Is The Alt-Left Craziness Driving Centrists To The Right

a reply to: Aazadan

If that reasoning makes you feel better. Trump underperformed by getting more votes than any other Republican presidential candidate of recent memory? Good Lord, what would have happened in your world had he performed to your expectations? Look at OH and tell me he didn't take Democratic base voters.link

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66

However, to make claims about what "most Americans" believe or want ... and then ignore every measure of "most Americans" is ridiculous.

I think this is ridiculous too. There really isn't "most Americans" when there is only a 2% difference in who voted for him and who didn't. The way I see it is America needs both the right and left agendas to be healthy. I would not want to see America under either for a long duration. One group focuses on a few areas while a few years later the other group does the same. These areas might be 180 degrees from each other, but it doesn't mean any of them are wrong because of that.

So at the end of the day we get 8 years of Obama and 50% of the country is not happy and then we get Trump and 50% of the country is not happy. If you want to say 48/52% ok..still with in any margin to suggest the country is 50/50, but at the end of the day things get done that I think over all works in everyone favor.

Only a two percent difference? I see you know how to manipulate statistics. 2.8 million people are insignificant now, LOL?

What criteria do you suggest we measure the opinions of "most Americans' by then? I'd be glad to hear examples.

I agree that "right and left" are necessary in American politics but only as trends, not as positions.

I don't want to see a "One Party State" by any stretch ... in fact, I'd much prefer a "230 Million Party State"

Your comments about the People being kept about equally split over time is valid. It is a control mechanism.

If we focus on authoritarian control versus individual freedom, we shake off about 90% of the control.

a reply to: Kettu

Yeah we know. They are more appropriately referred to as 'ctrl-left'

And they are pushing centrists away

originally posted by: Gryphon66


A two percent difference? I see you know how to manipulate statistics. 2.8 million people are insignificant now, LOL?

So some how that equates to MOST? what is "most" 50.0001%

What criteria do you suggest we measure the opinions of "most Americans' by then? I'd be glad to hear examples.

I think "most" is a stupid measurement to begin with, so it is something I would not use. We could say 7 out of 10 Americans think XX and I'm not sure if that still represents "Most" or not, but I do know that 5.2 out of 10 Americans does not lol.

I agree that "right and left" are necessary in American politics but only as trends, not as positions.

I don't want to see a "One Party State" by any stretch ... in fact, I'd much prefer a "230 Million Party State"

Your comments about the People being kept about equally split over time is valid. It is a control mechanism.

If we focus on authoritarian control versus individual freedom, we shake off about 90% of the control.

Agree

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
a reply to: Kettu

Yeah we know. They are more appropriately referred to as 'ctrl-left'

And they are pushing centrists away

Actually, thanks to another member here, I discovered today that there is actually an "alt-left."

www.altleft.com

It's a Wordpress blog in operation since 2015. Dont' get your hopes up ... it has nothing to do with "Antifa" or "BLM" or any other bogeymen.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I didn't say 2.8 million people are "most" I don't believe: I have said these things though ---

"More Americans voted against Trump than voted for him."

"Most Americans that voted didn't vote for Trump."

... usually in response to absurd claims that the majority of America supports Trump when every single metric we have say otherwise.

"Most" is not stupid, IMO, it's merely imprecise; and I agree completely in essence with what you're saying, however, we still see droning on and on here about what "most Americans' think, believe, feel etc.

(Oddly, that always agrees with the speaker's thoughts, beliefs and feelings.)

So how do we measure public opinion then?

It's good to agree once in a while.

a reply to: Kettu

you are an example of alt-left that is delusional to the point where you don't see it

originally posted by: Gryphon66

"More Americans voted against Trump than voted for him."

True, not sure the value. I could say more people choose to vote against Hillary by not voting, neither really means anything to me though.

"Most Americans that voted didn't vote for Trump."

As I said define "Most" is that 50.0001%. Your statement above once again means nothing. Change Most with More and you would be correct again. In the way you use most it is like you are suggesting "almost all".

Not a big deal, but it does imply that just about everyone voted against him ...lol

... usually in response to absurd claims that the majority of America supports Trump when every single metric we have say otherwise.

OK, used as a re-attack...no matter what 50/50 +-5% is pretty dead middle...

So how do we measure public opinion then?

It's good to agree once in a while.

I don't think we can very well... We see snippets of it, but over all it is a fleeting ghost. One big problem is the old saying the squeaky wheel gets the oil, or gets noticed. I can use "most", as in most Americans do not say anything one way or the other, the silent majority.

Here is something interesting...If "did not vote" was a candidate here is how the election would have gone...

As a percentage of eligible voters, Clinton received 28.43% (65,845,063) of all votes compared to Trump’s 27.20% (62,980,160) and Did Not Vote’s 44.37% (102,731,399).

You want to base public opinion on what? Neither candidate took the majority with both under 50%, and the silent majority that did exceed 50% didn't vote.

Public opinion is just something the news program push as propaganda. As I said, the President should just work on their campaign agendas as much as possible and get as much done in their time in office. If that is a good ACA, or a good military, or good infrastructure, or secure the borders etc As you can see THERE IS NO "MOST" in any of this. There is no majority, no public opinion etc...

Just narratives of the left and right trying to push their agendas to suggest other wise.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I really don't want to make statements about public opinion, because whatever it was, it changed five minutes ago.

