Why the Dossier may be the most serious political scandal the US has ever seen.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: DBCowboy
So my tax dollars were used to pay for oppositional research in a presidential campaign.

SMH

...and they were paid directly to a competing campaign committee.
How is this NOT a Federal agency taking sides and helping to finance one candidate in an election?

Again, I dont see the evidence that the dnc was reimbursed.

Steele was though.

So you tax dollars went from Obamas FBI to a person being paid by the DNC to collude with Russia to get dirt on Trump.

Imagine the liberal outrage if Trumps FBI starts paying someone like, I dont know, Roger Stone to get dirt on the democrats.

There would be blood in the street.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: DBCowboy
So my tax dollars were used to pay for oppositional research in a presidential campaign.

SMH

...and they were paid directly to a competing campaign committee.
How is this NOT a Federal agency taking sides and helping to finance one candidate in an election?

Obama used the IRS to punish anyone who didn't think like him, why not use the FBI as well?

That is actually false the IRS targeted groups with political sounding names applying for tax exempt status on both sides.

a reply to: Pyle

Delusional.

I swear some people really want to live in a police state.

a reply to: Pyle

List em.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle
a reply to: Grambler

Yes? I dont remember Obama, Clinton or any GOP member using the Dossier to go after their political rivals. In fact it wasnt even talked about by the MSM until months after.

If it was used in part to get Fisa warrants, then they did use it to go after their rivals.

Are police not allowed to use anonymous sources or tips when investigating?

The FBI should not use and apparently pay for a foreign agent that is being paid by one candidate to get opposition research from russian agents to get Fisa warrants against the candidates opponent.

I cant believe people are downplaying this.

Maybe people (like you) are over hyping the story and are confused why others are not buying into it?

The FBI pays informants. It is what they do as an incentive for people to bring them information. Steele brought the information to the FBI. McCain brought it to the FBI too later when he found out about it.

The way you downplay this is incredible. Steele was in effect a paid agent for the DNC.

He was getting info from Russian agents.

In other words, the DNC was colluding with Russia, in an attempt to prove russian collusion.

Then the Obama admin may have taken that info Steele who was a dnc operative because he was paid by them, paid steele for the info, and the used it to to get a warrant spy on his political opponents.

Again, If trump hire someone to collude with russia to get dirt on democrats,. and then uses that paid for info to get fisa warrants against democrats, you will think it is the biggest scandal in the world.

But when its against Trump, and from the dems and Obama, its no big deal.

Why do you not mention that this was originally commissioned by the GOP?

Why do you always fail to bring up that it was Fusion GPS that hired Steele not the GOP and not the DNC? Why are you so dead set that the FBI only got information from the dossier when we have statements that say they interdependently verified things in it?

I think you agenda is pretty damn clear. Something big from the dossier is about to hit big and the white house was given the heads up and now damage control is being pushed by all the right-wing sources.

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle
a reply to: Grambler

Yes? I dont remember Obama, Clinton or any GOP member using the Dossier to go after their political rivals. In fact it wasnt even talked about by the MSM until months after.

If it was used in part to get Fisa warrants, then they did use it to go after their rivals.

Are police not allowed to use anonymous sources or tips when investigating?

The FBI should not use and apparently pay for a foreign agent that is being paid by one candidate to get opposition research from russian agents to get Fisa warrants against the candidates opponent.

I cant believe people are downplaying this.

Maybe people (like you) are over hyping the story and are confused why others are not buying into it?

The FBI pays informants. It is what they do as an incentive for people to bring them information. Steele brought the information to the FBI. McCain brought it to the FBI too later when he found out about it.

The way you downplay this is incredible. Steele was in effect a paid agent for the DNC.

He was getting info from Russian agents.

In other words, the DNC was colluding with Russia, in an attempt to prove russian collusion.

Then the Obama admin may have taken that info Steele who was a dnc operative because he was paid by them, paid steele for the info, and the used it to to get a warrant spy on his political opponents.

Again, If trump hire someone to collude with russia to get dirt on democrats,. and then uses that paid for info to get fisa warrants against democrats, you will think it is the biggest scandal in the world.

But when its against Trump, and from the dems and Obama, its no big deal.

Why do you not mention that this was originally commissioned by the GOP?

Why do you always fail to bring up that it was Fusion GPS that hired Steele not the GOP and not the DNC? Why are you so dead set that the FBI only got information from the dossier when we have statements that say they interdependently verified things in it?

