Should We DISARM All The Cops?

After the Justine Damond shooting in Minnesota, a Minnesota state legislator was quoted as saying that law enforcement should be disarmed. A few days later, he clarified his comments that he's not suggesting that LE be entirely disarmed, "only" that LE not have firearms on their person but rather that they be kept secured in their vehicles.

Recently, and in the past, there's been a running meme on ATS that Americans are in grave danger from LE at all times, in all situations, any time you leave the house and any time you're in the house.

That's simply not true.

The video below was put together by another active LEO. His channel is dedicated mostly to giving people an inside look at different aspects of law enforcement as well as discussing current events from a LE perspective. He's also heavily involved in a non-profit aimed towards fostering better community interaction with LE agencies and the areas they serve.

This video in particular is aimed at the media spun perception that I mentioned above, that Americans are at serious risk from law enforcement at all times.

What this video is: a breakdown of statistics (if you can't watch the video, or don't want to, here's the big one: your odds of not being killed by a cop that's talking to you on average - roughly 99.8882%); a list of things more likely to kill you than a cop (shark attack, for one); rough numbers being used that are geared towards supporting the "OMG cops are killing everybody" crowd, yet still don't support their narrative; the video also briefly mentions the need for training and tools.

What this video is not: an excuse for unjustified killings by law enforcement (both the video creator and I are completely willing to recognize that unjustified killings happen); the video does not address the Damond incident specifically; the video is also not a complete dismissal of the fact that sometimes mistakes are made, and that sometimes bad decisions happen.

I don't presume that this is going to change everybody's mind, and probably not even that many minds. But for the folks that like hard data over media driven perception, you might find it interesting.

a reply to: Shamrock6

The very concept, the idea, that cops are armed has probably prevented more deaths (and deaths to cops) than we could ever quantify.

Just disarm all the roid addicts. When I used to train LEOs in CIT, those guys were psychotic and not to be trusted.

More cameras, more citizen review boards and less internal investigation.

Living in a country where only the specially trained specialist response teams are armed, I'm very much in favour of the cops not being armed.

I appreciate that's not possible in a heavily armed country like the USA though.

So I think all cops having to carry always-recording cameras on themselves would be the best solution to the problem.


All cops should carry video cameras at all times.

Yup disarm cops and then when you have a Mumbai style terrorist attack with terrorists shooting off their AK-47s or when for example the armed robbers that robbed the bank in North Hollywood a few years back, you've got to wait for an officer to get out his car and unlock a secure box to retrieve their firearm ... no thanks

Simple solution don't be a dick to police and don't point your gun at police

Not only that if you were to disarm police and someone's life was lost due to an officer not being able to return fire .. the police will get the blame for not being equipped to handle a situation.

As an LEO you're contanstly under the spotlight no matter what you do ..

a reply to: Shamrock6

Not having an armed police force in a nation full of legally-armed citizens is a super bad idea.

I think a more appropriate step would be to shift excessive force investigations to a third-party, non-local prosecuting team.

Draw a pyramid of cops, civilians and bad guys.

If one has guns it put the other two at a severe disadvantage as you'll just have whacked out nutters and your normal sort of criminal running around doing what they want as if you disagree you're down to the meat plant. Obviously it would be nice to think the criminals did have them but...........

Here in the UK its totally the opposite and balance is restored just the same as it is in the USA.

Disarm the police, that might be the single dumbest thing I have ever heard, How did someone that limited in ability to think end up in office.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Disarm the police, that might be the single dumbest thing I have ever heard, How did someone that limited in ability to think end up in office.

What's next, send them to sensitivity training ?

I say give them more guns, better training and screening processes.

The idea of cops not carrying guns is the most asinine thing I've heard in a while.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Recently, and in the past, there's been a running meme on ATS that Americans are in grave danger from LE at all times, in all situations, any time you leave the house and any time you're in the house.

That's simply not true.

I disagree with this part. Show all the statistics you want, it doesn't change the power dynamic present in encounters with police.

When you have an armed agent of the state who can kill you and who's word will always mean more than yours in a court of law, some measure of fear is warranted. In all encounters.

