True Pundit - Mueller Yanks Comey’s Immunity Deal; Falling Out Between Former FBI Bosses Puts Come

a reply to: Xcathdra

Comey wasn't part of the executive branch. FBI primary role is the prosecution of the law, but since the formation of the FBI it also enforces the law.

Comey's notes do not fall under the jurisdiction of the executive branch. Executive privilege has nothing to do with him releasing said notes.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Xcathdra

Comey wasn't part of the executive branch. FBI primary role is the prosecution of the law, but since the formation of the FBI it also enforces the law.

Comey's notes do not fall under the jurisdiction of the executive branch. Executive privilege has nothing to do with him releasing said notes.

The memos he prepared were from a time when he was.

Secondly the FBI doesnt prosecute anyone. The FBI's main function is investigatory.

FBI rules says otherwise as to who owns those memos.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Tell me again where the US Congress fits in when it comes to wanting testimony from a member of the executive branch about the private conversations with the President?

What does congress have to do with this, based upon the claim that you made?

While your at it tell me how it applies when a member of the executive branch wants to release that information to the media without approval.

Comey was not a member of the executive branch at the time.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Xcathdra

Tell me again where the US Congress fits in when it comes to wanting testimony from a member of the executive branch about the private conversations with the President?

What does congress have to do with this, based upon the claim that you made?

While your at it tell me how it applies when a member of the executive branch wants to release that information to the media without approval.

Comey was not a member of the executive branch at the time.

Yup - read the second article I linked that addresses FBI policy and how the FBI classified Comeys documents as government and not personal.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes, I've read that article. It's at the top of most google searches on the issue.

If you read it carefully, they are smart enough to add specific caveats in the wording which indicates they are not entirely sure of what they are suggesting.

Comey was no longer at the FBI and they cannot classify, nor stop the disclosure of, personal recollections.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm pretty certain executive privilege has to be asserted. It's not just a blanket "you talked to the President, you can't say anything unless he tells you he can" deal.

It is a guideline and not based on anything written in the Constitution. Because of that there is a difference of opinion by legal scholars as o how it is applied and what it covers. Factor in agency policies and its more of a mess.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes, I've read that article. It's at the top of most google searches on the issue.

If you read it carefully, they are smart enough to add specific caveats in the wording which indicates they are not entirely sure of what they are suggesting.

Comey was no longer at the FBI and they cannot classify, nor stop the disclosure of, personal recollections.

If you read the article you would see the FBI classified those documents as work related and not personal. That means Comey could not release the memos like he did since they are not his. That is beside the fact 4 of the 7 contained classified info and were marked as such.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yup - read the second article I linked that addresses FBI policy and how the FBI classified Comeys documents as government and not personal.

Classified after he handed them over to Mueller for them to investigate?

He handed many notes to the SC, not just the one memo he gave to a friend to leak.

Also, it appears you are backing down from the Executive privilege nonsense.

a reply to: Xcathdra

If you read the article you would see the FBI classified those documents as work related and not personal.

Which memos and was it because they were now part of an investigation?

That means Comey could not release the memos like he did since they are not his. That is beside the fact 4 of the 7 contained classified info.

Was the personal memo he gave to his friend one of the memos that contained classified info?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yup - read the second article I linked that addresses FBI policy and how the FBI classified Comeys documents as government and not personal.

Classified after he handed them over to Mueller for them to investigate?

He handed many notes to the SC, not just the one memo he gave to a friend to leak.

Also, it appears you are backing down from the Executive privilege nonsense.

No classified from the moment he created them. They were government documents and not personal memos.

As for executive privilege not really. Conversations with the president are private especially when they deal with deliberative process.

Deliberative process privilege is the common-law principle that the internal processes of the executive branch of a government are immune from normal disclosure or discovery in civil litigations, Freedom of Information Act requests, etc.