However, the constant false witnesses here that claim that "Americans think this or that" do get under the skin.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Me too. Can't really see that changing for me, either.

a reply to: Xtrozero

A Guage you can tell is with congress who is voted directly by the people.

Trump has radical ideas. Most people don't like radical ideas and the people who understand the reality of politics and don't get starry eyed for their heroes know. If you clamp down on his ideas they are so basic and meaningless its scary.

None of his supporters ever want to debate his policy and the possibility it has of it actually passing. They just assume his macho ceo act will work against other ego maniacs.

a reply to: luthier

Donald Trump could have functioned as just what this country so desperately needs ... a joiner rather than a divider.

On Election Night ... he said his first promise as President-Elect was that he wanted to be the President of all Americans.

Here's a bit of what he said:

Now it is time for America to bind the wounds of division, have to get together, to all Republicans and Democrats and independents across this nation I say it is time for us to come together as one united people. It’s time. I pledge to every citizen of our land that I will be president for all of Americans, and this is so important to me.

For those who have chosen not to support me in the past, of which there were a few people, I'm reaching out to you for your guidance and your help so that we can work together and unify our great country. As I've said from the beginning, ours was not a campaign but rather an incredible and great movement, made up of millions of hard-working men and women who love their country and want a better, brighter future for themselves and for their family.

Source

And that's just what we need ... a man of dramatic if not strong character who we can all in one way or another look at and say "That man is not perfect, but I know he has got my back."

However, the next morning, Trump went back to being his erratic, ego-maniacal self ... he's only gotten worse.

He's attacked Latinos; he's attacked Muslims; he's attacked LGBT folks; he's attacked lower-income people.

He has embarrassed us across the world. He has lost at least 50% of his starting advisors. He has alienated his own party in Congress.

He has achieved nothing but more harm to Americans, I would argue, according to plan.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Honestly man it does not matter, as long as congress is held in the grip of 20+ year professional politicians, and our optionis are strangled by the RNC and the DNC we will never see in our life time the visionary/statesman many believe we are in desperate need of.

I will do my part and keep digging for a third party, as many others do... but until we convince the american people that holding our elected congress critters accountable nothing much will change for the better.

Least thats my nickles worth.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Gryphon66

Honestly man it does not matter, as long as congress is held in the grip of 20+ year professional politicians, and our optionis are strangled by the RNC and the DNC we will never see in our life time the visionary/statesman many believe we are in desperate need of.

I will do my part and keep digging for a third party, as many others do... but until we convince the american people that holding our elected congress critters accountable nothing much will change for the better.

Least thats my nickles worth.

I agree. As much as I think we need that person, I would also fear them.

Imagine some who inspires, from left, right and the middle, as much loyalty as does Donald Trump among his faithful.

As long as we as a group require (or support) the authoritarian structures of government, commune, or tribe ... there will always be a real and present danger of The Great Woman or Man.

ETA: Damn, hit the button too early. I intended to end with "Damned if we do, damned if we don't."

I consider myself a centrist. I have wobbled between left and right. Never truly agreeing with one side or another. I voted for Obama...hoped for a 'good' change...was saddened that his change was not what I wanted! Hoped that the left would offer a better change...then last election they stated they were on course with Obama's change. Sigh. I was forced to vote for Trump. There was no serious choice for me as a centrist on November 2016.

Now...I am still center...I am not going more right or left. I am seeking politicians who WILL have the intelligence to move to my center. I don't believe I am a minority in this thought.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Gryphon66

Honestly man it does not matter, as long as congress is held in the grip of 20+ year professional politicians, and our optionis are strangled by the RNC and the DNC we will never see in our life time the visionary/statesman many believe we are in desperate need of.

I will do my part and keep digging for a third party, as many others do... but until we convince the american people that holding our elected congress critters accountable nothing much will change for the better.

Least thats my nickles worth.

I agree. As much as I think we need that person, I would also fear them.

Imagine some who inspires, from left, right and the middle, as much loyalty as does Donald Trump among his faithful.

As long as we as a group require (or support) the authoritarian structures of government, commune, or tribe ... there will always be a real and present danger of The Great Woman or Man.

ETA: Damn, hit the button too early. I intended to end with "Damned if we do, damned if we don't."

Understandable, thats what makes having good people in congress the most vital thing we can do in the next decade.

That will help things get done that need to be done that have been ignored for a decade+ now.

Also by getting things done they will have the trust of the people so when someone goes off the rails in the oval office they can do what needs to be done with less of a risk of a revolution kicking off.

Least thats what I think.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

However, the constant false witnesses here that claim that "Americans think this or that" do get under the skin.

I agree America doesn't, plain and simple. One is the reason why we think so many are like minded is because we see the same stores everywhere we go, so we think everyone is the same too, and that is not the case. Just look at like Portland compared to Chicago, might as well be London to Moscow in differences.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Yeah. I use to be a swinging voter. I wanted Hillary to win the election but after seeing the constant attacks on Trump by the left, I don't think I'll ever vote that way again.
This left movement is embarrassing.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm not talking about a blog. I'm talking about extremist progressives, leftists, marxists, socialists, and fascists who want to destroy the USA and rebuild it into their warped idea of utopia.

Because they want to control people, and they want to push an agenda that requires big government, and that is a leftwards slant.

Hence, Ctrl-Left

a reply to: Teikiatsu

You mean like the conservatives with their moral legislation?