Did Secretary of State Rex Tillerson Just Turn on Trump?

originally posted by: Dudemo5
This is a good article describing what Populism is, and what it isn't:

www.theatlantic.com...

populism is a “thin ideology” in that it “only speaks to a very small part of a political agenda,” according to Cas Mudde, a professor at the University of Georgia and the co-author of Populism: A Very Short Introduction.

so, by that definition all the candidates were populists.

originally posted by: Tardacus

originally posted by: Dudemo5
This is a good article describing what Populism is, and what it isn't:

www.theatlantic.com...

populism is a “thin ideology” in that it “only speaks to a very small part of a political agenda,” according to Cas Mudde, a professor at the University of Georgia and the co-author of Populism: A Very Short Introduction.

so, by that definition all the candidates were populists.

You might want to try reading the article again. Because NO, all the candidates were not populists.

The next part of that quote contains the following:

An ideology like fascism involves a holistic view of how politics, the economy, and society as a whole should be ordered. Populism doesn’t; it calls for kicking out the political establishment, but it doesn’t specify what should replace it. So it’s usually paired with “thicker” left- or right-wing ideologies like socialism or nationalism.

So, one ASPECT of populism is this siren call that "ALL THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE ARE CORRUPT AND MUST BE RUN OUT OF TOWN." However, Populism doesn't suggest, in and of itself, what should replace the corrupt, ruling elite.

Toward that end, Trump's campaign was Populism paired with Nationalism.

Now listen, it's clear you're trying to learn about all this while at the same time engaging in a debate, but it's not working for you. So I'm done with this nonsense.

Go educate yourself on someone else's time. Christ.

originally posted by: Dudemo5

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Dudemo5

ok, well lets look at the other definitions of populist and see if they fit your agenda:

a member of a U.S. political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies.

a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people

I`m pretty sure none of the candidates fit that first definition

and all the candidates proclaimed to fit the second definition.

Dude, give it up. Trump is a populist candidate. There are hundreds of well thought out articles online explaining what Populism is (as described by POLITICAL scientists) and showing how Trump is a Populist candidate.

It's pretty clear you're just learning what Populism is for the first time, while at the same time trying to win some stupid internet debate about something you know nothing about.

Take a deep breath and learn something. I've given you a couple of articles to read. There are lots more.

I have no interest in politics or winning internet debates, arguing on the internet is like being in the special Olympics, even if you win you`re still retarded.
I do have an interest in trying to enlighten people that they can step outside the box whenever they choose to.

a reply to: Dudemo5

“thin ideology” in that it “only speaks to a very small part of a political agenda,” it calls for kicking out the political establishment,

and isn`t that what the progressives are doing and saying now? they are protesting, rioting and murdering to change the current political establishment ,so by that additional definition it reinforces that the liberals/progressives were and are populists.

I`ve been voting since the 1970`s and I`m pretty sure that every opposition party has run on the platform of kicking out the current political establishment.

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Dudemo5

it calls for kicking out the political establishment,

and isn`t that the progressives are doing and saying now? so by that additional definition it reinforces that the liberals/progressives were and are populists.

NO.

The democrats are saying that Trump should be thrown out. They are also engaged in the usual, non-populist idea that we ought to get more people elected that agree with the left's ideology. Both sides do this and it is not a POPULIST position.

That is not the same as POPULISM, which holds that the ENTIRE establishment is corrupt (ie non-democratic) and must be purged because it does not represent the people.

When Sanders claimed that the CEOs and Wealthy Bankers were running the country and should essentially be punished and have their voices limited, that was populism.

When Trump says the entire establishment is a swamp that must be drained, THAT is populism.

a reply to: Dudemo5

oh I see now, so populism isn`t a bad a thing and may actually represent the truth.
as in, ceos and banksters run the country and the Washington establishment is a swamp that needs to be drained.

a reply to: Tardacus

and the only reason you were trying to turn the word back on 'leftists' is because you perceived it as an insult.

does it bother you how pathetically predictable you are? (along with most of your hardheaded compatriots?)

I'm just amazed at how easily the Trump cult become cannibalistic and vitriolic at the first sign of criticism to Trump from his cabinet personnel.
so now tiller-man is public enemy number one in the eyes of the trumpaholics because he spoke his mind

---

this is scientology level cult shlit. I

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Dudemo5

oh I see now, so populism isn`t a bad and may actually represent the truth.
as in, ceos and banksters run the country and the Washington establishment is a swamp that needs to be drained.

