Complete Proof Of Freemasonry Being Satanic?

Originally posted by freudling
billmcelligott:

Thank you for the rather enlightening post.

Thanks for gettin' my back, Bill.

Now how is what he said different from what I said?

So you see, freudling, I do know a little something about it, even though I am not a Mason. Don't you think if I was saying things that were incorrect the Freemasons here would object and say "Hey Axeman you're wrong" or "Don't mind him, he doesn't know what he's talking about" or something like that?

And you still have completely ignored my other questions. That's cool though, whatever dude.

[edit on 2/15/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Leveller

As for mindcontrolled's rant about traditions? Isn't it ironic that the whole Christian church is built on tradition?

It's only ironic to a non-christian. I.E. only a non-christian can find iorny in the word. I don't take oaths to anyone but the word and we call them vows.

Originally posted by billmcelligott

God is a generic name, so is GATOU, in fact God has no name, when asked by Abraham he said, I am who I am.

God has a name. We christians know him as LORD JESUS CHRIST! Don't quote christian scripture and say god has no name. Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

actually no religion knows the name of g-d

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
It's only ironic to a non-christian. I.E. only a non-christian can find iorny in the word. I don't take oaths to anyone but the word and we call them vows.

Well the Masons call them obligations, so there you have it.

Vow, oath, obligation, promise, covenant, swearing or affirming, it's all semantics.

The irony is you spouting off about traditions being bad or whatever when your own religion is saturated with them.

God has a name. We christians know him as LORD JESUS CHRIST! Don't quote christian scripture and say god has no name. Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

Yes, OK, so you have Jesus Christ. What about His Father? Is His name Jesus Christ too?

[edit on 2/15/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
God has a name. We christians know him as LORD JESUS CHRIST! Don't quote christian scripture and say god has no name. Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

How very, very arrogant - claiming that only you know the truth and that you speak for everyone else.
Personally, I've got you marked down as a Satanist.

The problem with people like you is you're pretty good at quoting the Bible, but you seem to be absolute failiures when it comes to following it's advice. That's not even a judgement - your own words show this to be so.

Leveller:

Where in my post did you interpret the origins of Paganism?

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

Originally posted by billmcelligott

God is a generic name, so is GATOU, in fact God has no name, when asked by Abraham he said, I am who I am.

God has a name. We christians know him as LORD JESUS CHRIST! Don't quote christian scripture and say god has no name. Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

Exodus
14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "


In Exodus 3 we find the story of Moses and the burning bush

God appeared to Moses through a bush that was burning
but not consumed by fire

God tells him this is holy ground and who he is

"I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

Moses recognizes that he is in the presence of God
God tells him that he wants him to lead the Israelites out of Egypt

Moses says, "Who? Me?"
God says "I will be with you!"
Moses asks, "What is your name? Who do I say sent me?"

God's response

"I am who I am. Say, 'I am has sent me to you.'"

Simply… I am… it's always present tense

In John 8 Jesus talks with the Jews about who he is
and whether he is greater than Abraham

The people ask him if he has seen Abraham

Jesus replies, "Before Abraham was, I am."

Not only would they recognize "I AM" as a title for God
hence Jesus is God
but Jesus was also saying that he was eternal

Yep, just twistin ?

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
God has a name. We christians know him as LORD JESUS CHRIST! Don't quote christian scripture and say god has no name. Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

How very, very arrogant - claiming that only you know the truth and that you speak for everyone else.
Personally, I've got you marked down as a Satanist.

The problem with people like you is you're pretty good at quoting the Bible, but you seem to be absolute failiures when it comes to following it's advice. That's not even a judgement - your own words show this to be so.

Were in my post did I claim that ONLY I know the truth. Read the post, WE CHRISTIANS!
Nice little satanist joke though, got me laughing.

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled
[Were in my post did I claim that ONLY I know the truth. Read the post, WE CHRISTIANS!
Nice little satanist joke though, got me laughing.

And just who are "we Christians"?
Hate to rain on your parade bud, but there are so many sects within Christianity and so many opposing views amongst those sects, that it's impossible to generalise when making the statement that you did.

