Italy becomes the next European country to fall to a populist, anti-migrant wave, this one featuring

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

First of all, leaving the EU has some beneficial elements to it for those who are NOT raging xenophobes, incapable of accepting that all human beings, regardless of origin or ethnicity, are worthy of respect and compassion, unless they are actively invading your country in a military fashion, with planes, tanks, and warships. A swimming pool flotation device or a rickety fishing boat do not qualify as any such thing, so immigration and invasion are not the same thing.

Assuming your enemies are the structures which underpin both the UK government and the EU government (both of which only exist in their current form because of webs of military, financial and industrial corruption that are very old, very well established, and toxic), the only way to defeat either, is to separate Britain from the EU, and its support networks on the continent. That way, you gain a chance for the people to claim the power in the country, power they can use to correct the imbalances in their society, correct the way labour is valued, so that the shop floor carries greater financial power than the executive, turns trickle down, into from the bottom up. That being achieved, with the people properly valued by the government (because the people are not merely represented by, but ARE the people), they will have less fear for their futures, because the majority will be in jobs which actually pay well enough to live on, to purchase property on, laws can be written to prevent a person owning property for the sake of it, meaning that house prices will plummet as they cease to be commodity items, and start to once again only have any value as homes to be dwelt in by their owners. This relative calm, even if it costs some trying times initially, will mean that the people are less prone toward being fooled by propagandists into right wing positions, which are, as any reasonable analysis of history or current affairs will show, are not adopted by people who are being treated well by their government.

You cannot say the same thing of the Italian situation. What is happening in Italy, is like the British National Party, or the English Defence League, forming a government here in Britain, which, for all this nations many faults, will not happen, ever, on pain of bloody murder of any twit who tries to make it happen.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Maybe I shouldn't have asked.

leaving the EU has some beneficial elements to it

Yes it does.

the only way to defeat either, is to separate Britain from the EU, and its support networks on the continent. T

This I too, agree with.

You cannot say the same thing of the Italian situation.

I can and I did. Because the whole train is riding on one track. It doesn't matter where the train is because it's still attached to 'the same track'. Meaning, everything they've done has one purpose, one goal. They don't care how they get there, and they don't care about how the majority feel about it. It wouldn't matter if everything veered off to the left or right, as it's purpose is to end up in the same place. Patting your head and giving you what you think you need with one hand, while the other is wielding a knife waiting for the big kicker when they screw everyone.

Do you understand what I mean?

a reply to: Lagomorphe

All true, yet it omits enforced cultural change.

Apparently, the natural changes in culture aren't fast enough for these people. The efforts to speed that process up is resulting in 'cultural changes' not anticipated. Hence the so-called populist movement.

In my view 'populist' can be defined as 'none of the above' political parties.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

I understand what you are getting at, but I think its utterly incorrect to think of these two situations the same way, or to believe that, under the correct circumstances, powered from the correct position in society, there is no difference in outworking, between a left wing, people powered movement of a compassionate and hardy sort, and a right wing movement based on phobic thinking, which fails entirely to address the ACTUAL causes of financial woes both at ground level or in national terms.

FACT:

Phobic scapegoating is ALWAYS a sign of a depraved and totally untrustworthy movement, which can only result in a violent and callous regime.

You see, a group of people who want to free workers from the poverty line by rebalancing the value applied to work and pay, and correct the injustices done by previous governments to other nations around the world, is merely just, fair, decent and noble. Opposition to it, given that it victimises no one, serves everyone, and given the lead, will do the most good for the most people with the resources it has, is resistance against the people.

A group of people who want to blame everything on people who are defenceless and without agency in their lives, is by definition toxic and unjust, violent and dangerous. One must be supported, the other destroyed every time they try to raise a flag, or a vote.

Fascism must end. The continuation of the species itself requires it.

When in Rome do as the Romans do.
you might then find the Romans are more accommodating.

But yes you leave a country to move to another, enjoy all it's benefits, freedoms and protections, to then just bitch about how much you hate its culture and how you wish to impose laws and ways of said country you claim to be escaping on your new home.... well you kind of gotta expect the locals are gonna tire of that # pretty quick.

It's not racism. It's not bigotry. It's common sense.

