Scientist Finds UK Water Companies use 'Magic' to Find Leaks

To chime in, I've both seen and used the bent rod method to find buried metallic objects (like water pipes). It is real and does work, the rods will cross directly above the object.

Once saw a tech college instructor silence an entire room. He got the rods to cross over metal in the floor and was first laughed at as a parlor trick. He then invited students to come forward and try, it worked for many of them too.

Bottom line is this isn't just some crazy old folklore. Would love too see a conclusive explanation for it!

I work for a large utility company in the U.S. We use 2 welding rods to locate underground utilities. We use this method at least 2-3 times daily.The rods can pick up water lines,gas,sewer,power,cable.If there is a pipe in the ground the rods will pick it up.The underground lines do not have to have water or sewage etc in them for the rods to work.I have been using this method for 20+ years to locate pipes and when we dig up the pipe to work on it my marks are usually within a foot of where I marked the pipe.The rods do not work for everyone that I work with.Also when we are working in a very rocky area the rods give false readings,they will cross when there is no pipe there.I have been told by old timers that the rods pick up energy running through the pipe even if there is nothing in them and when in rocky areas the rods are crossing cause there is a seam in the rock underground.

Lay a garden hose on the ground with nothing in it and walk over it with the rods and they will cross.

As far as finding gold with these rods I have no clue..I seen miners do it on TV but in my experience I think they are picking up seams in the bedrock.Just my 2 cents.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Also thought I would add when we are looking for a valve box in the road (the little round box's sometimes painted blue or yellow that you see in the roadway) that has been paved over with blacktop or concrete,we hold a compass close to the ground and walk around where we think it is and when the compass spins that locates the valve box...Have no clue how that works

a reply to: snowspirit

I've found a water pipeline 20m underground using the witching technique. Something I couldn't find using a brand new 10 thousand dollar locating device because it couldn't penetrate that deep into the ground.
I told the hydrovac truck to start digging 2 days later they found it.

ETA: I used bent pin flags.

a reply to: gortex

Water divination or "Dowsing" as it is sometimes called is not really magic per-say, probably something to do with magnetics really and/or some peoples ability to sense the change in magnetic fields.

Keep in mind that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

a reply to: andy06shake

I'm afraid you're wrong. It very much is magic. The Catholic Church allowed it's members to witch wells, while out in the field, from about 1800AD. But they don't want you to Map Dowse sites, over a map. It's good advice, as any Map Dowse is a kissing cousin to a Ouji Board. You do it solo, and use a map instead of the infamous game's board, but it's still an answer board, of sorts.
I fudge a little, and try to only map dowse something or someplace where I've already been to. With an online acquaintance, living Down Under, in Australia, together we map dowsed the flight of the hijacked Malaysia MH 370. On my end, I used downloaded photos of the Flight Crew and the big map circle which showed the satellite's limited vision. "See something, say something". Well people did just that, and the authorities blew them all off, spending tens of millions of dollars in fruitless searching. I followed the plane into the Himalayas, in the Northernmost province of India. My Aussie online friend, followed this all the way down the West Coast of India, out over the Maldives, and finally, to a watery grave, in the British Protectorate Waters, but well away from Diego Garcia.

The kicker is that this airliner did land in one piece, in India, was refueled, and then flew, low and slow, on it's second leg flight. Our guess is that the hijackers blew out some of the cabin windows, and compromised the pressurized cabin, coming in from Kualu Lumpur, Malaysia. This probably meant that all the passengers were D.O.A. in India, and that freaked out the Indian Air Force, to the point that they covered this crime up, by literally, flying off into the Sunset.

