I am no longer walking on the path of Islam .

a reply to: Kapusta

Thank you for your kind response. The reason I started with my question regarding membership of something akin like Jw is that the Jw is a cult. Cult environments cause psychological damage, not easily undone, especially when you have been brought up in it. And can hamper your life for years to come.

one of the issues I had to contend with is that there is a difference between pretending to have all the answers and accepting that not all questions that a person can pose can be answered straight away.
It also brings me to the point of asking you what was it that made you go: wow, Islam must be it and what are the questions that are really at the bottom causing you to break and search for a different path. Please do not get me wrong here, I think your persistence in looking for your path is praiseworthy. Yet, it seems to me, those questions that cause non-answers are the things to start with.

And truth be told, once you tasted the goodies, you want more of it. And it may take all your life to rekindle with And even though it may be just a short moment in time, it seems worth it, yes?

When you know how it feels, how you interacted with it, then you also should know where it cannot be found and perhaps where you might find it. This brings me to the following question: when and how did you experience the goodies and what made it slip away from you in such a manner you cannot access it?

a reply to: ketsuko

A lot of people think that even seeking God at all will leave you feeling wanting. There are no God's handing out answers even though there are billions of humans who claim to "know" things. There is only you and the relationships you build with other people.

What would a god be for anyways? What would you expect a god to give you?

Surely you see that believers have no special answers to offer.

a reply to: DAVID64

Acute trigger-nomrtry

originally posted by: Yvhmer
a reply to: Kapusta

Thank you for your kind response. The reason I started with my question regarding membership of something akin like Jw is that the Jw is a cult. Cult environments cause psychological damage, not easily undone, especially when you have been brought up in it. And can hamper your life for years to come.

one of the issues I had to contend with is that there is a difference between pretending to have all the answers and accepting that not all questions that a person can pose can be answered straight away.
It also brings me to the point of asking you what was it that made you go: wow, Islam must be it and what are the questions that are really at the bottom causing you to break and search for a different path. Please do not get me wrong here, I think your persistence in looking for your path is praiseworthy. Yet, it seems to me, those questions that cause non-answers are the things to start with.

And truth be told, once you tasted the goodies, you want more of it. And it may take all your life to rekindle with And even though it may be just a short moment in time, it seems worth it, yes?

When you know how it feels, how you interacted with it, then you also should know where it cannot be found and perhaps where you might find it. This brings me to the following question: when and how did you experience the goodies and what made it slip away from you in such a manner you cannot access it?

All religions are cults. When you are on the outside looking in, you can see them all on equal footing. They are all made by men who claim to speak and communicate with a deity.

After all this time, not even one has managed to describe a way of life that appeals to everyone. I don't think there is a way to appeal to everyone, which is why you see this recent push for personalized religion or what most people call spirituality. I believe this is just more of the same nonsense that people crave , So that they feel meaningful in this vast space that we occupy. If only people were comfortable in their own minds, perhaps they wouldn't seek outside sources for comfort.

a reply to: Woodcarver

What would a god be for anyways? What would you expect a god to give you?

Shouldn't that be what are we for anyways? and what we could possibly give to God . Maybe its all about the starting position we take that causes us to seek further ,or not. It was easy when I was a atheist because I just wouldn't ask .

a reply to: Woodcarver

People seem to seek religious answers to complete themselves. This would imply that they do not feel whole.

I feel very deeply that this emptiness stems from a lack of meaningful personal relationships with other people. Or at least, some feeling they have which is difficult to express to others.

If all humans focused on their ability to understand those other humans around them, I think this would be far more satisfying than a search for some subjective definition of a deity that does not actually exist and does not have any answers.

We all know that there are answers to be found in the physical world. Everything else is subjective based on the cultures that we grew up in, and the beliefs of those who came before us. Why not focus on the things that we know we can find answers for. Nobody fights wars over competing translations of mathematical equations.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

What would a god be for anyways? What would you expect a god to give you?