And who said I was joking? Answer me this - why do you worship the "Christian" god?

Originally posted by thegreatimposter
Leveller:

Where in my post did you interpret the origins of Paganism?

From this statement.

"What is called paganism I believe to be a side effect of the spread of Roman Catholic Idealism."

Paganism clearly predated Roman Catholisism and it's spread. I don't understand how you could interpret paganism as being a side effect to something that evolved long afterwards.
A side effect is a secondary effect. Clearly, Paganism was the primary effect in relation to Catholisism.



[edit on 15-2-2005 by Leveller]

Originally posted by billmcelligott


Exodus
14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "


In Exodus 3 we find the story of Moses and the burning bush

God appeared to Moses through a bush that was burning
but not consumed by fire

God tells him this is holy ground and who he is

"I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

Moses recognizes that he is in the presence of God
God tells him that he wants him to lead the Israelites out of Egypt

Moses says, "Who? Me?"
God says "I will be with you!"
Moses asks, "What is your name? Who do I say sent me?"

God's response

"I am who I am. Say, 'I am has sent me to you.'"

Simply… I am… it's always present tense

In John 8 Jesus talks with the Jews about who he is
and whether he is greater than Abraham

The people ask him if he has seen Abraham

Jesus replies, "Before Abraham was, I am."

Not only would they recognize "I AM" as a title for God
hence Jesus is God
but Jesus was also saying that he was eternal

Yep, just twistin ?

I am only trying to make the point that today, we christians have recognized the name of god to be the Lord Jesus Christ. I use exodus for a reference to Lord Jesus Christ.

Exodus 15:1-3
Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the LORD:
I will sing to the LORD, for he is gloriously triumphant;
horse and chariot he has cast into the sea.
My strength and my courage is the LORD, and he has been my saviour.
He is my god, I praise him
the god of my father, I extol him.
The LORD is a warrior,
LORD is his name!


The use of the word I AM by Jesus in Jn:8 is the early jewish tradition understood as Yahwah's own self-designation, as well in all of the uses. I think the study of isogoics will clearify that for you.
We, today, as christians designate the same god in the bible to be LORD JESUS CHRIST! No one uses the old jewish traditional words "I AM' today. Silly traditions of man are bound to be broken.


P.S. Can't figure out how to size the text back to 1. Sorry

Originally posted by Leveller


"What is called paganism I believe to be a side effect of the spread of Roman Catholic Idealism."

Paganism clearly predated Roman Catholicism and it's spread. I don't understand how you could interpret paganism as being a side effect to something that evolved long afterwards.
A side effect is a secondary effect. Clearly, Paganism was the primary effect in relation to Catholicism.

Actually, I agree with you 100%. However, was it CALLED paganism before the spread of Catholicism? The Male Deity worship changed the social view on Female Goddess worship and gave birth to our views of Villains and Pagans. I'm sure the religion predated Catholicism, it was our perception of what it was that changed. I should've been more clear.

And if it was called Paganism before the Roman Catholic influence, could you direct me to a source?

Originally posted by Leveller



And just who are "we Christians"?
Hate to rain on your parade bud, but there are so many sects within Christianity and so many opposing views amongst those sects, that it's impossible to generalise when making the statement that you did.

And who said I was joking? Answer me this - why do you worship the "Christian" god?

Yes. There are alot of sects of christianity. I am plain and simple, christian, mabey more specificly, a bible believing christian. Not a satanist. I don't read any books authored by Anton Levay, I don't worship the serpent in Gn:3. I believe in the word, and the word says:

Whosever beleives in the son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the son will not see life, but the wrath of god remains uphon him. Jn 3:36.

And the son is:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but might have eternal life. Jn 3:16.

In this way the love of god was revealed to us: God sent his only son into the world so that we might have life through him. I Jn 4:9

He who did not spare his own son, but handed him over for us all, how will he not also give us everything else along with him? Rm 8:32

I can quote the bible all day, the testament of me I give you is that I am a christian. I have faith and see what is happening around us. I am by no means a "satanist" and can't wait till satan gets whats comming to him:

He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the devil or satan, and tied it up for a thousand years and threw it into the abyss, which he locked over it and sealed, so that it could no longer lead the nations astray until the thousand years are completed. After this, it is to be released for a short time.......Rev 20:2-3

Please read on.

