Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: mirageman

I am guessing (oh how I hate accounting) that this must be the relevant section:

Research, Development, Test and Evaluation, Defense-Wide

For expenses of activities and agencies of the Department of Defense (other than the military departments), necessary for basic and applied scientific research, development, test and evaluation; advanced research projects as may be designated and determined by the Secretary of Defense, pursuant to law; maintenance, rehabilitation, lease, and operation of facilities and equipment, $20,790,634,000, to remain available for obligation until September 30, 2009.

Source is the same (Link)

So, a whopping 20 and a half billion to spend on (allocate to?) research until September 2009.

Not very specific. In which document does the DOD have to explain what it did with it's billions for research and development, test and evaluation?

Is this a public document?

BT

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Sorry, good sir, I somehow missed your reply.

Now is not the time to drop your guard.

This sounds vaguely ominous :-)

If we take the stance (for the sake of interesting discussion) that the ETH is dead and is now to be replaced with the IDH by those who "shape the discourse" on this subject, could it be that the upcoming rush into space makes the IDH preferable to the ETH in such a scenario for those who might have an interest in keeping UAP's alive on the fringes?

I mean, a couple of million humans fooling around in orbit and seeing not a single UAP cruising by would be a bit of a problem (not insurmountable of course) with regards to keeping the good old ETH alive. Much more convenient if they "pop out" from some "dimension" while we get on with the space thing.

Of course, as you know, I have always felt that we would be quite unable to make the distinction between technology and "magic" of potential extraterrestrial visitors, because they would probably be quite able to makes us believe whatever they want. Or at least our senses.

But if you want to "sell" the idea to the masses, you can't really go with such an abstract and unknowable idea. You have to go with something simpler, more star trek like, and when it fails to materialize, you need something simple to replace it with. And, hey presto, "dimensions" sounds very scientific.

I just don't get why they drag the ancient gods into this.

Just a thought.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

[John Greenewald ak Blackvault]“I have tried repeatedly, and have now given up, to do an interview with Mr. Elizondo to address some of these points. I shared nice messages back and forth with their PR person, and then nothing.”

All I can say to that is look at the people who Elizondo has spoke to since becoming "The Amazing Zondo". Yes he's given soundbites to mainstream outlets. But they can be ignored because there is no in depth analysis. It is for the people who only think about UFOs when the news prompts them to.

But the only long form interviews have, with the exception of an interview for Croatian TV, seem to have come from TTSA friendly media perhaps even with their own vested interested involved in promoting the stories. The UFO Con 2018 interview was obviously an important selling point for the organisers for instance.

Thinking of Steven Greer, it appears he has been silent on TDL and his group. I’ve tried to find something current on Greer's ‘ thoughts about the subject but it seems there’s very little.

Does anyone have any info on this?

a reply to: beetee

...I just don't get why they drag the ancient gods into this.

Wasn't that part of the fictional stuff in DeLonge's books (like he wrote them!)?

The current media phase (post-Oct 2017) does not feature that narrative.

a reply to: mirageman

It was quite a significant part of the "Gods" book written by Levenda.

Ancient gods, cargo cults and so forth. Not all ancient gods, as I recall, but a select few. Bacchus was curiously absent, for one. So not all gods qualify,

The next will be "Man" to be followed by "War".

Interestingly Levenda commented on twitter that he had to "rewrite" and edit the next two books due to "events concerning TTSA of the last 6 months or so".
Allegedly to pull things together for the readers to see relevance a little better. I don't quite see what events could have possibly necessitated this edit.

It seemed a rather curious comment.

BT

a reply to: beetee

Well OK. But that's fiction my friend. So why should we pay attention to it?

a reply to: mirageman

A-ha! But it is markeded as non-fiction. It is to be the groundwork for this new view on the "phenomenon".
And Levenda has a good amount of research in the book, but there are some (in my view) difficulties with the theories and conclusions he draws. Or, rather, hints at. Because it doesn't really conclude much. Just hints. Maybe this and could it be that...

So, it has at least the trappings of research.

I am willing to bet that Mr Levenda would protest your claim that it is fiction.

Cheers,

BT

originally posted by: beetee

I just don't get why they drag the ancient gods into this.

Just a thought.

I'm starting to entertain the thought that these true believers are Missionaries for their UAP/ IDH Religion. If so, this is the early stages of taking it to a wider public. The theory doesn't exactly resolve the neuroscience/biophysics aspect but fits everything else fairly well including the TTS literature.

originally posted by: Willtell
Thinking of Steven Greer, it appears he has been silent on TDL and his group. I’ve tried to find something current on Greer's ‘ thoughts about the subject but it seems there’s very little.

