Trump should respond to North Korea's ICBM launch

The situation that the United States finds itself in with regard to North Korea is complicated by the fact that few people living today have had significant contact with the personalities who fought WW2, even if they were only enlisted servicemen and women who were one's parents.

Today's political supporters listen to the pronouncements of the president, and even at their "toughest", are completely oblivious to the fact that he/she are being spoken to by a piece of puff pastry from the desert table.

Similarly, in China, much has been made of President Xi's consolidation of power. The "puff pastry" thinks that Xi is a "leader". He doesn't recognize him as a bloated item from the Dim Sum tray. He is not the Chinese equivalent of Hermann Goering, but he is in that ball park.

Modern diplomatic démarches are particularly stressful to watch, from this perspective.

Note: Vladimir Putin is closer to what one expects of a realistic and serious national leader, but he is operating in a bizarre international environment.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

A 15-20 year recession? No problem, man.

.

Well we just went through that with since 2000. Tax cuts, stimulus and 3 massive rounds of quantitative easing just masked parts of it.

Besides war is good for the Economy isn't it?

If North Korea makes a wrong decision, things will not go well. Everyone will suffer, some more than others.

a reply to: pavil

Yet Trump was responsible for that recovery right?

originally posted by: DoubleDNH
a reply to: JBurns

A couple things. People seem to think this is going to be another gulf war where we can operate at will and hit any target we want. North Korea has very sophisticated SAM installations and other ground-to-air defenses that we have not had to deal with in the Middle East for the most part.

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Care to point to these top of the line SAM systems? I don't see Russia Nor China Supplying them any of their good stuff.

Northk Korea's bark may be worse than bite in theat to shoot down U.S. bombers

North Korea has threatened to shoot down U.S. bombers flying near the Korean peninsula, but it would have difficulty matching its words with action given aging air defense systems mostly dating to the Cold War, military experts said.

Last week, North Korea seemed to be unaware that the U.S. B-1B bombers had even been dispatched as it took no action to counter the U.S. patrol at that time, a South Korean lawmaker who was briefed by South Korea’s spy agency said on Tuesday. Washington appeared to have disclosed the flight path of its B-1B bombers intentionally after the non response, the lawmaker said. A Pentagon spokesman said: “We won’t confirm what North Korea did or did not know about our B-1B flight on the 23rd, but the mission was completed without incident.”

North Korea could attempt to fire surface-to-air missiles at the U.S. aircraft, but its systems would barely have the range to strike targets outside of North Korean airspace, missile experts said.

North Korea has roughly 810 fighter planes, according to South Korea’s 2016 defense ministry white paper. But officials and experts say most of these, largely of old Soviet and Chinese origin, are severely outdated and have been plagued with accidents.

Their KN-06 is a variant of the S-300 most probably with Older Systems that the U.S. has had time to examine in person from Former Soviet Client States.

Another missile system, the SA-5, has a longer range of 250 km (155 miles) but it relies on old technology which U.S. aircraft could beat, Rand Corp’s Bennett said.

SA-5 is 1960's Tech. SA-2 is 1950's Tech.

Anti Aircraft guns are rather useless in today Modern Air Warfare for high flying Bombing runs. North Korea uses them more for target practice on their own officials.

North Korea has roughly 810 fighter planes, according to South Korea’s 2016 defense ministry white paper. But officials and experts say most of these, largely of old Soviet and Chinese origin, are severely outdated and have been plagued with accidents.

Having a lot of antiquated systems doesn't mean much. Air Superiority again will be with the U.S. and it's allies.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: pavil

Yet Trump was responsible for that recovery right?

The market did respond favorably to his election......

Recovery? Are we better off after adjusting for inflation?

I'm just saying that a Decade of near Zero interest rates didn't get the GDP above 3% ever. Bush's economic record isn't any better.

Are American's overall better off since 2000? 17 Years of inflation should put as well above those levels alone.

2000 U.S. Median Income adjusted for inflation to 2016 income

Median household income in the United States was $42,148 in the year 2000.

Median household income rose to $56,516 in 2015

$42,148 in 2000 → $58,744.57 in 2016

Great Recovery Huh? Haven't even beaten inflation.


Back to topic.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Russian machiavellian approach is rather sad.
At this dangerous point it's unfortunate and immature.

a reply to: JBurns

Once you start, you have to be ready to finish.