I welcome all into my nation. But as we say here. "Fit in or # off!"

Makes less sense when such visitors bypass hundreds of culturally similar nations on their way to Western ones they know is a lifestyle not suited to their ways and beliefs.
But of course, 'economic refugees' are not a thing are they....

I hate barely covered women. I hate women having equality and freedom.... so let's move to the west..... because I hear those Aussies make a lot of money... I'm sure we can convert them to our backwards sky fairy ways in noooo time.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

A couple of things to point out.

Rabidly anti-fascist, anti-corporate, anti-corruption voters, turned out to vote for Brexit. No anti-fascists are voting for the proudly fascist elements in Italian society at the moment. People in general are, but people who have learned well the lessons of the past, are not.

Comparing Brexit to this matter is fraudulent and obscene.

Its an easy mistake to make though, isn't it? Most of the MSM push the trope that Brexit was old white racists who never had an O level between them.
They do this to make it more palatable for those in power to overturn the will of the people.
I can see how it is easy to conflate Brexit with Trump, Le Pen and 5 star, because it's rammed down our throats all the time. (I do see more equivalence between Brexit and Trump, I must say, the others, not so much. Though Beppe Grillo is a good listen).

a reply to: TrueBrit

laws can be written to prevent a person owning property for the sake of it,

Do you own more than one shirt? Why do you push for stripping a persons assets? You condone theft by the flick of a pen.

a reply to: TrueBrit

A group of people who want to blame everything on people who are defenceless and without agency in their lives

Defend this

Looting A Store With A JCB Dublin Ireland
www.abovetopsecret.com...

. . . this gang calls themselves 'The Pesties' and are allegedly of African origin. They have been terrorising people prominently in the west and north of Dublin, carrying out vicious assaults on delivery drivers and taxi men.

Why is it wrong that people don't want their country taken over by foreigners, people that look nothing like them? I really don't see anything wrong with that and I say this as a black man. Honestly, it's probably Russian agents supporting pro-immigration policies -- that hurts and divides a country far more than memes ever will.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

You cannot steal what cannot be earned, only taken.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Thats one gang. Tell you what, why not look up the number of hate crimes in Dublin, then look up the number of hate crime convictions in Dublin, then get back to us.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Good for Italy. It's amazing that the two parties with the largest vote shares were fringe Partys just a few years ago.

They voters are telling our elected officials what they want. The Status Quo has lost control.

Italy has always had problems with it's political system, they can't seem to get one idealogy in a position to enact meaningful changes for a long enough period.

The new rise of nationalism and populism in Europe is directly caused by the failure of EU's policies and their iron-handed implementation.

The EU is run by an oligarchical, unelected and ideologically-driven elite that do not operate within reality. Many have drawn comparisons with the end of Communism in Europe. I think it's an apt comparison. The elites insist everything is fine and business should continue as usual despite growing popular belief, based on experience, that everything is not fine.

pushing austerity forcing severe cuts in healthcare and welfare that benefit nobody but the rich, open borders that undermine local workers, favouring of multinational corporations over the small local business and the European working/middle class (the same thing for all intents and purposes) and numerous others.

These policies have done nothing but increase unemployment, lower the standard of living and worsen the general economic well being of European citizens across the continent. We need only look at Greece to see the outcome of the EU's policies.

Really the ideal opponent to the EU would be a traditional left winger with a somewhat nationalist bent. But the mainstream media, who support the EU by and large because their ideology happens to line up with theirs, promote the agenda that those who oppose the EU are Fascists.

By doing that they make the people Fascists. Because thanks to their nonsensical drivel Fascism looks like a better alternative to what the EU is.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Expect more ??EXITS ion the coming years!

No, the EU are making sure that no one will be able to leave the EU once the UK go. The EU are not helping a smooth process with the UK and in some areas (like Ireland) are acting in a away that will encourage divisive politics. Countries already lashed to the EU by the German-led Euro will stand no chance.

And its these games why I am very anti EU.

I was extremely pro EU at one time. But the fact is I grew tired on there sheer blindness to there own faults and fact they refuse to do anything to reform. They have had countless warnings and opportunity to sort there problems out but have refuses. The UK referendum should have forced them to get there act together but even then they REFUSED to do anything.