Does anyone have any info on this?

Afaik Tom was close to Greer during the Disclosure project. Tom claimed that he had a CE IV using Greers protocols.
Now they have opposite views. Greer thinks Tdl is spreading desinfo. TdL told us on his AMA , we shouldn´t follow
Greer.

Here are recent comments from Greer:

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: beetee

A-ha! But it is markeded as non-fiction. It is to be the groundwork for this new view on the "phenomenon".

Right OK 'Take on me' .

I haven't bothered to read any of DeLonge's ghost written books. So my mistake. Although I hardly pay much attention to Levenda either. He might protest my claim it is fiction indeed in that case.

Does he present anything that is 100% verifiable fact in that book?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: beetee

A-ha! But it is markeded as non-fiction. It is to be the groundwork for this new view on the "phenomenon".

Right OK . I haven't bothered to read any of DeLonge's ghost written books. So my mistake. Although I hardly pay much attention to Levenda either. He might protest my claim it is fiction indeed in that case.

Does he present anything that is 100% verifiable fact in that book?

probably not.

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: beetee

I just don't get why they drag the ancient gods into this.

Just a thought.

I'm starting to entertain the thought that these true believers are Missionaries for their UAP/ IDH Religion. If so, this is the early stages of taking it to a wider public. The theory doesn't exactly resolve the neuroscience/biophysics aspect but fits everything else fairly well including the TTS literature.

On that note, I can't remember where I read this, but someone made an interesting comment about Vallee's writings on Christianity in the 1970s and how the existence of Christ didn't ultimately matter in the course of Christian history (or something like that)...

a reply to: The GUT

Interesting.

But aren't they going about their missionary work in the wrong way if they call religion cargo cults? I mean, religion is about the search for something divine, so by trivializing religion aren't they shooting themselves in the foot?

I might be old fashioned, but for me some manipulative bastard from another dimension isn't going to cut it, as far as religion go. Got to have at least this Universe under his belt. But, of course, it wasn't always a requirement for being divine. Even pharaos and roman emperors managed to be divine, and there was no shortage of manipulative bastards in the ranks there.

Won't be easy to sell it to the masses though, except perhaps on 4chan, where they seem to be quick to embrace new deities of any ilk. Even frogs.

Anyway, who do you think are the "missionaries" of the outfit?

BT

a reply to: mirageman

He does, of course. Lots of facts. What he doesn't present is a convincing causal connection between the facts he presents and the theory that comes out in the other end. In my view, of course.

For example it is a fact that there were, and still might be, Cargo Cults. It is also a fact that people had a huge variety of gods in the past. That does not mean that all religions, or even some, were manifestation of cargo cults. It is, of course, possible. But if you are to advocate this as a theory, you have to provide some way to get to the conclusion.

Convincingly. And, although others may disagree, I fail to see how Mr Levenda does this.

The problem, of course, is how do you distinguish a cargo cult from any other religious belief? Well, you look at the material and you see if there is something that points to something in the real world that caused the religion to appear. Like the case seems to be with Cargo Cults. In our case, it would be the "phenomenon". But you can't really do that, because what is the phenomenon? A US WW2 plane is well defined, but the phenomenon is useless as a basis for comparison with any ancient religion because it lacks a proper definition.

But lots of facts.

Cheers.

BT

a reply to: beetee

Thanks for the clarification and update BT.

I think the "Sekret" books are just a subset of the franchise and appealling mainly to the DeLonge fans. The mainstream media effort has been a much smoother, conservative operation by not making any mention of risqué topics like aliens or ancient gods. This is obviously a planned offensive on different fronts.

Whatever that is I still see an effort to say one thing here, do another thing there and then evaluate what the general population believe it was all about. All to ensure that nobody knows for sure.

a reply to: TheMadScientist2

Thanks for the info

Obviously, nobody knows anything in the first place.

We're all like blind mice when it comes to this subject.

People want scientific proof and certainty without risk as if knowledge is free.

As if we can just read a book or two or listen to some expert on YouTube

I doubt we easily get this knowledge

We'll have to learn to live with faith and uncertainty until certainty arrives or get down and dirty and find the truth for yourself

a reply to: mirageman

Levenda is half-decent on historical fact.

But then he sneeks in his personal religion, without any basis on facts.
He might think there's a basis, but I doubt mot readers would..
unless they suffer from his same selection bias.

Kevin

Levenda also wrote the Simon Necronomicon, so its not like he’s new at cooking up religious material (in that case, chaldean fire magic stuff he got from his university library).