Ideally, run him through.

I think there will be another launch with a live payload to test within 72 hours.

a reply to: xstealth

Based on the past history, this is nothing new, they assemble the rocket, and then launch it. They get test results and then adjust for the next one.

From what it looks like, they have a limited capacity to make alot of missiles and thus are still working out the engineering bugs in the systems. And to gather the supplies, so it looks like that they have about 14 more missiles to go and then have to get more supplies in to build, assemble, get the fuel and then set up to launch said missile.

If it has a viable payload, where there is an active weapon, they have to test it, and hope that it does not go off over any other country. If it hits say China or Russia, the US may not have to do anything, cause they will take care of it real quick.

Why don't they just leave NK alone?

Tell them they can do what they want, but if a missile hits somewhere important (a city etc..) then they will be swiftly wiped off the face of the earth. Kinda like GTA, do what you want until the cops bust 6 stars on you haha..

www.msn.com...
Russia accuses US of goading North Korea

This is correct.
We want them to attack and to attack first.
After the sanctions, we were supposed to open back up political channels and have not.
We are like the cop rattling his baton on the jail bars hoping to get a response.
We do exercises along their borders and fly US Bombers just off their coast hoping for a response.

originally posted by: JBurns
Marc Thiessen, on Fox News, wrote an opinion piece following NK's ICBM test. I concur with several key points he makes, and believe it would be an appropriate counter-demonstration of force.

Here is how Trump should respond: Take out the test site from which the North Koreans launched the missile toward Japan — just like he struck the military base in Syria from which the Assad regime had launched a chemical weapons attack on innocent civilians.

Then, as I recently suggested in the Washington Post, Trump should declare North Korea a ballistic missile “no-fly zone” and a nuclear weapons “no-test zone.” He should warn the North Koreans that any further attempts to launch a ballistic missile will be met with a targeted military strike either taking out the missile on the launch pad or blowing it up in the air using missile defense technology. And any further attempt to test a nuclear weapon will be met with a targeted strike taking out the test site and other related nuclear facilities.

So long as North Korea does not retaliate, Trump should assure Pyongyang that he will take no further military action against the regime. However, if North Korea does retaliate, then the United States reserves the right to, as Trump put it to the UN General Assembly, “totally destroy North Korea.”

The bottom line is that there is no negotiating with North Korea. There is no diplomatic solution that is possible with Kim Jong Un in office. And so long as Pyongyang can launch missiles and test nuclear devices with impunity, they hold the initiative and are running the show on the Korean Peninsula. Trump should take control of the situation away from Pyongyang by unilaterally ending their nuclear and ballistic missile testing program.

www.foxnews.com...

This would reinforce the threats and posturing over the last several months, and show NK we mean business. It is a de-escalatory strike, to prevent NK from engaging in a pre-emptive launch that will result in a major conflict. Worked in Syria.

North Korea has every right to self defense. Threatening them only justifies their nuclear program. Not only do they fear South Korea and the United States, historically, they have been invaded several times by China. The only wise course is to accept them as a nuclear power, and make it clear that every right comes with corresponding responsibilities. Gun owners have a duty to keep their weapons out of the hands of criminals, and only use them when necessary. The same goes for nations with nuclear weapons. Once we acknowledge DPRK's legitimate claims we can negotiate inspection regimes, etc.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: JBurns


Marc Thiessen should Slim Pickens his ass down to North Korea.

How about we let China take care of China's mess?

I agree. It would be less dangerous. The problem with Thiessan’s solution is that there is a good chance NK will retaliate with a very destructive artillery strike against the south.

Pressuring China with threats of sanctions against China or even sanctions sounds like a viable solution.

North Korea has every right to self defense. Threatening them only justifies their nuclear program. Not only do they fear South Korea and the United States, historically, they have been invaded several times by China.

Oh, poor poor NK. Many countries have been invaded, many countries are under threat - should they all get nukes as a deterrent? Just being near NK isn't "threatening" them. If that was the condition for which nukes were an acceptable defense every country on the planet would probably have them.

You act as if they are defenseless. Why do those in-the-know say it's a losing cause to start a war with NK? They are not defenseless. China nor the U.S. nor SK have any plans to invade NK.

