Enough is enough. Public massacres and school shootings must stop.

didn't trump make it easier for people with mental illness to purchase guns? how is that good?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: MteWamp
When something like this happens I can't help wondering about the PARENTS of a kid that shoots up a school.

I realize that as a parent, you can't always know what a kid is thinking, but how could parents that have a healthy, loving relationship with their kid miss it so completely?

Why didnt Hitlers parents know?
Why didnt Stalins parents know?
Why didnt Dahmers parents know?
Why didnt Ed Gaines parents know?

Can we reasonably expect a mother or father to stop loving their children for what their children do? Can we expect parents to view their children as potential mass murders?

Sometimes it is difficult to see the trees when you are standing in the middle of the forest.

Ultimately the only person responsible is the person who commits the crime.

I think you might have missed my point.

All I was doing was wondering if there could have been warning signs that the parents may have missed.

If it were one of my kids that was growing up to be some kind of retarded psychopath, I just think I may have noticed.

But then the killer's parent's may have been busy NOT raising him.

I know if one of MY kids murdered 17 people, I would damn sure feel like I bore some responsibility in the matter. But then I raised my kids personally.

Oh, and maybe Stalin's and Hitler's parents did know they were psycho, I don't know either way

a reply to: ipsedixit


I agree.. I think a lot of it is envy.

it's so sad. we value the dumbest things..

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
No, based off of personal knowledge and firsthand accounts of LEOs I know. The fact is that criminals have admitted that they stay away from certain areas more because they fear being shot by a homeowner while committing a crime.

Please can you show evidence of this FACT since you've just admitted your whole argument is on hearsay and imaginary conversations you have.

Pretty easy. Criminals have previously been charged with or convicted of a crime. Or they have the intent to commit a crime.
I have never been charged with, convicted of, nor to I have the intent to commit a crime.

Yet.
All criminals start somewhere.

I sincerely doubt a judge and jury would find the killing of someone merely for owning a gun justified. It has to meet the "reasonable person" standard.

Who cares what a judge thinks, you said its all about what YOU deem to be reasonable and justified. How come your happy to hide behind the judge now, but if the judge says you can't have your gun suddenly its not ok?

Did Prohibition stop the manufacture and sale of alcohol?
Has the War on Drugs stopped the manufacture/importation/sale of illegal narcotics?

What an idiotic thing to say. So if you can't stop any of it, don't stop any?

Did drug use and alcohol use decline?

What do you think I would "like to get away with" that criminals do?

Owning a gun when prohibited to do so. Are you having trouble following? Feels like you are forgetting your own inane arguments.

Guns are used for hunting, target shooting, and self-defense. All legitimate purposes.

Why is target shooting legitimate? And they aren't useful for self-defence, as I've already explained over and over its been proven to be a higher risk to keep a gun in your home rather than increasing safety.

Ignore that all you like but its true.

Hunting might be needed but the guns should be heavily regulated and training implemented. The use of guns for defence against crime is ineffective.

Not self-entitled, nor Rambo. Just like to be proficient in the very small chance that I ever may need to use a firearm in self-defense. I do so in order to minimize risk of injury to the innocent.

There is a much larger chance you will injure an innocent than ever protect them.

So one must assume you are aware of this fact but just too egotistical to admit it and want to be a hero anyway, not smart enough to realise it or too paranoid/brain-washed/ignorant to accept it.

The nuclear weapon hyperbole again...

Booby-trapping your property/home is illegal in most places due to the risk of injuring an innocent person.

Wow.

Here you go again contradicting yourself. Why is it illegal, why do you accept its illegal but then when the same argument is used for your guns its not a valid point.

This is ridiculous, you've destroyed your own argument.

Self-defense must be justifiable. A neighbor merely owning firearms and not taking action with them is not justifiable self-defense.

Justified by who? You? The law? Or me? Or is it the law, until you disagree and then its you?

We've discussed the topic on ATS before. It's pretty much agreed that a ban/confiscation would never happen.

Has it? By who?

Stop making things up.

So basically "make all guns illegal and everything will be okay." Care to elaborate on how this would work?

Maybe research gun ownership in other civilised countries and their gun violence/murder rates. Viola.
You've learnt something.

