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America & Guns
page: 4share:
a reply to: GafferUK1981
Please take no offense. It is simply one our foundation stones and that will not easily go away.
It is because we had to overthrow our keepers by creating a private militia of armed citizens that would become key in the winning of our revolution.
We have are guns if we need to heed the call of freedom and overthrow our tyranny.
This was decided in 1776. When we won our freedom from Great Britain.
Please take no offense. It is simply one our foundation stones and that will not easily go away.
It is because we had to overthrow our keepers by creating a private militia of armed citizens that would become key in the winning of our revolution.
We have are guns if we need to heed the call of freedom and overthrow our tyranny.
This was decided in 1776. When we won our freedom from Great Britain.
edit on 15-2-2018 by Newt22 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Boadicea
Nope,
What I had was your article that showed that, in an exceptional circumstance, we have a few stabbings, COUNTRYWIDE, in one day and I pointed out that in just a single city in the US you have VASTLY more shootings every single day and (despite that city having a population considerably smaller than London) and used this to point out that saying that knife crime would simply take over from gun crime (and then using that article to try and make your point) is a daft statement.
But you ignored all that and went on a "oh how could you mock those poor victims" (whom I never even mentioned)
Indeed.
Noted.
Nope,
What I had was your article that showed that, in an exceptional circumstance, we have a few stabbings, COUNTRYWIDE, in one day and I pointed out that in just a single city in the US you have VASTLY more shootings every single day and (despite that city having a population considerably smaller than London) and used this to point out that saying that knife crime would simply take over from gun crime (and then using that article to try and make your point) is a daft statement.
But you ignored all that and went on a "oh how could you mock those poor victims" (whom I never even mentioned)
Indeed.
Noted.
edit on 15-2-2018 by Indrasweb because: (no reason given)
a reply to: BlueJacket
Oh, did I say you were an idiot? Or did I say the statement you made was idiotic?
I can't remember, could you quote me please?
Thanks
Oh and my 'retort was to point out that, objectively, British food is some of the best in the world. London alone has 79 Michelin stars.
Now is that to say that all British food is great? Nope. But it's a lazy stereotype that "British food is bad"
And if you think simply regurgitating lazy sterotypes qualifies as humour then, I don't know what to tell you..
Oh, did I say you were an idiot? Or did I say the statement you made was idiotic?
I can't remember, could you quote me please?
Thanks
Oh and my 'retort was to point out that, objectively, British food is some of the best in the world. London alone has 79 Michelin stars.
Now is that to say that all British food is great? Nope. But it's a lazy stereotype that "British food is bad"
And if you think simply regurgitating lazy sterotypes qualifies as humour then, I don't know what to tell you..
edit on 15-2-2018 by Indrasweb
because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: GafferUK1981
We awoke today in Britain to the news that there has been another mass shooting in America. The question again is how does America stop these events from occurring? To me the answer is plain and simple, gun control, taking away the weapons will stop this from happening but as I skip through threads here and on facebook pages it's obvious that no matter how many of your children are massacred you will not hand over your guns.
You will never disarm Americans... NEVER.
So you can just go ahead and remove that one from your playbook cause it ain't gonna happen.
What we need is better school security. Our kids' schools should be just as safe as an FBI building.
a reply to: GafferUK1981
I don’t post often, but I feel compelled to. “American” food is a microcosm of America itself. It’s origins come from Cuba, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Germany, China...you get the point. We are a former colony of the prolific British Empire who earned our freedom in the blood of our forefathers, with guns and galvanizing principles. One such principle is John Locke’s ‘Natural Rights’ which include a basic human right of self-defense, property ownership, and a means by which to live.
We are also a massive nation with hundreds of millions of people in urban areas, but also tens of millions living in rural areas. Many of those rural areas could fit the entire footprint of the UK within them. We have farmers with thousands of acres of crops to protect, ranchers with thousands of head of livestock to protect, and we all have the right to personally protect our family and property. And, in America we have the choice on how we wish to exercise that right.
Our country has more guns than people, the vast majority of which will never be used in a violent crime. But, when a criminal comes a knocking on our doors, you can bet he is armed. Most police are amazing people who do a fine job, but I can’t wait for a 10 minute response time should my family be in danger. That’s my job to protect them, my number one priority in this life.
