ICE arrests parents at Childs hospital before surgery but that is not my concern

a reply to: luthier

OK. I was trying to not drill down to much because it was not what the OP was about however.

I work in the field of HR/Payroll/Business Practice so I am well aware of how to hire, track and report. Using EVerify and some other 3rd parties are great tools to protect yourself as a company but there are 1000's of companies in the US who do not use it.

There are companies who do hire illegals direct. There used to be huge rings of Eastern Europeans who would be ferried in and employed in St Pete Beach where I grew up. They were cheaper than the Hispanics they were bringing in before. They used to get busted a few times a year and still do. The sad fact is it is cheaper to pay a fine then to not hire. That is where the breakdown is.

a reply to: FHomerK

You wouldn't like it if I moved into your garage and set myself up to live there, would you? I don't care what the motivation of the "undocumented immigrant" is, it is violating the law. I'd pay GOOD money to see how those who disagree would react to having these "immigrants" decide to just come and camp out in their back yard.

Got news for you, suddenly the label would be "trespasser" and not "undocumented immigrant".

Every undocumented immigrant I've ever known has either paid rent to someone or has camped close to where they work, usually on the land owned by the employer, when the work is agricultural. Some land owners even set up shacks with cooking stoves.

That's how I know what "mucho mas" means. One time after I did a store run for refried beans and tortillas. One guy kept handing me burritos and saying, "mucho mas". It means plenty more.

originally posted by: queenofswords

I am sure the taxpayers paid for this surgery, but, when it comes to a baby with a life threatening condition, I have no problem picking up the tab once they are here. I could never allow any child to do without needed medical treatments, although our own citizens do sometimes.

This.

Who cares who is paying for it? If we are really being honest with ourselves, the reason we bristle at this notion is because we have allowed our own government to screw us so hard over healthcare. From the complete lack of cost controls/regulation to the mandate that everyone must pony up additional cash for insurance (basically, bloating up the middle man just for shiz and giggles...its the stupidest thing I have ever heard of....we filter payment for medical services through a company that charges us a premium, and creates at least a doubling of overall cost...for no good reason).

I'd direct anyone upset over taxpayers footing the bill here to invest that angst and energy into demanding answers for just what in the actual hell our legislators are doing with this ACA crap. Why on Gods green Earth are we filtering our payment processing through the insurance industry? Its a for profit middle man that makes absolutely zero sense.

originally posted by: SR1TX
You guys will be judged one day. Remember that.

A. Who is "you guys" referring to?

B. Judged by whom?

a reply to: matafuchs

Well my apologies anyone who has read my posts know I am trying to change the narrative to the main cause of illegals which is they can be easily hired. States that have made everify mandatory for all employers have seen big results. So big they have had some labor shortages.

My point is we are are chasing our tails with reforms if we don't fix the hiring. They will come in propane tanks dragged through the gulf of Mexico or shipping containers etc.

The fines need to be as serious as the illegal labor possibly tied to fixing there estimate of damages to the American taxpayer and the exploited labor. Some are literally brought against their wills or recruited directly in Mexico like with meat packers and contractors in Texas.

How about a temp visa for labor shortage at the same time as the clamp down.one you have to apply for in person in Mexico. Maybe we can save some money.

Ultimately I don't blame labor. If I was destitute with a job offer in the us I would probably go too. Especially looking at my hungry kids.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Oh it makes sense. Just nott for us pee ons. Healthcare is working great for politicians. They can divide us and they get great care. Win win.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Civilized humanity has laws...without them we might as well throw civility out the window. The blame for all of this rests on those who knowingly broke the law putting them and their families in the position they find themselves in. The only ones I feel for are the children who had no choice. Unfortunately if we give them a break it promotes parents to continue breaking our laws to come here and have more children. Its sad but it is what it is.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
I do have some compassion for the kids.

I also do not want to be cruel.

But, this can not continue.

Time to enforce our Nation's law...

Amen brother! When the law says to hell with kindness and compassion, its time to bust some skulls! That's what being American is all about!

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: matafuchs

I can't imagine what they are all going through right now. It makes me actually cry. I've been a mom in the PICU with a baby fresh from surgery. God they must be terrified and shattered. They must be worried if they will ever see their child again. They must be praying that their child survives, whatever happens to themselves.

Humanity doesn't end at the border. The border is a human construct, a line in the sand defined by war and blood that says "ours not yours!" But is there a border on humanity itself? Only the borders you make in your own hearts against those "not from around here" both within and without that artificial line.

Humanity is One.

It may cost money to help a child or family in need. It costs our souls a lot more if we don't.

You might need to see a doctor about that bleeding heart. Borders are actually real. Musicians can actually make a living wage in Europe, yet I can't go to there? Insanity!!! Also, there are hospitals in Mexico. Unless you're willing to start a business, sponsor the family, and pay for their surgery...
It is way easier to cry and demand someone else do something though, isn't it?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
My wife, first generation immigration who is not yet a citizen, says it's about time. She wants all illegals gone.