Back in 2012, I did fly round trip from Atlanta, to Jo'berg, RSA, for a Safari. So I got my fill of these Boeing Triple Seven E.R.'s. M H 370 was a different bird, but I felt a sympathetic relationship to those doomed passengers. BTW, the Captain was a righteous dude, who checked out South of Bangladesh. This flight path shows up nicely if you stretch a string over a decent sized Earth Globe, from Kualu Lumpur to Lahore, Pakistan. That was their destination, but they ran short of fuel and had to divert into Northern India. My end of this dowse ended there, and I thought they ditched it into a snow bank, softly enough, to let the Rolls Royce ACARS to keep pinging London, for a couple of hours past their extreme range. If they had ditched into Salt Water, that would have shorted out the ACARS, immediately. So the dowse is accurate, you just have to use a high tech string, stretched over a Globe, to see it. Those ACAR's pings, prove that it made a relatively soft landing, and didn't short out everything in Salt Water. Someone or someones, on the ground didn't realize that they had to get those ACAR's turned completely off.

Very slowly, with wreckage starting to wash up near Africa, this will eventually come out. And it may still start a war, between India, and either Pakistan, or China, take your pick. Some terrorists were set to crash into a major shrine near Lahore, PK. and failed to get there. My Aussie online friend, and I were on top of this within the first three days. You better believe that Russia, and our C.I.A. have cadres of Dowsers, much more competent than the two of us. The Russians use their very best dowsers to track our Missile Subs, around the world's oceans. These guys are so pampered that they show up at dowsing conventions in Western Europe. And in a convention hall, full of "witches", cover stories, ain't gonna cut it.

So, yes, dowsing, and simple water well witching, are very much in use. And yes, this is all magic. The naysayers are useful in keeping all of this magic on the down low. Some dowsers, and even non-dowsers, can block these searches, so keeping the ignorant, ignorant, has a special place in the greater scheme of things, pertaining to this "Magical Art".

originally posted by: carpooler
a reply to: andy06shake
I'm afraid you're wrong. It very much is magic.

I would invoke Clarke's 3'rd law here: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic..
However, in this case, I would simply apply it to earth science that we do not yet understand.

You know, many animals can instinctively sense Earth's magnetic field. Many birds and whales that migrate long distances are believed to use the magnetic fields for navigation.

So, perhaps it's really not so far-fetched to think that some people can sense disturbances in the Earth's magnetic field.

a reply to: gortex

I do it with welding rods bent over. My dad showed me. And it works.

Many old techniques still work and are used today...

Like worm calling.

a reply to: carpooler

Sounds more like remote viewing than your atypical water dowsing, hijacked Malaysia MH 370 stuff that is.

Chances are dowsing for water has more to do with our Earths ley lines and/or her geomagnetic makeup and how it reacts to the flow of water.

What that has to do with Ouija boards is beyond me. Don't see the similarities myself, one being steeped in astrology the other having actual "physical" applications.

a reply to: andy06shake

How do you water witch a well in a high wind?? You make or use a simple map, and switch, ( pardon the pun ), from angle rods to a pendulum. It also helps to come inside out of the wind. But someone good can pendulum dowse over a map, half ways around the Globe. But either standing in a grassy field, or pendulum dowsing inside a house, you can witch the very same water well.

This is an art, not a science. I was hoping that some survivors would come out of a remote snowbank, and give the solution to M H 370's demise. My Aussie online friend squashed that idea, with the second flight leg. My personal idea is that dowsing starts fading our minds away to outside of our time continuum.

Before I retired in 2010, I put down $10, each, on three squares on a Super Bowl blind pool card, at work. The side #'s hadn't been drawn for this pool yet. I did this with a pendulum, and avoided the squares already taken. I didn't win one thin dime, but looking back at the winners, by quarters, I saw that both opposing coaches had shaved points, NFL style, by not taking chip shots at two, fall off the log, field goals. Adding in three points, for each team, when they were available, by grace of the "Football gods", showed me winning three, of the four quarters, worth of scores, for that game. So their tit for tat, point shaving, cost me everything. Adding in the Half Time win, would have given me over $300.

