FBI told opposition research group agianst Trump details of Trump investigation

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: tadaman

What evidence is there that links Clinton to Fusion?

I know that the Clinton team did get information on Trump, but that was a psych profile, to see about his triggers that would unhinge the man. And according to Fusion, they do not do that, they do more of the profile on a person with facts when it comes to their business and getting all of their information from more public and open sources, such as court documents, and things that the person said, and media, like video and recordings.

So who actually hired Fusion to do a report on Trump?

After lying for a year, the DNC and Hillarys team have finally admitted to paying for the dossier.

www.washingtonpost.com... -a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.11c2c0a10116

a reply to: sdcigarpig


Fusion GPS was originally retained during the election by the Washington Free Beacon. They wanted opposition research on Trump.

When Trump became the presidential nominee, Clinton and the DNC retained Fusion GPS through lawyer Marc Elias and his firm Perkins Coie.

www.foxnews.com...

WAPO reported it first and FOX confirmed it and ran a story.

The DNC bought the whole thing and USED it. Steele was officially brought on during the DNC's retainment of FGPS ' services. Steele was handed the compiled information up to that point and he tried to add to it.

EDIT TO ADD:
Why did Clinton and the DNC lie about their connections to this?

What are they hiding?

a reply to: Grambler

As I said before, that was not my point of contention.

My point is/was that you cannot say the FBI did this with the intent to harm Trump.

But I also stand by what I said. We do no know the entire context of what Steele was told, as it was relayed through Simpson.

We only know his understanding of what Steele was told.

a reply to: Grambler

Here is your Link

They were the first to cover it.

Marc E. Elias, a lawyer representing the Clinton campaign and the DNC, retained Fusion GPS, a Washington firm, to conduct the research.

After that, Fusion GPS hired dossier author Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer with ties to the FBI and the U.S. intelligence community, according to those people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The law firm Perkins Coie received 5.6 million in fees from the Clinton campaign and 3.6 million for consulting for the DNC while the dossier was written. Fusion GPS was paid out of that money and they paid Steele.

a reply to: Grambler

If a person murders someone, and we say murder is bad, and then a second person pays a firm to murder someone, you dont just say "Well we cant investigate the second person because the situations are not the same"

Horrible example. Not even close to being applicable to this situation.

The implication is that Don jr meeting with russians to get dirt should be investigated, becau8se it is wrong to try to get dirt on your political opponents from russia.

No. Not because it is wrong. But because there are laws about getting things of value from foreign entities, or the promise of that gift.

There is no reason why paying a third party top get dirt on your opponent from russians (and the lying about it) wouldnt also justify an investigation.

Hillary did not pay a third party for dirt. They hired a firm and that firm hired a private investigator. Not against the law.

As usual, you just say no two situations are the same, therefore trump needs investigated, but Hillary doesnt.

Well, that would be true. They are not the same. You are not even framing the situation in the proper context.

It proves that you are not interested in stopping russian interference, merely attacking trump.

No. It shows that I am interested in proper context and you are trying to frame this in a way in which it seems reasonable to make the same statements about Hillary and friends that can be said about Jr.

Which it cannot.

Again, maybe you should watch this video from trump haters showing how the idea that because hillarys team paid a third party for dirt from russia makes it somehow ok when don jrs meeting wasnt is absurd.

Why do I care what Trump haters say? They are not part of this conversation and I do not agree with them.

Also, I do not hate Trump. I just like to debate these issues and point out the very distinct differences.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

As I said before, that was not my point of contention.

My point is/was that you cannot say the FBI did this with the intent to harm Trump.

But I also stand by what I said. We do no know the entire context of what Steele was told, as it was relayed through Simpson.

We only know his understanding of what Steele was told.

But that was your original point of contention.

Now where in your initial post did you say anything about me proving intent of the FBI?

when you finally had to admit you were wrong, you shift the goal post.

Then you go on and on and on about how you never said I couldnt prove the simpson said steele told him the FBI had a source inside trumps team.

Just like you said I changed my stance on the distinction between the two collusion stories, which wasnt true.

yet you again and again call me a liar while doing this.

a reply to: introvert

Getting things of value from foriegn entities?

Like the dossier, which was got not only through a foreign british agents, but sourced through the Kremlin.

That the dems received, and used, and lied about paying fusion for the dossier for a year.

Please quote me in the law where is says its ok to hire a firm to get something of value from a foreign entity.

For those wondering:

The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) is a United States law passed in 1938 requiring that agents representing the interests of foreign powers in a "political or quasi-political capacity" disclose their relationship with the foreign government and information about related activities and finances.

The purpose is to facilitate "evaluation by the government and the American people of the statements and activities of such persons."

Hillary and the DNC paid a firm that was already in violation of FARA to hire a foreign intelligence officer to gather opposition research on a US presidential candidate and party nominee.