Bravo! I hope she has the decency to remove herself from the country and save the US taxpayers the much needed money!

originally posted by: luthier
Ultimately I don't blame labor. If I was destitute with a job offer in the us I would probably go too. Especially looking at my hungry kids.

This is an important distinction though. Just because someone is starving or their children/family is starving does not mean they have the right to come to this country looking to feed themselves. If they were decent human beings they would feed themselves where ever they come from, or not and starve. Why should the US be punished because these folks are being so selfish?

a reply to: pthena

Here's a hanky for your bleeding heart.


Sorry, we have laws. Laws, are meant to be followed by everyone.

EVERYONE.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: fiverx313
completely horrible, this makes me ashamed of my country.

Really? This is what it took?

The tens of thousands of innocents we bombed into ash over the last 15 years didn't do it?

sorry, i thought in the interest of staying on topic in the thread, i would skip the 10,000 word essay on all the things about america that i feel need substantial improvement. as a moderator, i would've thought you'd appreciate that.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Morality is out the window in survival. Your comment is not real. You would be immoral to not provide for your family. If it took breaking a man made law so be it.

Especially when they wake up with people hanging from street lamps from cartels whom america buys drugs from. It's not a simple problem.

Now the risk of breaking the law is getting caught. Which you have to also accept.

I do wonder though why employers aren't being terrified by the chances of getting caught employing them? That seems odd to me. You would think taking a hard line on them would be a key part if not the key part.

a reply to: fiverx313

I do.

It just looked like a leap and grasp for hyperbole, and I thought i'd check.

a reply to: FHomerK

Finally, someone smart enough to know there are never any bad or morally repugnant laws. Checkmate hippies!

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: AboveBoard

The child is till getting the operation, correct?

Is your argument that the U.S. taxpayer must treat every suck kid in the world and allow their parents to live here?

There are plenty of citizens of this country that need homes, food, health care, etc.

Why don't we fix those problems before dealing with the rest of the world.

Yes. According to the OP's article, the border agents escorted the family to the hospital in Corpus Christi, where the baby was to have the surgery. Then, they were individually taken to the Border Patrol station, processed, then allowed to return to the hospital. Once they were both processed, they were allowed to remain with their baby through the surgery, if I'm understanding correctly.

The agent said they officers could escort the couple to the Corpus Christi hospital for their son to get his surgery, but that they would be arrested the moment they arrived and face deportation proceedings. As any parent would, the couple agreed.

What followed were two straight days of constant surveillance by Border Patrol agents, who Sanchez said never left their sides, asking Irma to keep the door open while she breast-fed and following him to the hospital cafeteria. They were arrested and separately taken to the local Border Patrol station to be booked before being allowed to return to their baby’s side. Sanchez asked the doctor to delay the operation until both he and his wife could be at the hospital.

I am sure the taxpayers paid for this surgery, but, when it comes to a baby with a life threatening condition, I have no problem picking up the tab once they are here. I could never allow any child to do without needed medical treatments, although our own citizens do sometimes.

Tighter border security is a must. The Wall is a must. Cracking down on illegal hiring practices is a must. Deportation of those here illegally is a must. Finding and deporting people that overstay their visas is a must. Supporting the ICE agents and Border Patrol agents that are doing their jobs is a must.

That they allowed them to be at the hospital was at least something and showed a measure of awareness regarding the need for some compassion.

It was extremely harsh timing and we need better legal tools to deal with immigration, in my opinion. I would hope we could provide temporary humanitarian waivers in circumstances like this that would allow their status to be addressed while they are getting their child to the point of being healthy, if that is possible.

I'm not saying there should be a border free for all, just that our laws need to be enacted with an eye to both justice and mercy, control and compassion.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: matafuchs

We are talking about 30 percent of some national industries. Some estimates say 60 to 70 percent of roofers in Texas are illegal. Your telling me they solved that problem.

Indeed. I was born and raised in New Mexico (born in '69) and the situation was the same there. The roofing companies are very small themselves with few employees besides the owners/operators. The workers they get are whoever they can get to lay down the shingles and hammer that nail in. Those workers are quite often illegals and you might not even see the same workers show up in jobs over a day long. I can almost guarantee you that many of these workers are getting paid under the table with cash.

The same goes for field hands. You see pickup loads of them headed out to meeting spots, almost always outside of town limits. They wait there and someone comes by to pick them up for their day's jobs.

None of this stuff is new. This didn't originate with Obama no matter how people like to claim he was the start of all the illegal evils. This is a corruption within employers and the labor system and has gone back many years. Start coming down on employers/businesses. Who do you think is propagating this system? Take a look at how many loopholes there are for the rich to hide income, avoid taxes, and get around regulations. Anyone that claims it's too difficult for people to hire illegals these days has no clue just how easy it is.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: fiverx313

I do.

It just looked like a leap and grasp for hyperbole, and I thought i'd check.

not at all. 'this' isn't the breaking point that finally made me ashamed of something about america. 'this' is just another one of many areas where i know we can and should do better as a country.

i'll try to include a disclaimer next time.