they have not had enough real world experience yet. It used to be ok if you didn't know want you wanted in college at 18, because let's face it, it used to be a lot more affordable and that decision wouldn't haunt you for the rest of your life. Now one mistake could cost tens of thousands. One of my kids brought up a school to me in Florida, tuition/ room board for a year is 59K per year, that's right folks four years is 236K for an art degree. Many people do not even have a mortgage of that cost. I think part of the problem are the parents that aren't being honest with their kids and showing them the full ramifications of students loans of that magnitude!