Kentucky Derbies are a little different. I got the same places as what were being touted, online, just before the races. So no winners after the race, when it really counted. My parting shot is that you can dowse innocuously, by using a very fine Pocket Watch movement, say a 21 jewels job, by putting your watch into a silk pocket square, hanky, in the palm of your hand. Going over a target, like moving water in a buried pipe, might "stall out", the satellite second hand, for an instant. I picked up a B.W.Raymond 21 jewel movement, made in 1937, in a non-de-script Elgin, lever set, Watch case, for this project. I felt it was important to keep the blue steel hair spring, and then de-magnetize this movement, as needed. It also beats windy days, when you must walk through a field.

Otherwise you need to field, heavier, and heavier, angle rods. Last, but not least, I put black electricians tape at the Center of Gravity, on a 4 foot long, heavy steel pry bar, and it would dip it's nose, going over a target. So the weight of the device, doesn't sem to make much difference, either.

I always got a kick out of the old Eighteenth Century illustration, of an astral hand, coming up out of the ground to grab a dowser's twig, and pull it down into the Earth. But I think it shows, that for Centuries, there has been a feeling that water witching begets some kind of Standing Wave Phenomenon, acting outside of our time.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

That's probably about right.

I can do it, but I don't even pretend to understand how.

a reply to: andy06shake
Andy; you're not into dowsing, so you don't know the ley of the lands. Even the Ying Yang, Chinese symbol is the heart of an answer board, like our Ouja Boards. The full Ying, Yang, Monte, is a pattern of lines radiating from that common symbol.

Like I said earlier, I try not to dowse something where I haven't already walked or paid my dues. IN the Triple Seven E.R., my Atlanta to Jo'berg flight is the second longest flight, and the longest, which goes to Northern Australia, is only about 20 minutes longer. Our landfall was the Skeleton Coast, and the other longer flight trends more over the Sahara. I called this out, as some kind of sympathetic magic, rather than remote viewing.

Maj. David Morehouse is quite the dowser as well, as being a Remote Viewer. But their "Stargate" program got off into the weeds, using Ouja boards, and off beat divination tools. Two people can dowse using four small forked sticks, interlocked with each others', and one person can use a pendulum over a Ouja Board, but I'd rather just dowse over a photograph. This is how I got my half of the M H 370 flight path. I downloaded and printed out 4 x 6 photos, off of online news feeds.

Mr. Verne Cameron, now deceased, dowsed a map for all of our missile subs on one date. Then he gave his map to an Adm., but never heard back. Years later, he applied for a U.S. Passport to go and dowse some minerals in South Africa. They turned him down, calling him a threat to U.S. Nat'l Security??? Well, as usually is the case, the Russkies are waaay ahead of us, in doing this heavy duty dowsing.

a reply to: carpooler

I'm not doing a lot of things, that does not mean i cannot attempt to understand how things work.

The Ying Yang aspect of Ouja Boards seems to simply provide a boolean answer system(Yes/No).

Just keep in mind that it's only magic until science provides a more definitive explanation as to whats really going on.

As to the remote viewing aspect of your post, well it's certainly an interesting field of study.

What do remote viewers think about there abilities?

Is there not someway they can somehow derive or define how they are accomplishing the alleged act of information gathering from such distance without resorting to magical terminology?

Somehow accessing our shared group consciousness would be my best guess as to how remote viewing functions but there is no actual proof to support a Human group consciousness any more than there is magic just yet.

a reply to: andy06shake

Andy, if you can score the non fictional book by Maj. David Morehouse, "Psychic Warrior", I think you can see what worked, and where they went off into the weeds. If Morehouse & Co. dowsed our missile subs' locations on a given day, he never wrote about it. But it's possible that Elizabeth Sulivan, of Wales, gave me a heads up, beyond anything Project Stargate, was aware of. Dowsers, including Elizabeth, don't appreciate another "artist", looking over their shoulders. I promised not to do anything like this, and I"m sure that she could, and did, check me out.

a reply to: carpooler

I watched "Men Who Stare at Goats" does that count?