Don't call me a satanist when my lord is JESUS CHRIST!

[edit on 15-2-2005 by notmindcontrolled]

Originally posted by thegreatimposter
And if it was called Paganism before the Roman Catholic influence, could you direct me to a source?

There's a risk when using the word "Paganism", that it's way too general to apply to any belief other than those that are recognised as being the major religions today. It seems that you and I have had a misunderstanding over the context in which it was used.

The word "pagan" stems from the Latin "paganus" which meant "country people". It was a word that was sometimes used by Romans in contempt for those outside the city walls because they were viewed as crude and uneducated. It predates Christianity by centuries but is not known wether it would have been applied in a strictly religious sense. Possibly it would - "pagan" could mean anything viewed as "backward" by those who saw themselves as "modern" thinkers.
In later Latin, the word came to mean "civilian". As early Catholics saw themselves as "Soldiers of Christ", the word pagan was taken to interpret the opposite.

It was cetainly a word that was in effect before Christianity had spread throughout Europe, used by both Romans and Christians and would seem to have first been used in the area where Christianity was born - being applied to those country folk of Rome who clung to their old gods instead of embracing the new religion.

www.etymonline.com...

The main problem with the word today is that, apart from the non-Christian, non-Islamic, non-Judaic, etc. way it is applied, there really is no clear definition of what it actually means. It's way too general and one often has to guess the context in which it is used as I have above.

Gathering from your later words, you seem to be referring to a resurrection of goddess worship and here I don't dispute the idea that the resurrection of this mode of religion may have been influenced by the spread of Catholisism in France, in the mid 4th century AD. But the context in which I see your use of the word "pagan" makes the addition of the word "resurrection" a necessity.
Incidentally, the actual word "pagan" was used in a "Christian" sense by Tertullian (one of the early Church fathers) in the 3rd century AD. Again, he referred to himself as one of the "milites Christi" (soldiers of Christ) and it became natural to refer to non-Christian or non- Jewish as pagani, "civilians". In Histories 153 he refers to "soldiery demoralized by intercourse with the civilians (paganos)" - a reference to how pagans were affecting the morale of the early Christians.

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

Originally posted by Leveller
Answer me this - why do you worship the "Christian" god?

I believe in the word, and the word says:

Whosever beleives in the son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the son will not see life, but the wrath of god remains uphon him. Jn 3:36.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but might have eternal life. Jn 3:16.

In this way the love of god was revealed to us: God sent his only son into the world so that we might have life through him. I Jn 4:9

He who did not spare his own son, but handed him over for us all, how will he not also give us everything else along with him? Rm 8:32

Just as I suspected. Look a the quotes you've picked out from the Bible there. It's all me, me, me. "I'll get rewarded if I worship Jesus. If I don't worship him I'll get nothing."
So you think that following your god is all about reward? All about receiving for yourself? All about saving yourself? Can't give without worrying about receiving something back? Isn't that the ultimate selfishness? Isn't that worshipping through fear?

What about worshipping God for His Sake and for His Sake alone?
Maybe when you can do that, then you can come back and lecture me on who or what I should worship.



[edit on 15-2-2005 by Leveller]

I was a rainbow girl in middle school they are the young ladies of the Masonic temple they are in training to become Eastern Star (women of temple). Anyhow we shared the same quarters with the men and saw all their assorted props for their ritual. I am not christian I was born Catholic but became pagan when I was 13 and still am now I am much older . Anyhow the rituals we did always reminded me of hard core covens that believe in ridgid cememony and memerizing books. I held three positions in the rainbows, first I was sister of immortality then of love then I moved up to Faith. We were expected to wait hand and foot on the mason when they had dinners and such. I am not sure about Satanist (I quit before I got to the real order), but the ones I meet where womanizing and racist. I was witness to a speech at a dinner where I heard N this N that and horable jokes about black people and woman alike. I as a former rainbow am held to a vowel of silence regarding all matters pretaining to them. Even this vague posting would seem a breach of my silence. OH WELL