Why people keep defending that sad country and their dictator family boggles the mind. It's as if they don't threaten other countries on a regular basis.. or are not involved in illicit dealings to make money.. or abuse their citizens.. or have nothing resembling a fair legal system.. the list goes on and on, but.. woe for poor sad mistreated NK!

a reply to: JBurns

Didn't he respond with a sternly-worded tweet already? What more do you want?

That's what he does. He sees something that gets him in a lather and he tweets in the morning about it. Then he tweets again about something else. Perhaps next time he will Tweet about Mr. Moore in Alabama, calling out the mall that banned him (Trump will say the ban is Sad!). Sean Hannity will call for a boycott of the mall. Bath and Body Works will get targeted by Trump's supporters because it's a tennat. There will be a demonstration where Trump supporters will squeeze sun-ripened-raspberry-scented soap from bottles of shower gel, try to light the puddles of liquid on fire, and then experience their own Sad! when they realize water doesn't burn.

Then one of the Trump supporters will slip on the shower gel. Richard Spencer will leap from the shadows and blame Obama. Milo Yannayannabooboo will take a break from his Sad! with Berkeley so he can deliver a monologue about radical Islam and snowflakes.

And so it goes...

a reply to: JBurns Reality check: Your ideas are bad for the environment, bad for world peace, and you shouldn't have any children until you learn patience, kindness, and long term consequences to your ideas and actions. This problem will be solved through hard work and due diligence of diplomatic actions. This Korean leader is the equivalent of the fat bully at school making all the children miserable. He needs a time out and professional spanking. If this does not work he should be expelled and home schooled in jail. People should not be allowed to damage the planet. I believe all nukes should be used on incoming asteroids and large metorites, or sent into the sun for removal.

a reply to: frugal

He is not the equivalent of a school bully, as the school bully doesn't have the power to actually take any lives. Diplomatic action has failed for 25 years, and led to the current situation. If a certain POTUS during the Korean war would've authorized his general staff to carry out a first strike then, we wouldn't have this catastrophe in the making now.

When someone that unstable gets access to dangerous weapons and threatens to use them, you don't "negotiate" with them, you don't allow them to get even more dangerous weapons. You starve them out until you've backed them into a corner, then throw every single military and intelligence asset at them you can. Stop only once KJU is killed/captured (first option is preferred, much cheaper that way), and seize each and every WMD from the country. NK has no bargaining chips, and game theory shows an attack now is better than an attack once their military capacity grows whatsoever.

NK and all communist/socialist countries have no future in the world. They are antiquated and multiply-failed ideologies, which universally results in war, genocide, oppression of their own citizens and total economic failure.

So no, diplomacy is not a real option at this point in the game. And once Tillerson is replaced by someone with half a brain that understand this fact, the sooner we can get to total war with NK. It will happen, regardless of these utopian diplomacy dreams, and it must happen sooner rather than later. Allowing him to get even one more WMD/missile/soldier in his army only increases the casualties we'll face on our side.

Expelled and jailed? You're joking right. You don't slap a tinpot tyrant on his hand - you kill them to prevent their convoluted machinations from ever harming another living being. My suggestion would be to send some low yield nuclear warheads on cruise missiles to his palace, and vaporize him out of existence. China (or US) would immediately move to capture and secure the nuclear weapons, while our air force/missiles could level their nuclear power installations setting them back several decades.

That is the sensible response. Not this utopian dream-like thinking that diplomacy ever works to avert war at such a late stage. Diplomacy is supposed to prevent things from getting to this point. But once they do (and they have), the suits need to step aside for the camouflage.

Bye-bye Tilly (And KJU, as a result)

a reply to: icanteven

Uh huh...

And what does anything in your unconscious rant have to do with the tinpot communist dictator in NK?

Besides, haven't you heard? There isn't actually any evidence Moore did anything illegal.

a reply to: fleabit


Because the bloodless reds in this country have to stick up for their fellow soulless totalitarian commies/socies around the world.

Because once third-world places like NK/Venuzuela collapse (which they are actively doing - both of them are on course for oblivion), the entire communist/socialist theory of government/economics will once again prove itself to be bull# and lies.

a reply to: JBurns We all volunteer to send you over there to poison him. Good Luck! Hint: dress up as Denis Rondham the basket ball player. That would slow them down for a while over there. Reread what you are writing. You sound like the Korean Leader yourself.