As to remote viewing and the likes, i imagine if indeed credible it has more to do with Humanity sharing some kind of group consciousness, that may allow us to peruse of even influence the reality we think we experience. Said group consciousness residing within the foam of the quantum realm. Hence our inability to actually detect and/or measure the phenomenon in any kind of meaningful manner(as of yet) from our very maco sized universe.

I don't know who Elizabeth Sulivan is, but what information did you glean that Project Stargate was not aware of?

originally posted by: rickymouse
The water has to be moving or charged for metal dousing rods to work, they will not work on a bottle of water.

A lot of dowsers were asked what they could dowse for, and moving water seemed to be a very common answer, so a test was set up to see if they could detect moving water.

The Kassel Dowsing Test: Part 1

about 100 dowsers contacted the GWUP. In the following months, we tried to gain a clear impression of what kind of abilities were being claimed by means of a series of letters and a questionnaire. It turned out that a majority of prospective dowsers claimed the ability to locate running water in pipes. We therefore decided in the spring of 1990 to base the dowsing experiments primarily on this form of test. In addition, some dowsers indicated their ability to sense different kinds of substances (base metals, precious metals, coal, oil, magnets, etc.). This prompted the development of a second class of tests which we could offer the participants as an alternative or an addition.

These were the hypotheses developed for testing, which were more modest than the dowsers own claims of their own abilities:

we derived the following hypotheses to be tested:

(a) Dowsers can in at least 83% of all cases tell whether water is running inside a plastic pipe or not, whereas the expected chance success rate for this is 50%.

(b) Dowsers can in at least 80% of all cases tell in which of 10 boxes a previously agreed-on item is located, whereas the expected chance success rate for this is 10%.

The results demanded were below the abilities claimed by the dowsers. They themselves claimed a success rate of at least 90% or, usually, 100%. Based on the hypotheses, two outcomes were possible:

1. The dowsers would produce the required results. This would indicate the possible reality of the dowsing effect.

2. The dowsers would not produce the required results. If the results of the group of dowsers were distributed as would be expected according to chance, that would confirm the chance hypothesis. But if the distribution were to differ significantly from the chance expectation, this could serve as a starting point for new experiments using new hypotheses.

The people conducting the test wanted to make sure the dowsers felt it was a fair test of their abilities so there was lots of communication:

During the whole project, particular attention was paid to informing and involving the participants. The test could be meaningful and significant only if the participants shared our opinion that the test could lead to a definitive statement about their claimed abilities. To ensure equal treatment of all participants, we distributed all information in writing and formalized the further treatment before and after the actual tests according to the following pattern: After the official greeting by the GWUP and James Randi, each participant was supplied with extensive written information on the design of the test. Contained in it was a questionnaire we had developed. In it, all participants confirmed that at least one of the aforementioned test formats was suitable for testing their abilities. All participants also declared that they had been given sufficient information about the tests both in writing and verbally.

The dowsers apparently agreed the tests were a fair test of their abilities, since they signed these before and after the test:

Declarations by the Dowsers Before and After the Tests

DECLARATION

I DECLARE THAT I HAVE BEEN GIVEN SUFFICIENT INFORMATION ABOUT THE TESTS BY THE GWUP AND BY JAMES RANDI BOTH VERBALLY AND IN WRITING. IN PRE-TRIAL RUNS, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADJUST MYSELF TO THE CONDITIONS, AND I FEEL PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHICALLY ABLE TO SUCCEED IN THE TEST UNDER THE GIVEN CIRCUMSTANCES.

DECLARATION

I DECLARE THAT THE TESTS WERE CONDUCTED IMPECCABLY. THE TEST CONDITIONS AND THE SCHEDULE HAVE IN NO WAY IMPEDED ME DURING THE TESTS.