Make whatever laws you want banning guns. I'm keeping mine.

Ah so we get to the crux... you hide behind the laws, even citing laws against laying booby traps, but then when its suggested a law might come into place banning guns you are happily ready to switch to being a criminal. What a d1ck.

You are the problem. Narrow-minded, egotistical and unwilling to change.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Same old excuses and rhetoric. Wind up, wind down, repeat. You have any original ideas?

Please read your own posts, and understand it applies to you as well.

Do YOU have any solutions that are not excuses and political rhetoric?

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
I have never been charged with, convicted of, nor to I have the intent to commit a crime.

And then...

Make whatever laws you want banning guns. I'm keeping mine.

Happy to throw away his entire argument to keep his gun. There's your intent.

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite debate will be enforced.
Community Announcement re: Decorum
We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

No one has the right to gun down American children with war weapons.
Vote blue send the blood red party back to the wilderness. They have failed protecting our children and they don’t care. Save your soul.

This right here is representative of what started last night, and will continue until firearms are banned.

Auto accidents are the number 1 killer of children in the usa.
When I hear the outrage about automobiles from the left on par with the outrage from guns, I will then take them seriously. Until then in my opinion the left is using children's deaths to push their political agenda, nothing more.

Seems to me we need to ban cars first, unless one method of death is worse than another......

a reply to: Krakatoa

Yes. Draw a line. I don’t have anything more to say to people like you.

originally posted by: YeeHaw

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
I have never been charged with, convicted of, nor to I have the intent to commit a crime.

And then...

Make whatever laws you want banning guns. I'm keeping mine.

Happy to throw away his entire argument to keep his gun. There's your intent.

If folks are so adamant about banning the personal ownership of firearms, fine. There is a process in place already to make that happen. Make motions and attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, using the prescribed legal means to do so. Anything less is merely a feeble attempt to strip citizens of their rights without due process.

And I know you don't think so little of individuals rights that you would actively and openly advocate for removing rights without due process, now would you?

Either start the repeal process or stop your emotional virtue signaling.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Krakatoa

Yes. Draw a line. I don’t have anything more to say to people like you.

Who are "people like me"?
You mean a citizen that actually cares and supports due process of law?
A person that actually admires and is willing to defend the United States Constitution?

Those people?

originally posted by: Krakatoa
And I know you don't think so little of individuals rights that you would actively and openly advocate for removing rights without due process, now would you?

Yes I would. And I'm not sure what your post had to do with my quote.

Clearly its not "fine" as the poster I was talking to said they would turn criminal if it came to pass.

a reply to: MOMof3

Boy, look who's talking!!

Yes, as a matter of fact, and I already listed some of them

For example, perhaps a good start, if people are looking to 'ban' something, might be to take a look at first person shooter video games which glorify murdering people, games which make it seem easy and 'cool' to go on a killing spree, games where the winner is the one who KILLS THE MOST PEOPLE! Maybe if these types of games didn't exist kids like the piece of garbage who murdered those school kids yesterday wouldn't become desensitized to murder and fantasize about shooting up a school of innocent kids! Just for starters.

Secondly, maybe parents should actually "parent", instead of expecting everybody else to raise their kids for them, and medicate them into compliance. Anything less than this is an EXCUSE, and a bad one at that.

Thirdly, maybe there really ARE 'bad' people in this world (gasp!). Maybe, instead of giving everyone at school a medal just for showing up, maybe we should take out the trash every now and then. Being accepted into a group environment is NOT a "right", it's a privilege and a privilege which must be earned AND maintained. This kid didn't belong in a school,...he belonged in a jail! And guess what, he proved it...but that's not the worst part. The worst part is he proved it a long, long, time BEFORE the shooting ever happened!!! So rather than coddling these monsters, maybe they should get the snot kicked out of them by a society who doesn't tolerate that S# like they deserve!!

You're up...let's hear what you got! Oh yeah...'vote blue', right?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Secondly, maybe parents should actually "parent", instead of expecting everybody else to raise their kids for them, and medicate them into compliance. Anything less than this is an EXCUSE, and a bad one at that.

This
this one thousand times