Lady D
Sorry I never spell check

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

The use of the word I AM by Jesus in Jn:8 is the early jewish tradition understood as Yahwah's own self-designation, as well in all of the uses. I think the study of isogoics will clearify that for you.
We, today, as christians designate the same god in the bible to be LORD JESUS CHRIST! No one uses the old jewish traditional words "I AM' today. Silly traditions of man are bound to be broken.
P.S. Can't figure out how to size the text back to 1. Sorry

It was merely a retort to your comment :

Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

If you stick someone , you have to expect them to stick you back.

I suppose I could have just said NO! but my way was much more interesting and quite informative. Don't you think?

Generally I do not take your view of jewish Tradition on Jesus saying before Abraham "I am". My view is he was saying "I am that I am" - in other words I spoke to Abraham and Moses and all that followed. If not why use that exact phrase "I AM" . Why say it at all?

Anyway it is a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by Leveller



Just as I suspected. Look a the quotes you've picked out from the Bible there. It's all me, me, me. "I'll get rewarded if I worship Jesus. If I don't worship him I'll get nothing."
So you think that following your god is all about reward? All about receiving for yourself? All about saving yourself? Can't give without worrying about receiving something back? Isn't that the ultimate selfishness?

What about worshipping God for His Sake and for His Sake alone?
Maybe when you can do that, then you can come back and lecture me on who or what I should worship.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Leveller]

His sake and his sake alone is to proivide us these rewards in hevean. That is his plan. He has a place reserved for all that is saved. If I want be saved then, I will recieve divine reward and decoration in heaven. My other choice is to burn in the lake of fire eternaly. God won't condemn every believer and punish them if they are selfish. I guess you can say it is selfish if you want, but I want to be the in the better part of history. I will witness to anyone who listenes. That is one way grace works. I have witnessed to a whole lot of people for Jesus Christ. I do have a obligation to do that, but won't go to hell if I don't. But I do. I am doing gods work by grace. I also try to live like a good christian. I don't drink, sleep with as many girls as I can, I don't brake the laws of the land, I don't steal, I work hard and gain the rewards from my work, but I think the most important thing is to witness whenever possible.

Originally posted by billmcelligott


Generally I do not take your view of jewish Tradition on Jesus saying before Abraham "I am". My view is he was saying "I am that I am" - in other words I spoke to Abraham and Moses and all that followed. If not why use that exact phrase "I AM" . Why say it at all?

Anyway it is a matter of opinion.

It's not my view, it's historical fact. I can't provide a link, it was taught and documented at my chruch by my pastor who is more qualified to give the meaning of the use of the "I AM" phrase then you are.
You said that you don't view the jewish tradition. Who are you?

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

Originally posted by billmcelligott

Generally I do not take your view of jewish Tradition on Jesus saying before Abraham "I am". My view is he was saying "I am that I am" - in other words I spoke to Abraham and Moses and all that followed. If not why use that exact phrase "I AM" . Why say it at all?

Anyway it is a matter of opinion.

It's not my view, it's historical fact. I can't provide a link, it was taught and documented at my chruch by my pastor who is more qualified to give the meaning of the use of the "I AM" phrase then you are.
You said that you don't view the jewish tradition.

You presented the words here , if they are not yours you should have credited them to your Pastor.

It is not a matter of being qualified, as I said it is a matter of popinion. Remember it is you who challenged me not the other way round.

Who are you?

You ask in a derogatory manner.

I am no more and no less then you are. I am a member of this forum and as such entitled to the rights of opinion assigned under that position. Just the same as you are.

Originally posted by notmindcontrolled

Originally posted by billmcelligott

God is a generic name, so is GATOU, in fact God has no name, when asked by Abraham he said, I am who I am.

God has a name. We christians know him as LORD JESUS CHRIST! Don't quote christian scripture and say god has no name. Your just twisting the word around aren't ya?

hold on a minute chief, i might be me but i always though that Jesus Christ was THE SON OF GOD?!!! but then agian that might just be me.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by svcadet32]