Trump should respond to North Korea's ICBM launch

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
They ain't crazy?

No, Khrushchev banging his shoe and saying, 'We will bury you', is what sane people do.

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Tempter

Either we are serious about stopping this guy from launching nuclear missiles or we're really not.

Korea hasn't launched any nuclear missiles.
On the other hand the uS has THADD ballistic missile installations on the Peninsula, carrier groups, bombers and troops running 'exercises' threatening them every day.

Besides, it isn't about Korea, its about containment and isolation of China.

Does it bother you we are in the better position militarily? They are our enemy, as defined by them. And no, this isn't about China as much as you think. NK is a legit threat.

lil teeny Korea a threat to the mighty US empire?

Love the dichotomy, whichever hypocrisy suits you.

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: intrptr
Yah how dare they test missile defense. Nobody should do that except US, lol.

Now you're talking like a real man, US supremacy.

"Real" men don't bully little nations around.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Tempter

Either we are serious about stopping this guy from launching nuclear missiles or we're really not.

Korea hasn't launched any nuclear missiles.
On the other hand the uS has THADD ballistic missile installations on the Peninsula, carrier groups, bombers and troops running 'exercises' threatening them every day.

Besides, it isn't about Korea, its about containment and isolation of China.

Does it bother you we are in the better position militarily? They are our enemy, as defined by them. And no, this isn't about China as much as you think. NK is a legit threat.

lil teeny Korea a threat to the mighty US empire?

Love the dichotomy, whichever hypocrisy suits you.

When they have ICBM capable of reaching all of the U.S. and nuclear warheads for them, yes.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Tempter

Either we are serious about stopping this guy from launching nuclear missiles or we're really not.

Korea hasn't launched any nuclear missiles.
On the other hand the uS has THADD ballistic missile installations on the Peninsula, carrier groups, bombers and troops running 'exercises' threatening them every day.

Besides, it isn't about Korea, its about containment and isolation of China.

Does it bother you we are in the better position militarily? They are our enemy, as defined by them. And no, this isn't about China as much as you think. NK is a legit threat.

lil teeny Korea a threat to the mighty US empire?

Love the dichotomy, whichever hypocrisy suits you.

When they have ICBM capable of reaching all of the U.S. and nuclear warheads for them, yes.

Thats what I mean. When it suits the warmongers they're the supposed threat again. Pretense for war, the evil dictator with his puny nuclear WMD force hasn't shot anyone.

The real threat is to US dominance of the region. Unjust US military dominance of the Eastern Pacific far from the continental US where we have no business throwing our weight around.

But thats not how bullies talk, bullies blame their victims for what they are about to do to them, need an excuse to use as pretext, something the uS Bully has used (WMD and evil dictators) over and over.

How stupid you think people are? How stupid are you?

All the guy wants to do is use one sanction after another after another. He must think that the "next time" sanctions are given, NK will finally give in and stop threatening us. The US will hold an emergency meeting at the UN tomorrow afternoon. In other words, all that will be done are sanctions.

That's not the point of sanctions - it's already clear threatening (be it sanctions or "fiery death") doesn't work. Sanctions result in a reduction in their GNP. Eventually they will have to decide what is more important.. keeping the lights on, or continuing to develop nuclear weapons. It's the slow throttling of their economy that will necessitate their curtailing their nuclear program.

"Real" men don't bully little nations around.

While I agree Trump's goading of Kim isn't the best solution, if you ignore his social rantings, the U.S. has done little to "threaten" NK.. so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Did we bully them while they tested normal ballistic missiles? Or any other weapon program? Nope. Only very specifically we are pushing back on nuclear weapons. Why you try to paint NK as some sort of victim boggles the mind. Just because they have less nukes.. and they are a smaller country, doesn't magically make them innocent.

Your hate for the U.S. military or government is biasing your view of NK words and actions.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: dianajune
a reply to: fleabits

.

Remember Otto Warmbier? There's no doubt that NK is responsible for his death, and yet NOTHING has been done in retaliation.
....

That's derelection of duty if you ask me. Remove the threat and be done with it.

While what was done to that young man was horrible, you don't risk hundreds of thousands if not millions of dead for one citizen.

You can act cavalier and say too bad about the dead. Seoul could be hit hard before we can take out NK conventional weapons, let alone their Nukes.

It's a choice of no good options. Do nothing and it invites an unstable NK Leader to overreact with its nuclear capability. Take out their Nuke capability and you better be damn sure you get every single bit of their program. Even if you do that, South Korea could have a horrible amount of casualties from conventional, bio and chemical weapons. None of these options are great.

You have to explore every available option till you resort to military options. Problem is, North Korea will probably do something stupid, forcing us to do something that hasn't been done since the end of WWII. North Korea isnt going to stop it's reckless belligerence most probably. We need to be ready for every eventuality.

I will be amazed if this situation can be solved without massive loss of life, bit we have to try.

I understand that diplomacy and sanctions are preferable IF they would work. But in Kim's case they haven't. Kim's nuke program keeps getting better and better.....we have been threatened often.....and yet all Trump wants are more sanctions.

Countless sanctions have been given but they have not been effective at all. Not a one.

It's time to nip this in the bud before WE are killed. It's time to take off the proverbial gloves.

Here's my take.

Lay waste to NK and send in the marines to paint the lines after the place cools off.



Fred.

a reply to: bluemooone2


You mean perhaps Kim Jong-un could stop starving the populace?

All he has to do is step down, and abolish their ineffective communist dictatorship. Normalizing the nation and reunifying under capitalism/democracy with SK would solve their food/money/health/housing/job/safety problems.

