Should We DISARM All The Cops?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: underwerks

And my point is neither the video nor the OP attempt to pretend there's no power dynamic. When one person has authority that another person doesn't have, there's a power dynamic. Nor is the video, or the OP, about corruption or the proverbial Thin Blue Line.

Did you want to talk about the statistics addressed in the OP and the video? If you'd like to discuss statistics relating to something else, you're welcome to find them and create a thread about them.

I wanted to talk about the part from the OP I quoted, and the implications of that. But I see you don't want to discuss that part, no matter how central it is to the issues you raised in the OP. No worries.

a reply to: underwerks

I did discuss it, you just don't like the answer you got. I can only presume you don't like it because I agreed and acknowledged that a power dynamic exists, but that the information in the video and the OP doesn't attempt to dismiss that.

I'm not worried, but thanks.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: underwerks

I did discuss it, you just don't like the answer you got. I can only presume you don't like it because I agreed and acknowledged that a power dynamic exists, but that the information in the video and the OP doesn't attempt to dismiss that.

I'm not worried, but thanks.

What was the answer again? That statistics somehow prove being afraid of cops is unwarranted?

Yeah that doesn't work. As long as that power dynamic you admitted to exists, fear of police isn't unwarranted. Statistically, I probably won't get struck by lightning, but I'd still be nervous holding a metal pole in a thunderstorm.

a reply to: Abysha

Not having an armed police force in a nation full of legally-armed citizens is a super bad idea.

Care to explain why you worded that statement in such a way ?
Please . I know the answer , but I want other folks to know
Sometimes some folk's posts are better than watching reruns of the 3 Stooges

a reply to: Shamrock6

I think you should all get even more weapons like flamethrowers, hand grenades, those exploding thingies you bury in the ground for people to step on and thermonuclear devices.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Disarm cops when the entire country has a legal right to own a gun? You can bet your last dollar every criminal in the country carries or has access to a gun. That would be like leading them into a lion's den!

I do think cops need to be armed with a much more effective weapon to immobilize a suspect. The tazer is not effective from long distances and it doesn't immediately immobilize a person in a quick situation.

I know if I had a family member who was a cop, I certainly wouldn't want them to be walking into a gang infested neighborhood, or confronting an armed criminal with just a tazer or club. Police across the nation would be leaving the profession in droves!

a reply to: underwerks

Dude.

I think the problem we have right now is that you somehow think I'm arguing something that I haven't said. You seem to think that the OP and/or video are a) an attempt to dispel the notion that there's a power dynamic between those who enforce law and those who don't (it's not), b) an attempt to tell people there's nothing to fear from law enforcement at all, ever (it's not), and c) that it's an attempt to dismiss the notion that cops get away with things that non-cops don't (again, it's not).

You're trying to get me to debate and defend something I didn't say, so the "debate" isn't going to go anywhere.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Since Trump reversed the federal stance on surplus military gear, who knows?

a reply to: Shamrock6


Cool, make sure you tell off color jokes while you dispense 30mm justice from your up-armored squad car.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

a reply to: Shamrock6

So the odds of meeting and being attacked by an extremist muslim are even lower than that but many will tell you all day about the threat that Islam poses to the west.

Making sure police officers have their weapons in their cars is a good idea. That way if they really need one they can get it, but until then they have to deal with the situation with their own two hands and not a deadly tool that can change someone's entire life with the simple pull of a trigger.

originally posted by: ThePeaceMaker
Yup disarm cops and then when you have a Mumbai style terrorist attack with terrorists shooting off their AK-47s or when for example the armed robbers that robbed the bank in North Hollywood a few years back, you've got to wait for an officer to get out his car and unlock a secure box to retrieve their firearm ... no thanks

Because those are TOTALLY daily events that police officers have to deal with... *eyeroll*.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: underwerks

Dude.

I think the problem we have right now is that you somehow think I'm arguing something that I haven't said. You seem to think that the OP and/or video are a) an attempt to dispel the notion that there's a power dynamic between those who enforce law and those who don't (it's not), b) an attempt to tell people there's nothing to fear from law enforcement at all, ever (it's not), and c) that it's an attempt to dismiss the notion that cops get away with things that non-cops don't (again, it's not).

You're trying to get me to debate and defend something I didn't say, so the "debate" isn't going to go anywhere.