ADDED, and hire a Russian lawyer with ties to the Russian Gov and the mafia to set up /incriminate her opponent in a fair "Democratic" election.

That # is insanely illegal.

a reply to: Grambler

But that was your original point of contention.

My original point was that we cannot say for sure the exact context of what was said because we are hearing things through a second-hand account.

Now where in your intial post did you say anything about me proving intent of the FBI.

True. I did not say anything about you proving their intent, but I did question your logic on that aspect. This is from my first post:

It is a leap in logic to say this is proof the FBI puts it's interests in making Trump look bad ahead of anything else.

Then you go on and on and on about how you never said I couldnt prove the simpson said steele told him the FBI had a source inside trumps team.

No. I did not. I even admitted that aspect and quickly tried to get you back on track in my 5th post.

Just like you said I changed my stance on the distinction between the two collusion stories, which wasnt true.

It did appear that you changes your stance, in regards to whom Hillary paid to get the dirt. Though I think it may just be a misunderstanding. I am very literal in how I interpret words and pay attention to sentence structure, punctuation, etc.

I do not think you have a similar approach and you do not pay enough attention to how you structure your responses, so that it could leave your comments up to different interpretations.

yet you again and again call me a liar while doing this.

And I stand by that. You, literally, have fabricated posts claiming I said something, even providing quotes, and those very quotes show I did not say what you claim.

a reply to: Grambler

Like the dossier, which was got not only through a foreign british agents, but sourced through the Kremlin.

Nope. Not the same. They paid for a product from a US firm. That firm contracted someone else to do the work. The DNC had nothing to do with that.

That the dems received, and used, and lied about paying fusion for the dossier for a year.

Was that dossier solicited by a foreign agent or promised to them?

No.

Please quote me in the law where is says its ok to hire a firm to get something of value from a foreign entity.

If it's ok, there wouldn't be a law against it. Your logic seems to be very flawed, but let's try this another way.

I can show you where Jr may have violated a law. Not saying he did, but may have.

What law can you quote that Hillary and friends may have violated by hiring a US firm, who in turn decided to contract a foreign national?

Be specific.

a reply to: introvert
the Fara law that tadaman posted for one.

Now quote me your law that don jr. may have broke.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

the Fara law that tadaman posted for one.

How did Hillary and friends violate FARA regulations?

Now quote me your law that don jr. may have broke.

www.law.cornell.edu...

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

a reply to: Grambler

Lying on a security clearance application, for one. A lot of Trump's circle did that for some reason.

a reply to: tadaman
Several things to consider on this:
If it is true that the Clinton campaign paid for the report on Trump, then why is Rep Nunes subpoenaing for Fusions banking records to get the names of the person(s) who paid to have this kind of research done?

Opposition research is perfectly legal in the USA. An candidate will have investigations done on his or her opponent and then has such information released or uses it in a timely manner. The research needs to be done well, and truthful, something that can be verified, contain no lies and has to be done before the election is over where it can be released to the public to sway the populace when it comes to the election. Usually this kind of research ends either the day before or the day of an actual election. I do know that Clinton’s team did hire people to do a psych research on Trump to find the triggers to make him look bad, and they did opposition research as well.

One does not approach Fusion setting a goal to find out the smoking gun, and they will refuse that. Rather one approaches Fusion and say I want this person or business investigated, and leave it at that. And set an end date for the investigation, letting them do their work. And in the process, they will go through all of the public information and compile a report from such documentation. If the person has business or dealing over in another country, they hire out specific subcontractors to go and look, and get the public information and send such back. They draw no conclusions, letting the evidence do that. They are hired by lawyers to do investigations and research for them.

So as far as the Russia dossier, was not the only part of the investigation that was done on Trump. And the only reason why they looked at Russia in particular is from Trump and his family stating that they do a lot of business with Russia, travel over there, but no business is done in Russia, raising a flag. We do not know what all was uncovered by the Fusion team on Trump, but it has to be substantial and pretty much expansive, covering a lot of the Trump’s business dealings, and all of the lawsuits he has been involved in and the banks he has used, along with what every the public information is out there. And it goes into each and every country that Trump is involved in, with different subcontractors for each one, either local people, or people with a working knowledge of the language, culture and governmental processes as not to violate local laws.

Now there are several things to consider: There was more than one client that has hired Fusion to look into Trump. And from the way some of this reads, the investigation that Fusion is doing, is far from over, and is still ongoing. And if it is, who then is funding this. The report did state those interested in Trump are US nationals.

a reply to: Grambler

The dossier is part of a far bigger investigation. And from the testimony that was given, when they got the information there was a private conversation as to what to do with it, and the decision was to give it to the FBI, as Steele had connections with the intelligence agencies in the USA, having worked with them before, and from his time in the MI6. And there are some in Congress who had this information before that as well, like Sen. McCain.