Drugs are illegal, rape is illegal, murder is illegal, it’s diesnt stop criminals because they disregard the law. If guns are banned, the law breakers will still have them. In a nation this size with so many weapons, there will always be a healthy black market for them. And, who do you think will have them? You guessed it...criminals.
Not to mention the number of guns which pour across our southern border. Remember, we aren’t a small island nation, and our poor country to the south of us is a bastion of guns and drugs who need our nation to purchase product. Just like prohibition, you can bet illegal guns will drive demand for them. And, the consumers will be inner city thugs who buy them dozens at a time and sell them to petty criminals on the street.
Be rational about this, nobody wants to see people hurt, especially children. But, firearms are tools, this is a people problem.
I don’t post often, but I feel compelled to. “American” food is a microcosm of America itself. It’s origins come from Cuba, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Germany, China...you get the point. We are a former colony of the prolific British Empire who earned our freedom in the blood of our forefathers, with guns and galvanizing principles. One such principle is John Locke’s ‘Natural Rights’ which include a basic human right of self-defense, property ownership, and a means by which to live.
We are also a massive nation with hundreds of millions of people in urban areas, but also tens of millions living in rural areas. Many of those rural areas could fit the entire footprint of the UK within them. We have farmers with thousands of acres of crops to protect, ranchers with thousands of head of livestock to protect, and we all have the right to personally protect our family and property. And, in America we have the choice on how we wish to exercise that right.
Our country has more guns than people, the vast majority of which will never be used in a violent crime. But, when a criminal comes a knocking on our doors, you can bet he is armed. Most police are amazing people who do a fine job, but I can’t wait for a 10 minute response time should my family be in danger. That’s my job to protect them, my number one priority in this life.
Drugs are illegal, rape is illegal, murder is illegal, it’s diesnt stop criminals because they disregard the law. If guns are banned, the law breakers will still have them. In a nation this size with so many weapons, there will always be a healthy black market for them. And, who do you think will have them? You guessed it...criminals.
Not to mention the number of guns which pour across our southern border. Remember, we aren’t a small island nation, and our poor country to the south of us is a bastion of guns and drugs who need our nation to purchase product. Just like prohibition, you can bet illegal guns will drive demand for them. And, the consumers will be inner city thugs who buy them dozens at a time and sell them to petty criminals on the street.
Be rational about this, nobody wants to see people hurt, especially children. But, firearms are tools, this is a people problem.
originally posted by: GafferUK1981
a reply to: Martin75
Let me just clarify something for you, we don't want to take your guns. Don't feel that the Brits are coming for your guns, we might not be perfect but our society hasn't yet degenerated to the point where we feel we need to kill others to be safe.
Let me think, how would this kid not having a gun stopped him from shooting people, hmmmmm that's a hard one ha ha ha
Can't you deal with mental health and guns, does it have to be one or the other?
Let me clarify for you
Do we ban cars and alcohol to combat drunk driving?
According to cdc.gov
How big is the problem? In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (29%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States. Of the 1, 1,132 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2015, 209 (16%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.
But I never see posts made about that.
So it's the number killed in one day that bothers you?
Teen Driver Cell Phone Statistics. 11 teens die every day as a result of texting while driving. According to a AAA poll, 94% of teen drivers acknowledge the dangers of texting and driving, but 35% admitted to doing it anyway. 21% of teen drivers involved in fatal accidents were distracted by their cell phones.
EdgarSnyder link
How many post have you made about that?
The ignorance, bull#, and hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. I'm done here.
a reply to: GafferUK1981
It's just not going to happen. No one wants to give up anything for a crime they didn't commit, much less when it involves one of the foundational rights the country is built upon and that is highly valued by a large segment of society. Furthermore, the long standing and increasingly toxic political climate makes a such a change in public attitude on such a highly contentious social issue impossible and likewise, any attempt to force the issue through legislation very likely would not go well at all.