Well, to be completely clear, when I said Trump was a populist candidate, I didn't mean it in an overtly negative fashion. If you dig deep enough into Populism, you'll find some things worthy of debate, but bringing up those things was not my intent. It was merely a statement: The GOP base is hungry of POPULISTS right now. Truthfully, the DEM base is too, which is the real reason Hillary lost.

Taken at face value, most people would agree with both Sanders and Trump on the aforementioned statements. That, of course, is what makes these positions powerful. Populists positions, in and of themselves, are not really the problem.

The problem is when they are part of an over-arching Populist framework that paints the candidate as the one true hero of the people and EVERYONE ELSE as corrupt brokers for the elite. This is how TRUE Populists (as opposed to establishment candidates slinging Populist rhetoric) always frame their rhetoric.

And when a POPULIST candidate rides a wave of populist sentiment to office, history has shown that sometimes, truly heinous things can happen.

But that's another conversation.

originally posted by: tgidkp
a reply to: Tardacus

and the only reason you were trying to turn the word back on 'leftists' is because you perceived it as an insult.

does it bother you how pathetically predictable you are? (along with most of your hardheaded compatriots?)

I have no political affiliation and I`m not easily insulted, the only thing that really insults me is when someone tries to insult my intelligence with misguided and emotional "facts". call my mother a whore and it won`t insult me but piss on my leg and tell me it`s raining and I`ll probably hit you in the face with a board, not because you pissed on my leg but because you insulted my intelligence and think I`m dumber than you are.

even if I know that someone is stuipier than I am I would never point that out to them because I wouldn`t want to hurt their feelings.

originally posted by: Dudemo5

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Dudemo5

oh I see now, so populism isn`t a bad and may actually represent the truth.
as in, ceos and banksters run the country and the Washington establishment is a swamp that needs to be drained.

Well, to be completely clear, when I said Trump was a populist candidate, I didn't mean it in an overtly negative fashion. If you dig deep enough into Populism, you'll find some things worthy of debate, but bringing up those things was not my intent. It was merely a statement: The GOP base is hungry of POPULISTS right now. Truthfully, the DEM base is too, which is the real reason Hillary lost.

Taken at face value, most people would agree with both Sanders and Trump on the aforementioned statements. That, of course, is what makes these positions powerful. Populists positions, in and of themselves, are not really the problem.

The problem is when they are part of an over-arching Populist framework that paints the candidate as the one true hero of the people and EVERYONE ELSE as corrupt brokers for the elite. This is how TRUE Populists (as opposed to establishment candidates slinging Populist rhetoric) always frame their rhetoric.

And when a POPULIST candidate rides a wave of populist sentiment to office, history has shown that sometimes, truly heinous things can happen.

But that's another conversation.

I can completely understand that, I lean conservative in some things and liberal in other things which is why I have no political affiliation.i`ve never fully agreed with everything that the candidate I voted for has said. politicis is like flushing a toilet, every 4 years it`s always good to get the water swirling the opposite direction when you flush because it cleans the toilet better.

I stand by my belief that all the candidates are "populist" candidates,they all always claim to represent the common man.They have to do that because even they know that the majority of voters are common men and women.

one other thing, the reason I don`t care about politics anymore is because I learned long ago that politicians don`t care about what the voters think or want, they are going to do what whatever they can get away with.

Just watched the interview. You guys are reaching.

a reply to: olaru12

The GOP can't be counted on, to even be, lead. That's the problem! Them idiots stand for nothing, anymore! But saving their jobs. They are as bad as, democrats! Nothing but a bunch of dudes and dikes, riding the top rail of a fence..calling themselves Americans,.. (in a high pitch voice).Then they blame the last "leader" for their failures... Trump needs to start serving, knuckle sandwiches for brunch!.. I'll even hold the Mayo! Them boys and girls, need a wake up call. Or it's going to get ugly...right quick!

a reply to: murphy22

huh? the gop has been bitching for 8 years about obamacare and they used that 8 years to come up with.....absolutely nothing to replace obamacare....they had 8 years to come up with a replacement and they weren`t able to do it so I have NO faith that they will be able to come up with a replacement in the next 3 years for the 2020 election.

I`m no healthcare expert but I do believe that if you gave me 8 years and unlimited access to healthcare consultants I could probably come up with something to replace the existing policy that I claim to disagree with.

no offense but if any trace of obamacare is still around in 2020 and you vote for a republican that has been whining for 12 years about obamacare, then your a complete fool.