I think you agenda is pretty damn clear. Something big from the dossier is about to hit big and the white house was given the heads up and now damage control is being pushed by all the right-wing sources.

For about the 50th time on this thread, yes, the Republicans that financed this were also against Trump, and changes nothing.

Also, the timeline shows steele wasn't hired until the dems started paying, hence the dems were paying for this collusion.

No the fact that they used a second party intermediary does not dissolve them of anything.

They paid someone to collude with russia to get dirt on Trump.

Then they lied for a year about paying for it.

And now we know the fbi was paying that democratic employee to dig up dirt on Trump.

But you go ahead and ignore it, because you just KNOW that Trump is about to get his.

Any corruption is ok as long as its from your team, right?

a reply to: Pyle

So it's totally cool when the president uses that informant for campaign oppositional research?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

The dossier may have been used, but I find it unlikely that it would have been used on it's own to get a warrant.

If it was used at all its outrageous.

But again, the fact that the FBI has today said they will finaally comply with the congressional subpoenas may mean we will have answers soon.

Unless some of what it contained was verifiable and true.

a reply to: ketsuko

Where did Obama or ANYONE else for that matter use the information during the election to effect the election? Hell the public didnt know about it until after the election. The media refused to release it until it became known that it was briefed to Obama and Trump in January. If I remember my timelines correctly the FISA warrants were only issued after the persons of interest were off the campaign.

a reply to: Grambler

Explain a couple things to me if you don't mind.

1. Hilary was paying Fusion GPS for opposition research which is totally legal. Now, if Fusion GPS decided to look for intel from Steele, is that not allowed??? Also, do we have evidence that Hilary knew about Fusion GPS doing it??? Or was she just paying them for whatever they do as opposition research and they took it upon themselves to use Steele??

2. Once they had the info from Steele, if they believed it was accurate, why shouldn't it be used as evidence for a warrant??? Even if only parts of it were true, Steele was a high level agent which should have good intel. Plus didn't he even admit that he couldn't verify the accuracy of all of it anyway??? Should they have just ignored the whole thing or first verified what was good and what wasn't?? Is it just using possibly bad intel to get warrants that was illegal??? Or at what point did their use of that intel become illegal on their part??? Also, who's accountable for it, Fusion GPS, Steele, Hilary, or the Obama Admin??

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Pyle

So it's totally cool when the president uses that informant for campaign oppositional research?

Foreign informants used to influence the outcome of an election.

Collusion. . . . .

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Pyle

So it's totally cool when the president uses that informant for campaign oppositional research?

Foreign informants used to influence the outcome of an election.

Collusion. . . . .

God was looking out for America. Now it's time for the FAILED screw-ups to pay.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

The dossier may have been used, but I find it unlikely that it would have been used on it's own to get a warrant.

If it was used at all its outrageous.

But again, the fact that the FBI has today said they will finaally comply with the congressional subpoenas may mean we will have answers soon.

Unless some of what it contained was verifiable and true.

No that is irrelevant.

First, we absolutely know that some of the dossier is a lie. So what, you are ok using it for fisa warrants as long as a few things in it were right?

Absurd as I have pointed out over and over.

I dont think its a good precedent to allow a sitting presidents party to pay foreign agents to collude with supposed rival countries, then use tax money to fund that opposition research, and then use that info to get warrants to spy on their political opponents and hope some of it is true when we know for a fact that some of it is false.

I am sorry you think that is a good idea.

I hope it doesnt take Trump doing just that for you to realize how bad of an idea that is.

a reply to: Grambler

If Fusion GPS violated campaign laws they should be held accountable.

And now we know the fbi was paying that democratic employee to dig up dirt on Trump.

Thats a damn big strech there. The GOP/DNC paid Fusion GPS. Fusion GPS subcontracted out to Steele. How is Steele a democratic employee?

They paid someone to collude with russia to get dirt on Trump.

Well at least we know why you are posted this so hard. You are desperately trying to take the heat off of Trump by saying "SEE THE DNC DID IT TOO!" Tell me how do you feel about Trump Jr. meeting with a russian to talk about "adoptions" (or more actually the Magnitsky Act) in order to get dirt on Clinton form the Russian Government?

originally posted by: Pyle
a reply to: ketsuko

Where did Obama or ANYONE else for that matter use the information during the election to effect the election? Hell the public didnt know about it until after the election. The media refused to release it until it became known that it was briefed to Obama and Trump in January. If I remember my timelines correctly the FISA warrants were only issued after the persons of interest were off the campaign.