It's just not going to happen. No one wants to give up anything for a crime they didn't commit, much less when it involves one of the foundational rights the country is built upon and that is highly valued by a large segment of society. Furthermore, the long standing and increasingly toxic political climate makes a such a change in public attitude on such a highly contentious social issue impossible and likewise, any attempt to force the issue through legislation very likely would not go well at all.
originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: GafferUK1981
I don’t post often, but I feel compelled to. “American” food is a microcosm of America itself. It’s origins come from Cuba, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Germany, China...you get the point. We are a former colony of the prolific British Empire who earned our freedom in the blood of our forefathers, with guns and galvanizing principles. One such principle is John Locke’s ‘Natural Rights’ which include a basic human right of self-defense, property ownership, and a means by which to live.
We are also a massive nation with hundreds of millions of people in urban areas, but also tens of millions living in rural areas. Many of those rural areas could fit the entire footprint of the UK within them. We have farmers with thousands of acres of crops to protect, ranchers with thousands of head of livestock to protect, and we all have the right to personally protect our family and property. And, in America we have the choice on how we wish to exercise that right.
Our country has more guns than people, the vast majority of which will never be used in a violent crime. But, when a criminal comes a knocking on our doors, you can bet he is armed. Most police are amazing people who do a fine job, but I can’t wait for a 10 minute response time should my family be in danger. That’s my job to protect them, my number one priority in this life.
Drugs are illegal, rape is illegal, murder is illegal, it’s diesnt stop criminals because they disregard the law. If guns are banned, the law breakers will still have them. In a nation this size with so many weapons, there will always be a healthy black market for them. And, who do you think will have them? You guessed it...criminals.
Not to mention the number of guns which pour across our southern border. Remember, we aren’t a small island nation, and our poor country to the south of us is a bastion of guns and drugs who need our nation to purchase product. Just like prohibition, you can bet illegal guns will drive demand for them. And, the consumers will be inner city thugs who buy them dozens at a time and sell them to petty criminals on the street.
Be rational about this, nobody wants to see people hurt, especially children. But, firearms are tools, this is a people problem.
Much more eloquent than I could produce, so I will just quote it once more for the truth .
originally posted by: Sublimecraft
originally posted by: GafferUK1981
a reply to: butcherguy
Come on name an American food, teach me of your culinary delights please
Gumbo - cooked with love and a sh!t ton of ingredients, craw fish being prime among them.
Now, I salivate.
I swear, if its a culinarygasm you're after, and can handle spicey, Gumbo is the schiizzzzzzz.
LOOK AT THIS - LOOK AT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ummm...now you've done it...here I sit...salivating...
Can't wait for this weekend when I go over to my moms and pig out on...etoufee...while we watch the Daytona 500
I've definitely got to make a good gumbo...or a seafood chowder...
Kinda makes that leftover Pizza I brought for lunch...less palatable...
Thanks man...
YouSir
Let's review facts:
There are 270 - 320 million guns in the US. Supposing legislation is passed, which it won't be, there is no logistical way to physically confiscate or control possession of that quantity of firearms.
Limiting, controlling, or ceasing manufacture and distribution of ammunition is likewise impossible. Creating/loading one's own ammunition is a widespread hobby here. Again, materials are widely distributed and easy to obtain or to manufacture from base components.
Limiting or banning possession of certain classes of firearms is just as unenforceable. The average citizen's ability to manufacture/obtain assault rifle clones becomes easier every day given readily available parts and knowledge (not to mention the emerging 3D printer technology.
Given these facts, confiscating, controlling, or otherwise limiting firearms in the US is unrealistic and a physically impossible task.
Further, given the increase in gang violence, terrorism, and documented poor recidivism rates for existing criminals, the public has a right and obligation to protect themselves by meeting force with equal or greater force. Keep in mind that the highest gun related homicide rates are in cities and states with the strictest gun control laws.
As for US law enforcement being poorly trained, I take umbrage at that comment. As a retired police firearms instructor, I assure you our personnel are more highly trained and proficient with weapons that most UK officers. We stress resolving situations through deescalation and communication. Our aggression prevention procedures work 99% of the time. However, when it does come to deadly force, we don't shy away from taking immediate action to mitigate a threat. Our officers don't have stop in the middle of an incident to call for a firearms car or specially armed officers to respond to a deadly force threat, unlike your UK officers. We have confidence in our officers training, physical abilities, and judgement.