These are the parts from the OP I'm responding to:

Recently, and in the past, there's been a running meme on ATS that Americans are in grave danger from LE at all times, in all situations, any time you leave the house and any time you're in the house.

That's simply not true.

This video in particular is aimed at the media spun perception that I mentioned above, that Americans are at serious risk from law enforcement at all times.

And yes, I believe I'm in serious risk when confronted by a person that can kill me and get a vacation for punishment. I haven't had the same experience as a lot of people here, in my experience the police are more of a danger to me than the people they're supposed to be protecting me from.

It isn't anything directly aimed at you, I know you're a LEO and I actually respect you, probably because we're talking instead of you throwing me down with a knee in my back. What I'm saying, is that it isn't irrational for people to be afraid of cops. My type of experience isn't by any means rare, especially in lower income areas like where I'm from.

If this thread isn't about how you shouldn't be afraid of police because, look at the statistics! Then I apologize. That's what I got from reading the OP.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Hmmmmm does the movie Purge:Anarchy ring a bell?

a reply to: underwerks

And yes, I believe I'm in serious risk when confronted by a person that can kill me and get a vacation for punishment. I haven't had the same experience as a lot of people here, in my experience the police are more of a danger to me than the people they're supposed to be protecting me from.

That's your own personal experience. If you had watched the video, the creator point blank says that he's giving a general "average" picture, and that he's not going into specific demographic statistics. The numbers are for an average cop, an average citizen, on an average day.

It isn't anything directly aimed at you, I know you're a LEO and I actually respect you,probably because we're talking instead of you throwing me down with a knee in my back.

For now. (seriously though, I appreciate the comment. The feeling is mutual, and that's in spite of us frequently finding ourselves on opposites of an issue)

If this thread isn't about how you shouldn't be afraid of police because, look at the statistics! Then I apologize. That's what I got from reading the OP.

I assure you that that's not the intent. Simply to put information out there that it's not the epidemic of Wild West proportions that some would lead people to believe. I would no sooner suggest that you never have anything to fear from law enforcement than I would suggest that law enforcement never has anything to fear from anybody else. But being aware that the general risk might not quite be as big as what somebody made it out to be is not the same as saying there's no risk at all.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So the odds of meeting and being attacked by an extremist muslim are even lower than that but many will tell you all day about the threat that Islam poses to the west.

Yep. Thought that was an interesting tidbit.

Making sure police officers have their weapons in their cars is a good idea. That way if they really need one they can get it, but until then they have to deal with the situation with their own two hands and not a deadly tool that can change someone's entire life with the simple pull of a trigger.

I don't really agree with the suggestion. If American society was disarmed to the level of, for example, England or Australia, I think it would be quite reasonable. Training and decision making processes are, in my opinion, the areas of bigger need.

In a utopian society, it would be nice not to have armed police. But we're not there yet and we have some very dangerous criminals on the street. Cops should be armed.

Cops should'nt be militarized. Cops should get extra training in non lethal training and hand to Jiu-Jitsu. Cops should get sensitivity training. Cops should get De-esculation training. Cops should get training the handling of mentally ill people. We should fund more Detox and rahabilitation centers for drug addicts. We should study violence, it's causes, how to decrease it and model those areas where there are effective programs.

a reply to: Shamrock6
I was standing on the double yellow line in the street in front of my house this morning at 2:30 am and a local policeman rolled up next to me and asked what was up.
He didn't shoot me, and he was armed. (I heard a crash outside my house that awakened me and two of my neighbors. I went out to find pieces of car on the street where a driver has struck a telephone pole. The cop informed me that they had stopped the car two blocks down the street... all of this took place within three minutes of me hearing the crash.)
They didn't shoot anyone else either.

Talk like this of disarming cops is utterly goofy.

You couldn't get me to do a cop's job. I wouldn't think of sending them out unarmed.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Something needs to be done. There are too many shootings as it is. The odds of one happening may be low, but it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. If police were better at policing their own this wouldn't be an issue, but too often police get slaps on the wrist or no punishments whatsoever for these shootings which goes to fuel further discontent with the police.

Deescalating the war on drugs also needs to happen. As it stands the war on drugs is borderline in violation of posse commitatus with how militarized the police has become. Sure saying that the odds of being shot by a police officer are low, but that isn't exactly reassuring given the reality of our police state these days.