What we should find interesting is the FBI's response is that it collaborated some of the information that they had already, means that they knew about such. Now it sounds like to me that there was a possible crime going on and the counter intelligence department of the FBI was looking into it already. Usually they do investigations to gather evidence before making accusations.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

the Fara law that tadaman posted for one.

How did Hillary and friends violate FARA regulations?

Now quote me your law that don jr. may have broke.

www.law.cornell.edu...

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

So explain to me how steele does not violate this?

He is a foreign national that is providing dirt, which is what the thing of value with don jr. would be, to fusion to give to hillarys team.

The fact that hillarys team paid fusion for this, knew it was from a foreign agent steele, and kremlin sourced, and lied about it for a year would make them guilty as well, seeing as how it was an indirect contribution.

Especially given this fro your source.

(i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national;

(ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or

(iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable inquiry.

So the DNC and hillarys team knew they were getting something of value indirectly from a foriegn national, accepted that thing of value, and lied about paying for it for a year.

Case closed.

So why are you against an investigation into this?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

the Fara law that tadaman posted for one.

How did Hillary and friends violate FARA regulations?

Now quote me your law that don jr. may have broke.

www.law.cornell.edu...

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

So explain to me how steele does not violate this?

He is a foreign national that is providing dirt, which is what the thing of value with don jr. would be, to fusion to give to hillarys team.

The fact that hillarys team paid fusion for this, knew it was from a foreign agent steele, and kremlin sourced, and lied about it for a year would make them guilty as well, seeing as how it was an indirect contribution.

Especially given this fro your source.

(i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national;

(ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or

(iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable inquiry.

So the DNC and hillarys team knew they were getting something of value indirectly from a foriegn national, accepted that thing of value, and lied about paying for it for a year.

Case closed.

So why are you against an investigation into this?

You are missing something very simple.

Hillary and the DNC did not choose who Fusion would hire and as far as we know the lawyer that hired Fusion was not told a foreign national would be retained to do some of the work.

Unless I missed that part. Do you have a link that states otherwise?

As far as Jr, his ties are direct. He was directly promised something of value for the sake of the election.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

the Fara law that tadaman posted for one.

How did Hillary and friends violate FARA regulations?

Now quote me your law that don jr. may have broke.

www.law.cornell.edu...

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

So explain to me how steele does not violate this?

He is a foreign national that is providing dirt, which is what the thing of value with don jr. would be, to fusion to give to hillarys team.

The fact that hillarys team paid fusion for this, knew it was from a foreign agent steele, and kremlin sourced, and lied about it for a year would make them guilty as well, seeing as how it was an indirect contribution.

Especially given this fro your source.

(i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national;

(ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or

(iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable inquiry.

So the DNC and hillarys team knew they were getting something of value indirectly from a foriegn national, accepted that thing of value, and lied about paying for it for a year.

Case closed.

So why are you against an investigation into this?

You are missing something very simple.

Hillary and the DNC did not choose who Fusion would hire and as far as we know the lawyer that hired Fusion was not told a foreign national would be retained to do some of the work.

Unless I missed that part. Do you have a link that states otherwise?

As far as Jr, his ties are direct. He was directly promised something of value for the sake of the election.

Again, as the statute specifically says, direct vs. indirect does not matter.

Hillary, the DNC and others that paid for the dossier knew when they received it that it was a thing of value from a foreign agent.

They then lied about paying for it.

What they initially paid for was irrelevant.

If they paid fusion to go drum up financial donations (a thing of value) not knowing were fusion would get them, and then accepted money from fusion that they knew was from a foriegn national, they would have indirectly accepted a thing of value from a foreign national quite clearly.

They had the option to turn down the dossier when they found out where it came from, but they did not.

Tell me again why there shouldnt be an investigation into them?

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Several things to consider on this: If it is true that the Clinton campaign paid for the report on Trump, then why is Rep Nunes subpoenaing for Fusions banking records to get the names of the person(s) who paid to have this kind of research done?

It may be linked to the criminal charges being investigated for Manafort's FARA violations. We have to remember that Fusion WAS ALREADY under investigation for FARA violations. They are the reason that after these elections we have added to the law.

There is more to foreign finance in elections when there are people or aspects that are tied to national security. If a foreign intelligence agent gets information on a person who then becomes a president, they could hold our executive office in check with blackmail or scandals. This is ONE aspect of the danger of FARA violations.

We can look back to Bill Clintons FARA violations by allowing Chinese investors to participate in our election via cash and protecting their ability to do so through his influence. What did they get in return of value?

Its not new.