Again with this lie.

Mother jones was reporting on this on Oct. 31.

Main stream media people, that were rabidly anti trump, were in contact with steele about this for months before the election.

a reply to: Pyle

Straight up, do you think the DNC or Hillary or the FBI did anything illegal?

Simple question.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Pyle

So it's totally cool when the president uses that informant for campaign oppositional research?

Foreign informants used to influence the outcome of an election.

Collusion. . . . .

God was looking out for America. Now it's time for the FAILED screw-ups to pay.

Its going to be a long battle to get Trump out but his screw-ups are finally starting to hurt the GOP congress members so things might be about accelerate. Especially if they can ram through their tax plan which seems to be the big linchpin for them supporting him.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Pyle

Straight up, do you think the DNC or Hillary or the FBI did anything illegal?

Simple question.

From available evidence no I dont think the DNC,Hilliary,Obama,the GOP, or the FBI did anything illegal in this case.

Fusion GPS most likely violated some law when getting info from Steele but I am not sure since they are a private company and not political group. It would be harder to pin campaign laws on them.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Grambler

Explain a couple things to me if you don't mind.

1. Hilary was paying Fusion GPS for opposition research which is totally legal. Now, if Fusion GPS decided to look for intel from Steele, is that not allowed??? Also, do we have evidence that Hilary knew about Fusion GPS doing it??? Or was she just paying them for whatever they do as opposition research and they took it upon themselves to use Steele??

First, it was collusion with Russia, period. Going through a third person does not absolve the dnc of this. If russian collusion is bad and treasonous as was screamed by many people with the don jr. situation, then this certainly meets that criteria.

Yes oppo research is allowed. The problem is when that oppo ends up resulting in Russian collusion which is what the entire accusation about Trumps team is about, the FBI using tax money to pay for some of that oppo research, and then using this research paid for by your own political party to get warrants to spy on your opponent is outrageous.

So rather or niot Hillary knew, the Obama admin knew where this came from, and they still paid for it and possibly used it for warrants to spy on opponents.

As far as Hillary, I can not prove she knew. But the law says you have to know and accurately report on what you are spending money on, and it looks like they spent 9 million dollars for this. In addition, ignorance is not an excuse.

But even if it was, then we she see Hillary out today condemning whoever did spend this money, and demanding Fusion GPS disclose their records of who they dealt with. We are not seeing that.

2. Once they had the info from Steele, if they believed it was accurate, why shouldn't it be used as evidence for a warrant??? Even if only parts of it were true, Steele was a high level agent which should have good intel. Plus didn't he even admit that he couldn't verify the accuracy of all of it anyway??? Should they have just ignored the whole thing or first verified what was good and what wasn't?? Is it just using possibly bad intel to get warrants that was illegal??? Or at what point did their use of that intel become illegal on their part??? Also, who's accountable for it, Fusion GPS, Steele, Hilary, or the Obama Admin??

See my post above.

First, regardless of the truth, they cannot use oppo research from Obamas own party against his rival to get warrants to spy on them. If they thought the info was true, they could have sent their own agents to confirm this, and then after that perhaps used their own info without using the dossier that was paid for by a political party and relied on Russian agents intel.

Secondly, it would have taken them about an hour to realize large claims made in the dossier were obviously false, such as Cohens meeting in Prague. If an investigative agency has a bunch of eveidnce that relies solely on the sources credibility (Steele in this case) and you instantly see that large parts of what they are saying is wrong, there is no way you would use this to get a warrant, especially against a political opponent for President.

In addition, we have seen that even media groups would not release this because is was so shady and unverifiable.

Again, this sets the precedent that in the future Trump can have his party pay people to go to foreign rivals, rely on their intel agencies, use a slaicous document saying their political opponents are treasonous and like urine etc., have some of that info be clearly a lie, but as long as any little thing it is true having that be used to get fisa warrants to spy on opponents.

It is insane.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Pyle
a reply to: ketsuko

Where did Obama or ANYONE else for that matter use the information during the election to effect the election? Hell the public didnt know about it until after the election. The media refused to release it until it became known that it was briefed to Obama and Trump in January. If I remember my timelines correctly the FISA warrants were only issued after the persons of interest were off the campaign.

Again with this lie.

Mother jones was reporting on this on Oct. 31.

Main stream media people, that were rabidly anti trump, were in contact with steele about this for months before the election.

1 outlet before the election? Why wasnt it blasted on CNN and MSNBC and WaPo and NYT, ect?