Is The Alt-Left Craziness Driving Centrists To The Right

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Gryphon66

The Term "Right Wing" is a subjective one. Your Idea of it and Mine would probably be quite different. I don't think you get anywhere doing things like that, IMO.

Sure, sure. I don't disagree with you. About the meanings of "right and left" in the wider world.

But ... do you have an opinion of what the Republicans in Congress would say?

Do you think that they claim to be right-wing? and vice-versa?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Gryphon66

The Term "Right Wing" is a subjective one. Your Idea of it and Mine would probably be quite different. I don't think you get anywhere doing things like that, IMO.

Sure, sure. I don't disagree with you. About the meanings of "right and left" in the wider world.

But ... do you have an opinion of what the Republicans in Congress would say?

Do you think that they claim to be right-wing? and vice-versa?

Again it would depend. If someone thought right wing meant Nazi-like, then probably no, most politicians with a brain would not want to be associated that way. A better descriptor would be Conservative or moderate or Strict Constitutionalist perhaps?

Just say what you are trying to articulate. Is right wing good or bad?

a reply to: pavil

Republican's are suppose to be the party of conservatives.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: pavil

Republican's are suppose to be the party of conservatives.

Yes.... Does right wing equal Conservative in today's media? I hear the term right wing hate groups, not conservative hate groups.

a reply to: pavil

Do you really think Republicans in the Congress think "right-wing" means Nazi-like? Can you show some of them that have said that?

For example, Rep. Randy Weber (R-Texas) has said:

I'm so Republican, my first name starts with 'R.' I'm so right-wing - well, Randy Weber. You do the math.

So, do you have any examples of Congressional Republicans decrying right-wing politics?

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Like Kettu wrote, there is no alt-left.
I looked on a chart that lists my views as liberal.

GOP is already pretty far right. Sticking with Trump is driving them to Autocracy. That's the craziness. I have yet to see a personality cult lead to anything good.

Whatever the name, if you don't realize independents broke for Trump this last election, then well, I can't help you. Stay in denial.

Independents broke for the candidate who lost the popular vote?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: pavil

Do you really think Republicans in the Congress think "right-wing" means Nazi-like? Can you show some of them that have said that?

For example, Rep. Randy Weber (R-Texas) has said:

I'm so Republican, my first name starts with 'R.' I'm so right-wing - well, Randy Weber. You do the math.

So, do you have any examples of Congressional Republicans decrying right-wing politics?

You are not listening. It doesn't matter what the politician or you think, you both can have different definitions of the word. What is right wing to you? How would you define it? Conservative? Intolerant? Fiscally sound? Anti Immigrant or enforcing Immigration law? Right is just a catch-all as is left.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Like Kettu wrote, there is no alt-left.
I looked on a chart that lists my views as liberal.

GOP is already pretty far right. Sticking with Trump is driving them to Autocracy. That's the craziness. I have yet to see a personality cult lead to anything good.

Whatever the name, if you don't realize independents broke for Trump this last election, then well, I can't help you. Stay in denial.

Independents broke for the candidate who lost the popular vote?

How do you explain Trump winning then? All of a sudden there were just more Republicans? He got some of Obama's voters and independents.

originally posted by: pavil
How do you explain Trump winning then? All of a sudden there were just more Republicans? He got some of Obama's voters and independents.

It's called the electoral college. Trump only got 63 million, Hillary got 66 million.

In 2012, Obama got 66 million, Romney got 60 million.
In 2008, Obama got 70 million, McCain got 60 million.
In 2004, Bush got 62 million, Kerry got 59 million.
In 2000, Bush and Gore both got 51 million.

Considering Obama got as many votes in 2012 as Hillary got in 2016, I don't think the story that Trump siphoned off voters is real. If anything, Trump encouraged more voters (his lunatic fringe base) to come out and vote. And despite that, he still didn't get the popular vote which would indicate that more supported him than any other candidate.

For that matter, in 2004 Bush had 62,039,073 while Trump in 2016 got 62,980,160. Only a 1.5% increase in votes from an election where Bush was highly favored despite the fact that the population increased by from 293 million to 323 million or 10%.

The numbers do not favor Trump.

If anything, given the lower total voter turnout per capita, it suggests that people didn't want to vote for either one of the major choices.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: pavil

Do you really think Republicans in the Congress think "right-wing" means Nazi-like? Can you show some of them that have said that?

For example, Rep. Randy Weber (R-Texas) has said:

I'm so Republican, my first name starts with 'R.' I'm so right-wing - well, Randy Weber. You do the math.

So, do you have any examples of Congressional Republicans decrying right-wing politics?