And they still have a insane drunk as its president!

It is a a hopeless corrupt mess that needs to just fail.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Thats one gang. Tell you what, why not look up the number of hate crimes in Dublin, then look up the number of hate crime convictions in Dublin, then get back to us.

Statistics (that I could find) provided by an entity that gets funding from a group with an agenda, headed by someone posting the following on an apparently popular blog.

Because I am a Girl I ask… that you treat women as you would like to be treated yourself.
Because I am a Girl I believe… in the innate goodness in people.
Because I am a Girl I hope… that equality is achieved in my lifetime.
Because I am a Girl I wonder… why we are not ashamed of inequality and poverty.
Because I am a Girl I dream… and snore.
Because I am a Girl I remember… my mother and her mother and her mother…
Because I am a Girl I like… people with passion, principles and ideas for making a difference.
Because I am a Girl I dislike… not paying my way.
Because I am a Girl I feel… loved and loving.
Because I am a Girl I… want others to feel free and powerful.
– Tina Roche

Those are all wonderful concepts. But in a land where wrong think on Facebook lands you jail time, how can we trust those statistics and assume that every instance reported were legitimate instances of racism when zero tolerance is the name of the game?

originally posted by: rockdisjoint2
Why is it wrong that people don't want their country taken over by foreigners, people that look nothing like them? I really don't see anything wrong with that and I say this as a black man. Honestly, it's probably Russian agents supporting pro-immigration policies -- that hurts and divides a country far more than memes ever will.

Thank you, I completely agree. I'm a hispanic male, and there are two countries I would love to visit and/or move to one day.....Japan and Norway. Now, if I ever am lucky enough to go to any of these places, I will not try and make them change for my sake, nope, I will adjust to and respect their cultures/customs. Hell, that's a big chunk of why I want to visit/move to these places, I love their culture, so why would I want it changed??

I see nothing wrong with embracing the culture of the land you move to, but I see everything wrong with trying to change that culture to meet your own needs/wants.

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Good for Italy!

It's time people started taking their countries back from those who wish destroy the way of life of that country.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

Actually its "vive les differences" which means long live differences...

Lol!! Thank you for that .... blame google

I double checked on google and thats what I got!!!

Cultural differences are some things that many people forget :

Regardless of where you live on this great, big Earth, chances are you will eventually interact in some way with a culture that is different from your own.

When most people think about culture, their first thoughts involve race or ethnicity.

Culture goes far beyond that, however. In fact, we are all members of various cultural groups and our cultural identities develop based on the influence of these memberships.

Like most things that make you who you are, the development of your cultural identity is an ongoing process.

As we are exposed to different sets of beliefs and values, we may adopt other cultural beliefs that were not part of our original makeup. In this way, culture is dynamic and complex.

Linkywink for those who want to take their time to learn : owlcation.com...
Lags

That for me is what I call intergration ..... not this you will take X amount of

immigrants regardless of your current economic situation or ability to cope with

more people than can be coped with at the time.


Isn't that most of what causes friction between the resident people and newcomers?

We are all humans and there is but one race. what you are speaking of isnt scientific. There are differences in ETHNICITY and culture but scientifically speaking we are all the same species/race

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Why would anyone want to be part of the EU. U know they are unelected and Banking puppets right? I thought the left always hated the wealthy yet they want to be enslaved by them. Classic Stockholm syndrome.

originally posted by: yuppa

We are all humans and there is but one race. what you are speaking of isnt scientific. There are differences in ETHNICITY and culture but scientifically speaking we are all the same species/race

When you get down to basic's


A human being is an animal with intelligence part of the primate group.

A dog is an animal too, however I think you have to acknowledge there are

many varying 'breeds'. ...

All dogs but not the same and mostly they get treated with equality.

We humans have domesticated them and that is probably why today there

are breeds and they are not all mongrels.


Even while you are calling everyone 'the same' some of the very people you

are including dont want to be like you? (while I am saying 'you' I dont mean

you personally) just trying to get my point over.


I like to think we are all different, but.....equal It is disingenuous

in my view to ignore the reality of differences trying to not notice or pretending

they dont exist.

Life would be so boring if we only ever amounted to being carbon copies of each

other.