I don`t know about y`all but in my personal life I`ve never had a project or a problem that I whined about for 8 years and then when I had the chance to fix it I didn't have a plan to do it,AFTER 8 YEARS!

originally posted by: Tardacus


I stand by my belief that all the candidates are "populist" candidates,they all always claim to represent the common man.They have to do that because even they know that the majority of voters are common men and women.

Again, claiming to represent the common man is not what makes a politician Populist. It's that, PLUS claiming that the entire establishment is corrupt and therefore NOT a part of the democratic process. Per the rhetoric of the populist, the only reason he can lose is because TPTB have conspired against him because surely, if the common man had a say, he would win.

Trump is the only candidate who ran on such rhetoric, even though Sanders actually was conspired against by the DNC. So Trump was even more of a Populist than Sanders.

But none of the other politicians used any Populist rhetoric at all.

Other than that, I agree with much of what you wrote.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Willtell


Trump has already been JFK'd but in a more peaceful manner. His own daughter was his Trojan horse and the fact he made his Afghanistan speech like he had a gun in his back and never mentioned radical Islam is proof enough for me.

Congratulations! The Deep State/Globalists are still in control. Pat your selves on the backs.

Remember when we told you this was going to happen, numerous times, and the Right's response was to further insult and denigrate instead of listen to us?

Now you're trying to make excuses for it.

Un-frikkin-believable.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Dudemo5

But yeah, your sort of proving my point. This is why I don't want Trump impeached. You guys will show up in record numbers to vote some complete gomer into office again.

Bingo.

They do not seem to be concerned about voting for people who will govern with strength and intelligence. They just want to beat the Dems/Left.

It appears they approach politics like it's a sporting event.

And it's that smug, arrogant ass attitude that makes us want to be sure you don't have anything to do but sit on your hands and whine about things. Sadly, among all your participation trophies, you actually believed the lie that you are better than everyone else, and you really aren't. Shocker.

originally posted by: Dudemo5
The noose is tightening on Trump. I feel like the gears of impeachment are winding up. Unfortunately, as a moderate who hates most of Trump's policy positions, I think it's a mistake to impeach him.

For starters, Trump is like a frag grenade rolled into the GOP who is making it absolutely impossible for them to get ANYTHING done. I mean, the guy is walking, talking INEPTITUDE. Which means most of the crap he's going to do will be via executive order and will be easily undone by the next guy. Hell, he's even having a hard time getting several of his executive orders to stick... because incompetence.

I also think it's a mistake to deny the hardcore Trumpsters their day in the sun. I mean, to most American's it's like the long night of an insane man, but if you take away their guy (as ridiculous and unfit as he has proven himself to be), it will just motivate them to turn out in record numbers NEXT TIME.

I mean, seriously. Who will they vote into the Presidency next? Kid Rock? Barney the Dinosaur? I'd rather not know.

I go back and forth on impeachment. They might not do it, they might just declare him unfit, 25th him, and let Pence run things while Trump becomes a President with no power. We're not far off from that already. I think that if he's not impeached before Jan 2018, he won't be impeached at all.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Dudemo5

But yeah, your sort of proving my point. This is why I don't want Trump impeached. You guys will show up in record numbers to vote some complete gomer into office again.

Bingo.

They do not seem to be concerned about voting for people who will govern with strength and intelligence. They just want to beat the Dems/Left.

It appears they approach politics like it's a sporting event.

And it's that smug, arrogant ass attitude that makes us want to be sure you don't have anything to do but sit on your hands and whine about things. Sadly, among all your participation trophies, you actually believed the lie that you are better than everyone else, and you really aren't. Shocker.

As long as we're voting to make the other team lose, as opposed to advocate policy positions we truly believe in, we're merely insuring that the two party system will endure in perpetuity and that we're all losers.

Just because we allowed a bunch of rude jerks on the internet to radicalize us.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Willtell


Trump has already been JFK'd but in a more peaceful manner. His own daughter was his Trojan horse and the fact he made his Afghanistan speech like he had a gun in his back and never mentioned radical Islam is proof enough for me.

Congratulations! The Deep State/Globalists are still in control. Pat your selves on the backs.

The deep state has always been in control.

Not all of us are dumb enough to believe a lifelong friend of the Clinton family and a billionaire conman is the answer to taking down the illuminutty