So the tests were conducted and now we have some tests on dowsing to add to the scientific test record. But it can only address the claims tested with the dowsers tested, and thus dowsing claims can continue forever no matter how much science is done, like they tested the wrong dowsers, etc. which is pretty much how people in this thread seem to dismiss the science.

The Kassel Dowsing Test: Part 2

Someone can always claim that we tested the wrong dowsers, used the wrong hypotheses, or expected too strong an effect.

The really sad part is that this test was extensively filmed and documented and was planned to be shown on television, but because the results weren't what they were expecting, they never showed it which is probably why more people haven't heard of this test.

The Hessische Rundfunk TV network, who paid for the expenses of setting up the dowsing tests, had covered the proceedings assiduously. Their crews were unobtrusively everywhere, taping every aspect of the tests. Such involvement of personnel and equipment, aside from the outlay of expenses for the basic water delivery system and security procedures, is quite expensive. They had planned to prepare a TV special, and GWUP had granted them this right in return for their participation. Crews and executives from the network were as eager as all of us to see the final results, but as it became evident that the dowsers had failed spectacularly, interest faded quickly. Crews packed away their equipment, scheduled post-results interviews were canceled, and the TV special never took place. It was a case of a "non-story" to Hessische Rundfunk, though if the dowsers had been successful, we expect it would have been a celebration of rare dimensions.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I didn't have a chance to read the whole article. I do know that running water in metal pipes, both copper or Iron can be detected by the people I know. I would not think a plastic pipe could be detected, it is an insulator and absorbs signal. They cannot detect gas lines with the testers unless they run a wire on side of them. Actually natural gas is moving or sharing ions with moving gas. The water actually does not have to move, it just has to share ions with moving water. So they can detect a pipe going to a house even though nobody in the house is using the water at the time, but in the mains it is moving.

I have seen people continually find water. I mentioned in one of my posts that the ground cannot be freshly moved, it has to be settled and polarized. From reading scientific information on how metal detectors work to farther levels, over a foot or so, the ground has to be undisturbed for a long time to get better metal detector readings. They identify the special electromagnetic signature of the metal. The people finding water pipes by dousing may actually be finding the combination of the metal pipe charged by ions in the water.

When I saw the stick break in half on the third branch of the y branch my uncle used, I became a believer. I examined the break and there is no way that anyone could have done that using the two other branches, I was looking right at the branch, it bent in a way that he could never have done the way he was holding it unless some other energy or magnetic field was effecting it.

Take a Y branch off a tree, each Y side about sixteen inches long. Look at this Y....Hold the two top branches of it and tell me how by holding those two branches you can make the lower section snap right in half half way between the connector and the end. It would be impossible unless some force was pulling that end down and you were trying to hold it up. I saw this first person. I cannot even make any of the types of dousing work, but I have witnessed people doing it successfully. Strangely, everyone I saw successfully doing this was pretty fat. But they may have been skinny and able to do it too. The people were older and out of shape.

I have seen some things that goes against laws of physics in my life, To me that means there is something wrong with those laws or maybe people who think they know how to use them are spewing crap. Water can run up hill, that has been verified already under special conditions by some researchers. Yet most people would say it can't.

originally posted by: rickymouse
I do know that running water in metal pipes, both copper or Iron can be detected by the people I know. I would not think a plastic pipe could be detected, it is an insulator and absorbs signal.

The thing is, any or all of the dowsers could have objected to the plastic pipe and said that was not a fair test of their abilities, yet they all agreed that the experiment as designed was a fair test of their abilities, so none of them had any objection to the plastic pipe.

So it would have been my hope that dowsers know their abilities and they would have insisted on the use of metal pipes if those are the only type they could find moving water in. That didn't happen.

Also did you know that if you put an electromagnetic transmitter like a radio transmitter inside a plastic pipe, the plastic does not insulate the signal, the signal can pass right through the plastic pipe, but it cannot pass through the metal pipe, which "insulates" or isolates electromagnetic radiation inside the pipe from going outside the pipe and vice-versa.

See "Faraday Cage".