The theory behind the protection is that by guaranteeing confidentiality, the government will receive better or more candid advice, recommendations and opinions, resulting in better decisions for society as a whole. The deliberative process privilege is often in dynamic tension with the principle of maximal transparency in government.

In the context of the U.S. presidential offices and their workproducts, this principle is often referred to as executive privilege, or as a type of executive privilege that is distinct from "presidential communications privilege".

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

He was former, but what he released was menos he typed as the acting fbi director.

As long as he didn't release them while in the position and they didn't contain classified info, what law was broken?

It wasn't just his recolection after the fact, it was his actual memos written when he was director.

Doesn't matter. He claimed them to be his personal recollections and they were released after he was out of the position.

That is all it takes.

A ss member is not at liberty to divulge the details of private conversations of government officials to media members as far as I know.

They write and sell books on such things.

Wrong. The notes he took on Federal resources were classified when they were made and stay so unless they are officially de classified. He was give immunity on the leaking in exchange for testimony.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Right, it's an understanding not a "it's classified under executive privilege" cut and dry, done scenario as you presented it in the comment I responded to.

Trump had already talked about his conversations with Comey. In court, bringing up a conversation like that opens the door to that conversation generally speaking. It's a tough ask to say "well we're going to talk about this part of the conversation but not that part because reasons" and have it work. For me, the biggest sign that the executive privilege argument is dead in the water is the fact that Mueller has Comey's documents and nobody has asserted executive privilege for those documents, even after all these months.

Now, as to whether Comey violated FBI or DoJ policies with his leak, that's a different question.

originally posted by: introvert
Which memos and was it because they were now part of an investigation?

All 7 the memos comey created in relation to the claims he made.

originally posted by: introvert
Was the personal memo he gave to his friend one of the memos that contained classified info?

The memo he provided belonged to the FBI and were not personal memos. This is what I am trying to tell you. The FBI policy classified those memos as work related documents and are by extension the property of the FBI and not Comey's.

You can make an argument that he could talk about it however he is prohibited from releasing the memo.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No classified from the moment he created them. They were government documents and not personal memos.

Which memos were classified upon creation? The official FBI memos? Of course.

The personal memo? No so much. You can't classify personal recollections unless they become part of an official investigation.

If that were the case, SS agents, politicians and such would not be able to write so many books after they leave their positions.

As for executive privilege not really. Conversations with the president are private especially when they deal with deliberative process.

Not really? EP only applies to subpoenas and other actions through various branches of government. He cannot use EP to hush-up Comey.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

He was former, but what he released was menos he typed as the acting fbi director.

As long as he didn't release them while in the position and they didn't contain classified info, what law was broken?

It wasn't just his recolection after the fact, it was his actual memos written when he was director.

Doesn't matter. He claimed them to be his personal recollections and they were released after he was out of the position.

That is all it takes.

A ss member is not at liberty to divulge the details of private conversations of government officials to media members as far as I know.

They write and sell books on such things.

Wrong. The notes he took on Federal resources were classified when they were made and stay so unless they are officially de classified. He was give immunity on the leaking in exchange for testimony.

I don't believe it has ever been proven he received an immunity deal.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Did Comey violate executive privilege by testifying in the Senate and disclosing his conversations with the president?

No, according to experts on executive privilege, in part because Comey is no longer an administration official. Moreover, the president may have waived any privilege by also publicly discussing his contacts with Comey.

“Executive privilege does not apply to a private citizen who is called to testify before the Senate,” said Mark J. Rozell, dean of the school of policy and government at George Mason University and the author of a 2010 book on executive privilege. “Trump tripped himself up, first by speaking about his conversation and by firing Comey.”

Typically, legal privileges are invoked by people who have evidence or documents that someone else is seeking. By invoking their privilege, they are saying they are refusing to turn over the material. But in this instance, Comey was a private citizen who was willing to speak to the Senate. “There is no legal prohibition on him, as a private citizen, discussing his conversations with the president,” Rozell said, so long as he was not revealing information that was classified as secret.