Shouldn't that be what are we for anyways? and what we could possibly give to God . Maybe its all about the starting position we take that causes us to seek further ,or not. It was easy when I was a atheist because I just wouldn't ask .

If you were an atheist who didn't ask questions then you weren't very good atheist. Most people come to the atheist position because they were asking questions and that they found that answers lacked any evidence and were far too subjective to hold any truth.

Which would leave one to realize that out of all of the gods who have been claimed to exist, none of them stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. You yourself don't believe in any of the gods that others have prescribed except for the one that you agree with. OP's statements show that belief in any gods is fleeting, and subject to rejection based on new information being applied to those beliefs. What about everyone else's beliefs? Surely you don't think that they are all correct? And if they are not correct then yours is very probably not correct as well. To then stick to these ideas is more a fault of the human mind. A very common fault of believing your own biases and disregarding others.

Those who can believe in ideas that have no evidence to support them, can literally believe in anything. Making these beliefs meaningless.

a reply to: Kapusta

Very good. You’ve made the right move.

I would suggest waiting a while before picking a new religion. Give yourself the time to learn how to think as opposed to what to think.

a reply to: Woodcarver

If you were an atheist who didn't ask questions then you weren't very good atheist. Most people come to the atheist position because they were asking questions and that they found that answers lacked any evidence and were far too subjective to hold any truth. Which would leave one to realize that out of all of the gods who have been claimed to exist, none of them stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. You yourself don't believe in any of the gods that others have prescribed except for the one that you agree with. What about everyone else's beliefs? Surely you don't think that they are all correct? And if they are not correct then yours is very probably not correct as well. To then stick to these ideas is more a fault of the human mind. A very common fault of believing your own biases and disregarding others.

I didn't say I didn't ask questions but I sure didn't ask questions that might lead me to a answer I was uncomfortable with . Like I said if you start with the wrong questions then finding the answers may be impossible .

You yourself don't believe in any of the gods that others have prescribed except for the one that you agree with.

Here you go attributing to me what I don't believe when that statement is actually false . You did that in the last exchange we had and I called you out on it but you fled from the responsibility to prove your point with the text you used .Having a genuine conversation or debate with someone who is disingenuous is not fruitful at all . Besides if you want to construct a straw man argument and tear it down ,you are only fooling yourself and maybe a few others .

You see I guess my understanding of a God and other gods is something I took the time to look into and try to understand .You dismiss any and all gods in order to maintain your atheism . But that's ok because I know that not all people can exercise faith and to exercise it requires you to use it .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

If you were an atheist who didn't ask questions then you weren't very good atheist. Most people come to the atheist position because they were asking questions and that they found that answers lacked any evidence and were far too subjective to hold any truth. Which would leave one to realize that out of all of the gods who have been claimed to exist, none of them stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. You yourself don't believe in any of the gods that others have prescribed except for the one that you agree with. What about everyone else's beliefs? Surely you don't think that they are all correct? And if they are not correct then yours is very probably not correct as well. To then stick to these ideas is more a fault of the human mind. A very common fault of believing your own biases and disregarding others.

I didn't say I didn't ask questions but I sure didn't ask questions that might lead me to a answer I was uncomfortable with . Like I said if you start with the wrong questions then finding the answers may be impossible .

You yourself don't believe in any of the gods that others have prescribed except for the one that you agree with.

Here you go attributing to me what I don't believe when that statement is actually false . You did that in the last exchange we had and I called you out on it but you fled from the responsibility to prove your point with the text you used .Having a genuine conversation or debate with someone who is disingenuous is not fruitful at all . Besides if you want to construct a straw man argument and tear it down ,you are only fooling yourself and maybe a few others .

You see I guess my understanding of a God and other gods is something I took the time to look into and try to understand .You dismiss any and all gods in order to maintain your atheism . But that's ok because I know that not all people can exercise faith and to exercise it requires you to use it .