We live in a society where the responsibility is on untrained civilians to act correctly in these situations instead of the police who are trained for these situations.

Back to the title of the OP, of course police should be armed. As should everyone. It's not lost on me that protecting ourselves from over zealous agents of the state is the foundation of the 2nd amendment either.

Lots of good ideas in this thread. I think the consensus is no we shouldnt disarm police. Earlier this year by request of the district Attorneys office i testified on behalf of 4 beverly hills pd regarding a taser incident. My take was the police were very well trained. Did everything as they should have. Took extra precaution to make sure civilians were not in the line of fire and gave the suspect every reasonable chance to comply before they ended up tasering the guy. 9 times out of 10 the police use their weapons in a justifiable and calculated manner.

a reply to: underwerks

I disagree with this part. Show all the statistics you want, it doesn't change the power dynamic present in encounters with police.

And you can talk about "the power dynamic" all you want, they don't refute the actual numbers we're talking about. Law enforcement having control over the situation doesn't change the statistics at hand. And, bottom line, the numbers aren't discussed in an effort to dismiss or shift "the power dynamic."

We live in a society where the responsibility is on untrained civilians to act correctly in these situations instead of the police who are trained for these situations.

The responsibility isn't on civilians to act correctly. Though it certainly helps when they do. Lots of civilians act like complete assholes and still make it home just fine. Again, the numbers aren't being discussed to somehow shift responsibility.

a reply to: underwerks

The problem is with the STRUCTURE of Admiralty law and it's compromised by cash and obstructive measures to prevent anyone from stopping it.

a reply to: Shamrock6

My God, that makes as much sense as disarming the military.

All these people that keep bringing up how armed this nation is as the reason are off, the criminals are very well armed, the citizens that are armed are mostly law abiding.

a reply to: Shamrock6

My point is, it's not the prevalence of incidents, it's the power dynamic that is always present, regardless if anything happens or not. And the fact that my word as a citizen will always mean less than a police officers' in a court of law. Especially when you factor in how much police cover for one another.

We're talking about a literal get out of jail free card here. I don't like my life being an option in an encounter with anyone, badge or not.

Since you're talking statistics, any idea what the conviction rates for police are versus the regular population?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I've posted comments like what this officer is saying numerous times here on ATS, and it always seems to fall on deaf ears (or people choose not to respond...probably because reading long posts with numbers and math is too inconvenient to those who embrace perception over fact).

Good video.

a reply to: underwerks

And my point is neither the video nor the OP attempt to pretend there's no power dynamic. When one person has authority that another person doesn't have, there's a power dynamic. Nor is the video, or the OP, about corruption or the proverbial Thin Blue Line.

Did you want to talk about the statistics addressed in the OP and the video? If you'd like to discuss statistics relating to something else, you're welcome to find them and create a thread about them.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Well y'know...some comments are guaranteed stars for some folks and other comments aren't.

I just find it odd how little this particular subject area seems to get the same "fake news/MSM lies/don't believe the MSM" treatment that we see so often about other subjects.

originally posted by: underwerks
Show all the statistics you want, it doesn't change the power dynamic present in encounters with police.

When you have an armed agent of the state who can kill you and who's word will always mean more than yours in a court of law, some measure of fear is warranted. In all encounters.

No, the only "warranted fear" is that which exists in your own head. But, of course, "warranted" is a subjective term, so you can live in "some" fear when encountering officers all that you want--the rest of us will remain a tad more rational. The only thing that I'm afraid of when I interact with officers in a profession manner is if I'm going to get a ticket--and I have a CCDW permit and always have a firearm on me in my vehicle.

We live in a society where the responsibility is on untrained civilians to act correctly in these situations instead of the police who are trained for these situations.

Well, yes, that's called personal responsibility and knowing how to function in a society, two things that too many people in America lack these days.

Police are not there to befriend you at every interaction, but they're not also there to constantly intimidate you. If you find yourself in an intimidating situation with an officer, odds are that you acted like a GD fool and deserve what you're getting. But then again, in a society that lacks personal responsibility and lacks people skills, it's hard for people to understand that.