You are not listening. It doesn't matter what the politician or you think, you both can have different definitions of the word. What is right wing to you? How would you define it? Conservative? Intolerant? Fiscally sound? Anti Immigrant or enforcing Immigration law? Right is just a catch-all as is left.

It doesn't matter what the politicians think of themselves?

You're arguing semantics. Thanks for your time.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: pavil
How do you explain Trump winning then? All of a sudden there were just more Republicans? He got some of Obama's voters and independents.

It's called the electoral college. Trump only got 63 million, Hillary got 66 million.

In 2012, Obama got 66 million, Romney got 60 million.
In 2008, Obama got 70 million, McCain got 60 million.
In 2004, Bush got 62 million, Kerry got 59 million.
In 2000, Bush and Gore both got 51 million.

Considering Obama got as many votes in 2012 as Hillary got in 2016, I don't think the story that Trump siphoned off voters is real. If anything, Trump encouraged more voters (his lunatic fringe base) to come out and vote. And despite that, he still didn't get the popular vote which would indicate that more supported him than any other candidate.

For that matter, in 2004 Bush had 62,039,073 while Trump in 2016 got 62,980,160. Only a 1.5% increase in votes from an election where Bush was highly favored despite the fact that the population increased by from 293 million to 323 million or 10%.

The numbers do not favor Trump.

If anything, given the lower total voter turnout per capita, it suggests that people didn't want to vote for either one of the major choices.

So 3 Million more Republicans just showed up finally? Read some exit polling. I know it's hard to believe but Trump did much better than Hillary did in some key Demographics and Hillary underperformed Vs Obama in those same demos. You figure out what that means.

a reply to: Aazadan

My condolences.

Aside from that, great facts, great presentation ... to the point.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Kettu
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Care to prove me wrong? I'll be here...waiting....

IF the alt left doesn't exist how can the alt right ?

You think you have busted him but you haven't. Alt-right is an alternative to the mainstream right and conservatism. It's even in the definition!

I find these labels to be divisive and a bit silly. Some twat will be along soon with a new definition for a fringe group.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Go look in the mirror. You want me to say something thats obviously not agreeing with your view of this.

You still haven't told me what you think Right wing means something other than Republican? Why not just say you are a Republican rather than a Right wing Republican? I don't get what you are trying to say? Do Democrats say they are left wing Democrats running for office?
Hung up on names rather than actual policies. What a shock.

originally posted by: pavil
I don't get what you are trying to say?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Hey, I've got a general knowledge question for the membership ...

How many who classify themselves as "right-wing" members of Congress (House and Senate) or in the Administration are Republicans?

or, conversely

How many Republicans in Congress or in the Administration wouldn't classify themselves as "right-wing"?

a reply to: Gryphon66

How many right Wing Democrats are there now....didn't the DNC kick them out?

a reply to: pavil

They both underperformed, Trump performed worse. That doesn't mean he couldn't win, only that he did much worse than he should have.

What it suggests is that neither candidate was desirable. Trump pulled few Democrats. Instead, they stayed home for the most part. One of the big metrics was that 12% of Democrats who were registered and likely voters chose to stay home because they were upset over what happened to Bernie. That's 6 million voters Hillary lost right there... and the majority of why she underperformed, and why she lost the states she needed to win to beat Trump.

There wasn't a Trump surge.

a reply to: Aazadan
I agree. He didn't win because the people came out in droves to support Trump. He won because people rejected Hillary and were disgusted with the existing government.

It was a surprise ending because the government ignores the voice of the people.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

However, to make claims about what "most Americans" believe or want ... and then ignore every measure of "most Americans" is ridiculous.

I think this is ridiculous too. There really isn't "most Americans" when there is only a 2% difference in who voted for him and who didn't. The way I see it is America needs both the right and left agendas to be healthy. I would not want to see America under either for a long duration. One group focuses on a few areas while a few years later the other group does the same. These areas might be 180 degrees from each other, but it doesn't mean any of them are wrong because of that.

So at the end of the day we get 8 years of Obama and 50% of the country is not happy and then we get Trump and 50% of the country is not happy. If you want to say 48/52% ok..still with in any margin to suggest the country is 50/50, but at the end of the day things get done that I think over all works in everyone favor.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Kettu
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Care to prove me wrong? I'll be here...waiting....

IF the alt left doesn't exist how can the alt right ?

You think you have busted him but you haven't. Alt-right is an alternative to the mainstream right and conservatism. It's even in the definition!

I find these labels to be divisive and a bit silly. Some twat will be along soon with a new definition for a fringe group.

Of course. The best solution is to just ignore them. But that's difficult as the media is blaring that crap 24 hours a day.