NK is long overdue for a revolution.

a reply to: odzeandennz

EDIT: Forgot to include two of the most important examples of unchecked NK aggression and murder. Thanks AM for pointing this out

82 American sailors were captured on the USS Pueblo, when NK seized it from international waters. They were tortured and treated like animals, which alone should earn Kim a noose with his name on it. Also in 1976 10 American soldiers were murdered by NK savages with axes, for simply trimming a tree the NK cultists said was planted by one of the Kim dictators.

Did you forget the time they shelled a SK island? How about mined a SK waterway and killed SK sailors? What about the citizens they have kidnapped, from SK and around the world? Or their execution/starvation and systematic oppression of 10s of millions of people?

You do realize Kim is a despot war criminal, right? He is a perpetual human and civil rights abuser, and must be stopped. NK having nuclear weapons is far worse than any half-baked terrorist group. Unlike terrorist groups, NK now has the means to vector that weapon to anywhere in the world - unlike terror groups who are basically limited to port delivery for nuclear weapons and INDs.

a reply to: fredrodgers1960


Seconded

Provided we stick to military and government targets, I say take them down.

Also given the fact that at least 25% of their population is "hostile" to the government, fomenting a revolution would probably be trivial. Basically they would need supplied with information and weaponry, and the NK situation could be resolved from within. Another option is providing unfiltered Internet access to NK's subjects and slaves.

originally posted by: JBurns
Did you forget the time they shelled a SK island? How about mined a SK waterway and killed SK sailors? What about the citizens they have kidnapped, from SK and around the world? Or their execution/starvation and systematic oppression of 10s of millions of people?

Do you want to wipe South Korea's ass too? They have a military, when they get shelled it's up to them to do something about it but it didnt seem to be such an issue.

a reply to: intrptr


82 US soldiers tortured/kidnapped from Intl waters by NK aggressors, a US naval vessel was also hijacked in this incident;
10 US soldiers killed in 1976, for simply trimming a tree planted by the NK cult's leader;
What do you call the shelling of SK islands?
How about mining SK waters and killing SK sailors as a result?
..or kidnapping SK citizens to kill or torture them?
..or assasinating his half brother with VX nerve agent?
..or threatening to use WMDs against a litany of sovereign nations (and American/NATO allies)?

No. NK isn't the victim here, nor are they the good guy. They've earned ever last bit of hardship, and much more. It is my sincere hope that we not allow the despotic and criminal Kim regime the means to kill more innocent people. We should end this threat here and now.

One free Korea. A nation cannot survive half slave and half free.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


It is also up to us to do something, since we are still at war with them. I agree SK should do the heavy lifting when they retaliate over provocations like shelling/mining, but the WMDs are not a SK problem. The WMDs can impact anywhere in the world, including the United States which crosses a red line.

It is SK's fault they are now in such a precarious situation, since they've left this situation to fester for so many decades. Several past US Presidents are also responsible, starting with the politician that refused to use nuclear weapons against the advice of his general staff to decisively end the Korean War. Unfortunately that does nothing to lower the risk to CONUS.

Why not eliminate this risk before it has a real chance of biting us? A couple dozen nuclear weapons are manageable with BMD. It is highly unlikely their launch procedure is refined enough to be 100% reliable either. Under stress and cyber/EW/EMP or graphite bomb attacks I don't see them being too successful.

Worth the risk though.

originally posted by: JBurns
It is also up to us to do something, since we are still at war with them.

I missed the part in your tirade where Americans soldiers got killed, captured or tortured. The South Koreans can put their big boy pants on and take care of themselves.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


EDIT: Just looked at my posts, seems I did forget to include the Pueblo which is a mistake on my part. Thanks for pointing that out though

I also forgot to include the ax attacks near the DMZ. I will try to look up specifics on that though

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: dianajune

Yeah. There have been several threads about that.

It takes a good sized thermonuclear device to do what they are talking about. No evidence that North Korea has anything like that, much less something that would fit any of the satellites they've got up there.

Could they do it sometime? Sure. Are they doing it now? Highly doubtful. Do you think it would be a good idea to just start shooting their satellites because they might have nukes? Probably not:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There have been so many reports on the possibility of NK having EMP's on their satellites it would be foolish, imho, to assume otherwise. Their satellites are in just the right orbit.

Re that thread on the Kessler effect - isn't there a way we can bring down their satellites w/o causing this, or at least disable them?

What I can't get over is that no matter how many or how severe those sanctions are, Kim just doesn't respond the way he ought. I think it's time to take off the gloves. I don't want to see anyone die....diplomacy is preferable, of course.

Sometimes the most prudent solution isn't the most preferable one.

a reply to: JBurns

What do you call the shelling of SK islands?

Half the Korean peninsula is occupied by the US military, threat posturing ongoing for Decades. Evverryything they do is in response to that.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: dianajune

Before anyone starts a fight, this question should be answered: Who would win in a fight, a man with nothing to lose, or a man who stands to lose something?..........................................

Lil Kim strikes me as one who, if he stood to lose everything, would unleash all he's got.

The immediate threat would be to his neighbors in South Korea and Japan, but now the entire world is within his reach when it comes to those nukes.

He keeps threatening the US.

Trump keeps giving sanctions.

Kim keeps threatening the US (and others) and keeps improving his WMD's.

Trump keeps giving sanctions.

No progress has been made on the diplomatic side. It's time to take off those proverbial gloves. I am concerned if we keep going like this - just giving sanctions, which amounts to doing nada - one of his "tests" will turn out to be the real deal ande many will die.

We need to nip this threat in the bud.

Edit: double post. Sorry about that...not sure how it happened.