And Comey said Thursday that he intentionally ensured that nothing in his memos about the Trump meetings contained anything that could be considered classified material

So did Comey violate any law or privilege by releasing the memo recounting his conversations with Trump?

Probably not. Several lawyers said he was free to reveal the information. But some were troubled by Comey disclosing the actual memo.

“These were unclassified notes made by Comey himself. I know of no legal bar to his releasing them to the press,” said Walter Dellinger, a former White House lawyer under President Clinton.

Lawyers pointed to the dozens of books written in which former White House aides described their times working with the president, including details about their confidential conversations. The 1st Amendment and its protection for the freedom of speech would probably stand in the way of any effort to block such a book, assuming it did not reveal classified information.

But some lawyers said government employees are prohibited from taking documents from their agencies and releasing them to the public. They said Comey may have left himself open to criticism if he released to the press the memos he wrote while employed at the FBI.

link

a reply to: Shamrock6

Trump administration

While investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election, the Senate Intelligence Committee subpoenaed former FBI Director James Comey to testify. Comey was fired several weeks before being subpoenaed but had appeared before the committee once before in March while still serving as director. Less than a week before the scheduled hearing, it was reported that President Trump was considering invoking executive privilege to prevent Comey's testimony.[34][35] According to attorney Page Pate, it seemed unlikely that executive privilege would be applicable here, as Trump had publicly spoken about the encounters in question multiple times.[36]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, a White House spokesman, released a statement on June 5 stating: "The president's power to assert executive privilege is very well-established. However, in order to facilitate a swift and thorough examination of the facts sought by the Senate Intelligence Committee, President Trump will not assert executive privilege regarding James Comey's scheduled testimony."[37]

Also in June 2017, other officials in the Trump administration, including Dan Coats and Jeff Sessions, declined to describe in congressional hearings conversations they had with President Trump, on the ground that they wanted Trump to have an opportunity to decide whether to invoke executive privilege. According to Robert S. Litt, former general counsel of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in the Obama administration, this argument may be legitimate under the presidential communications privilege:

[T]he privilege belongs to the President, and inferior officers should not take it upon themselves to disclose such communications without express permission from the White House. Certainly that is how these issues were handled in the Obama Administration: when Congress asked an agency for information about presidential communications, as it often did, the agency consulted with the White House to see if there were objections to responding.[38][39]

Democratic members of Congress emphasized that they were not seeking classified information, and strongly objected to the rationale given by the officials of the Trump administration.[40]

originally posted by: introvert
Which memos were classified upon creation? The official FBI memos? Of course.

The personal memo? No so much. You can't classify personal recollections unless they become part of an official investigation.

If that were the case, SS agents, politicians and such would not be able to write so many books after they leave their positions.

Yes - the personal memos are government property and the FBI classified them as such.

originally posted by: introvert
Not really? EP only applies to subpoenas and other actions through various branches of government. He cannot use EP to hush-up Comey.

No it applies to more and i cited the portion above in response to shamrocks comments.

a reply to: Xcathdra

All 7 the memos comey created in relation to the claims he made.

Was his personal memo also classified and why was it classified? Because it's now part of the SC investigation?

The memo he provided belonged to the FBI and were not personal memos. This is what I am trying to tell you. The FBI policy classified those memos as work related documents and are by extension the property of the FBI and not Comey's.

So he did not give the FBI his personal memo that his friend leaked? That makes sense. He wouldn't have to.

You can make an argument that he could talk about it however he is prohibited from releasing the memo.

He can do whatever he wants with his personal property, as long as he doesn't divulge classified info.

The memo being classified for the purposes of the investigation does not mean it contained classified info. We went through all of that with Hillary and her email nonsense.

The FBI and other originating departments classified material that was publicly-available and generated by US media sources.

a reply to: Xcathdra

inferior officers

Comey had already been fired when the memos leaked. So....

Yea.

ETA - there's also a difference between "should not" and "must not." Again, we're back to an understanding versus a legal principle.