I think it's pretty fair to say that my assumption is correct. Do you believe in Ganesh? Do you believe in Thor, Oden, Loki? Do you believe in Marduk?

The big question is whether faith is a good reason to believe in a thing? I cannot think of anything else that I would use faith to describe the reason why I believe in it? It is not even a reason to believe in it, it is just a statement that you do believe in it. It is not a why.


Why have faith in a thing for no good reason or evidence?

Faith is always the answer when there is no good reason to believe in a thing. So why have faith and I think there's no good reason to believe in?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I think it's pretty fair to say that my assumption is correct. Do you believe in Ganesh? Do you believe in Thor, Oden, Loki? Do you believe in Marduk?

Yes I do believe in them which means you are incorrect in your assumptions that I don't .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

I think it's pretty fair to say that my assumption is correct. Do you believe in Ganesh? Do you believe in Thor, Oden, Loki? Do you believe in Marduk?

Yes I do believe in them which means you are incorrect in your assumptions that I don't .

To what extent do you believe them? It seems hard to hold so many competing answers as truth?

a reply to: Kapusta



Religion = Divide

a reply to: Woodcarver

Why have faith in a thing for no good reason or evidence?

Consider the study into quantum mechanics and how even Einstein considered it spooky . There is a reason he thought that but there is a reason why others wanted to find out more about it and ask the correct questions to find the answers even if it was going to get spooky . They had a faith that finding the answers would change their faith but it was the truth of the matter they wanted .

All organized religion falls apart under critical thought.

"One needs faith" is simply a substitute for a lack of substance and an inability to answer a question.

a reply to: Woodcarver

To what extent do you believe them?

Its a big subject especially if you pursue it to the extent it can be understood . Its a subject that one realization will only lead to another question or realization . Mike Heisers lectures on the unseen realm and reversing Hermon can be a bit advanced but it also stars with the simple concepts of the god's .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

Why have faith in a thing for no good reason or evidence?

Consider the study into quantum mechanics and how even Einstein considered it spooky . There is a reason he thought that but there is a reason why others wanted to find out more about it and ask the correct questions to find the answers even if it was going to get spooky . They had a faith that finding the answers would change their faith but it was the truth of the matter they wanted .

Lofl. You brought up QM in a discussion about faith in deities. Would you mind explaining how one has anything to do with the other?

Einstein didn't understand quantum mechanics. Why are you using his explanation as justification?

originally posted by: MysticPearl
All organized religion falls apart under critical thought.

"One needs faith" is simply a substitute for a lack of substance and an inability to answer a question.

As does atheism under critical thought.
The fact that we even exist, without any creation to spur on evolution, has no logical reasoning behind it.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: MysticPearl
All organized religion falls apart under critical thought.

"One needs faith" is simply a substitute for a lack of substance and an inability to answer a question.

As does atheism under critical thought.
The fact that we even exist, without any creation to spur on evolution, has no logical reasoning behind it.

Actually it's quite the opposite. All biology on this planet has been shown to follow the same natural chemical reactions. To then propose that a deity is needed to start this would then need it's own set of evidence. Which has up to this point not been forthcoming.

As I said before any beliefs that you hold that have no evidence to support them are meaningless, because anybody can believe anything if they don't need a reason to believe it. Atheism is the default position. Just like your lack of belief in Dragons, gnomes, and fairies. You except these as fictional constructions, because they lack any evidence of their existence outside of fictional narratives. All gods are exactly the same.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Einstein didn't understand quantum mechanics. Why are you using his explanation as justification?

I think he understood it as best he could of at the time . He understood that the speed of light has a limit and that if Quantum mechanics were true then his equations were in question because of the spooky nature at a distance . He put his faith in his work while others put their faith in other observations that would seem to contradict Einstein . As it turns out they can both be true despite the seemingly contradictions .