Opposition research is perfectly legal in the USA. An candidate will have investigations done on his or her opponent and then has such information released or uses it in a timely manner. The research needs to be done well, and truthful, something that can be verified, contain no lies and has to be done before the election is over where it can be released to the public to sway the populace when it comes to the election.

Usually this kind of research ends either the day before or the day of an actual election. I do know that Clinton’s team did hire people to do a psych research on Trump to find the triggers to make him look bad, and they did opposition research as well.

Yes, but they continued this research and released the dossier and Jr meeting info AFTER the election. Also Trumps lawyers I believe are filing suit because the Dossier is full of baseless defamations and outright fabrications. Getting back to your question as to why banking records for Fusion GPS may be being gathered....evidence for court for this suit as well.

One does not approach Fusion setting a goal to find out the smoking gun, and they will refuse that. Rather one approaches Fusion and say I want this person or business investigated, and leave it at that. And set an end date for the investigation, letting them do their work.

And in the process, they will go through all of the public information and compile a report from such documentation. If the person has business or dealing over in another country, they hire out specific subcontractors to go and look, and get the public information and send such back. They draw no conclusions, letting the evidence do that. They are hired by lawyers to do investigations and research for them.

Yes, Steele was hired to add to the information ALREADY compiled. The Russian Lawyer was hired to set up Trump JR into engaging in an inappropriate conversation. The tactic was used by Fusion while retained by the DNC and Clinton, but the information offered to JR initially by the Russian lawyer was compiled BEFORE steele. This is what the DNC bought primarily in addition to a plan for collusion evidence creation.

A set up for JR. Access and an in for the hook. You cant just walk up to a billion dollar organization with made up evidence of Clinton finance crimes (As promised initially). You would not even get the first email in response. Thats what fusion did, it made a good looking fish for a Trump campaign member. The idea was to fabricate something about Clinton that they can easily refute and feed it to Trumps people if nothing was found on Trump. The DNC and Clinton must have loved the idea. Accuse Trump of colluding with Russians because they hired and sent them there. Brilliant.

So as far as the Russia dossier, was not the only part of the investigation that was done on Trump. And the only reason why they looked at Russia in particular is from Trump and his family stating that they do a lot of business with Russia, travel over there, but no business is done in Russia, raising a flag.

We do not know what all was uncovered by the Fusion team on Trump, but it has to be substantial and pretty much expansive, covering a lot of the Trump’s business dealings, and all of the lawsuits he has been involved in and the banks he has used, along with what every the public information is out there. And it goes into each and every country that Trump is involved in, with different subcontractors for each one, either local people, or people with a working knowledge of the language, culture and governmental processes as not to violate local laws.

Trumps business dealings were never seen, rumored, or implied to be nefarious. He never dealt with mafias and state leaders, UN delegates, or high finance banks beyond asking for loans he was at their mercy to like the rest of the out crowd. He was into TV and real estate. Not defence contracts / state fracking rights sales or drug running.

I already explained where the Russia link comes into play. Fusion GPS was already working on framing Trump for Russia collusion if it failed to find anything real.

Now there are several things to consider: There was more than one client that has hired Fusion to look into Trump. And from the way some of this reads, the investigation that Fusion is doing, is far from over, and is still ongoing. And if it is, who then is funding this. The report did state those interested in Trump are US nationals.

Fusion is done. They are busy getting ready to decide who draws the short straw in their boat.

The client WAS a far right website that wanted to rub out Trump early on. Maybe they had an alternate favorite or just a hard on for Trump. The DNC and Clinton bought the package deal when Trump became a GOP nominee.

Steele was hired during the DNC and Clintons time as the sole client. AFTER the election they used the opposition research gathered illegally by foreign persons not aligned with our national interests and staged the fabrication of collusion to act against a standing president.

This is INSANE.

originally posted by: bluechevytree
the Obama administration corrupted every fiber of the government more than it was already corrupted, even if trump serves for 8 years that won`t be enough time to weed out the traitors and undue all that corruption.

Right.

Then why didn't Obama release any of this in September?

He didn't because he was afraid it would look political.

BTW: GPS Fusion was originally hired by Republicans, and then later hired by Hillary, but the original hire was by Republicans in the primary, that's well-established but you haven't heard that.

The testimony Feinstein put out has been suppressed by Grassley for 6 months, why? If this is such an outrage, why would he suppress it?

I'm waiting.

Why are you ignoring the fact that Steele later determined that the NYC FBI was actively working to suppress, and not investigate the hacking, and so he stopped working with the FBI.

Why is every other country convinced Trump is a Russian asset? It's all a world conspiracy?

Why did Bannon say the exact same thing? "Money-laundering and collusion"? Papagapulos says the same thing? Page? Steele, former head of MI-6?

You really hate the information, I truly understand. I would hate it if my candidate conned me. I understand. The problems is that I know that you'd take Putin over Dems, and that's pathetic.