Firearm confiscation and control, while appealing to an uneducated observer, isn't practical. Your question of what it would take to "hand over" our guns is naive and, obviously, a knee-jerk reaction. It won't happen. Americans must focus on the the root cause of gun violence - those who commit it, not the inanimate tool used to commit it. The question you should be asking is "How can Americans preempt and stop the shooters".
There are 270 - 320 million guns in the US. Supposing legislation is passed, which it won't be, there is no logistical way to physically confiscate or control possession of that quantity of firearms.
Limiting, controlling, or ceasing manufacture and distribution of ammunition is likewise impossible. Creating/loading one's own ammunition is a widespread hobby here. Again, materials are widely distributed and easy to obtain or to manufacture from base components.
Limiting or banning possession of certain classes of firearms is just as unenforceable. The average citizen's ability to manufacture/obtain assault rifle clones becomes easier every day given readily available parts and knowledge (not to mention the emerging 3D printer technology.
Given these facts, confiscating, controlling, or otherwise limiting firearms in the US is unrealistic and a physically impossible task.
Further, given the increase in gang violence, terrorism, and documented poor recidivism rates for existing criminals, the public has a right and obligation to protect themselves by meeting force with equal or greater force. Keep in mind that the highest gun related homicide rates are in cities and states with the strictest gun control laws.
As for US law enforcement being poorly trained, I take umbrage at that comment. As a retired police firearms instructor, I assure you our personnel are more highly trained and proficient with weapons that most UK officers. We stress resolving situations through deescalation and communication. Our aggression prevention procedures work 99% of the time. However, when it does come to deadly force, we don't shy away from taking immediate action to mitigate a threat. Our officers don't have stop in the middle of an incident to call for a firearms car or specially armed officers to respond to a deadly force threat, unlike your UK officers. We have confidence in our officers training, physical abilities, and judgement.
Firearm confiscation and control, while appealing to an uneducated observer, isn't practical. Your question of what it would take to "hand over" our guns is naive and, obviously, a knee-jerk reaction. It won't happen. Americans must focus on the the root cause of gun violence - those who commit it, not the inanimate tool used to commit it. The question you should be asking is "How can Americans preempt and stop the shooters".
a reply to: StreetGlide
My point regarding policing was that British officers are better at keeping the peace. We don't have guns so we just can't reach for that every five seconds. You guys are obviously better trained with firearms but surely there is more to policing than shooting your gun.
My point regarding policing was that British officers are better at keeping the peace. We don't have guns so we just can't reach for that every five seconds. You guys are obviously better trained with firearms but surely there is more to policing than shooting your gun.
a reply to: GafferUK1981
Our police can’t protect their community. Every citizen including children are packing. The police have to protect themselves and Each other.
Our police can’t protect their community. Every citizen including children are packing. The police have to protect themselves and Each other.
originally posted by: GafferUK1981
a reply to: Martin75
If the only thing you could do with a car is kill I'd agree with you but as it isn't I just disagree with your diversionary tactic
So you think kill is the only thing I can do with my guns? That is your problem.
It can and does save lives.
I have had to pull my gun before. No one died, and I wasn't injured (thanks to said gun). Instead a man was charged and I lived to see another day. Again the ignorance here is astounding!
Educate yourself before running that mouth.
Newsweek:Guns save lives
We could go back and forth forever but it will always come back to your ignorance. Oh anf the fact that you aren't American so it really doesn't matter.
edit on 2/15/2018 by Martin75 because: Damn spell check... hmpft
originally posted by: GafferUK1981
a reply to: StreetGlide
My point regarding policing was that British officers are better at keeping the peace. We don't have guns so we just can't reach for that every five seconds. You guys are obviously better trained with firearms but surely there is more to policing than shooting your gun.
If American policing involves reaching for their gun every five seconds...
Why is it that 9 out of 11 law enforcement officers that I personally know have never fired their gun in the line of duty?
One shot a fleeing bank robber. The other shot a deer that had been severely injured being struck by an automobile.
originally posted by: GafferUK1981
a reply to: YouSir
That does look nice, spicy is no problem, I'm from the curry capital of England.
Ummm...I love me a good curry as well...Although...haggis and blood pudding I must say might be an acquired taste...although it might be good for all I know...
When I was in Australia...I learned to love vegemite...nothing like a greenish paste that tastes like a crushed vitamin smeared over toast...
Good for what ails ya...
YouSir
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