Charlottesville: Race and Terror – VICE News Tonight on HBO

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: buster2010

They should have let the nazis have their little rally, but it looks like the counter-protesters couldn't help themselves and instigated and incited the political violence.

Sure they did people chanting for blood are always peaceful.

Words are not violence in any dimension.

No but they sure are good at pushing people into committing acts of violence.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: theantediluvian

Yes, pepper spraying someone in the face is violence. Circling people isn't. Square your circles all you want but maybe try a better example.

Generally speaking, if you encircle a group of people and then refuse to allow them to pass (which has been admitted to have been the case Friday night) you don't have the legal ground to claim you were attacked if they're trying to get past you.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Grambler


Which of those crimes listed didn't happen?

Its not that the events didn't happen. Its that the SPLC attribution to white extremists is suspect without looking in to everyone of the cases.

But lets take them at their word. 20 years of stats, and they found 74 victims.

While everyone is tragic, and does illustrate the importance of condemning white extremism, that is hardly an epidemic

And it isn't discussing white supremacists, its any extremist that happened to be white.

So Robert Dear and many other religious extremism is linked is listed.

Imagine the calls of racism if i set up a list of Islamic terror called Brown extremism.

Further more, they don't include numbers from other demographics for comparison.

So it gives the impression that somehow white extremism is a uniquely bad problem, when the truth is has actually led to very few deaths in the past 20 years.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: pthena

hey are people who call for the killing of Americans.

Devils advocate, didnt BLM do the same thing many times calling for the deaths of police officers? and wasnt that acted on SEVERAL times?

So wouldnt they be considered just as much of a threat?

I despise both the KKK and BLM groups equally.....

But it would be nice to see some consistency here.......

Of course they did that.

And imagine if a bunch of police officers or police supporters would have started attacking them.

Do you think the same people would be on here saying, "BLM had it coming, their words incited the violence"

No, I believe most of them would have made the reasonable claim that despite their vile rhetoric, they had the right to not be attacked.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

ETA: If anyone responds saying that I'm defending Nazis or anything of the sort, simply because I assert a first-amendment right in America to speak one's beliefs and ideas, you will be ignored on the basis that you are an idiot.

Of course the Nazis have a right to speak but this video clearly shows they are wanting violence. The same law applies to BLM.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

didnt BLM do the same thing many times calling for the deaths of police officers? and wasnt that acted on SEVERAL times?

I don't know. Did they?

All I know about BLM is that some of them are Black Nationalists, which means they would like their own Bantustans away from Whites. I've got no idea what percentage Black Nationalists represent within the BLM movement.

So wouldnt they be considered just as much of a threat?

The police in the video didn't seem afraid of people with BLM signs.

But it would be nice to see some consistency here.......

The small town that I grew up in had 2 black families. There was a white supremacist publishing company. One very famous White Supremacist based there (I won't list his name, to protect my own anonymity), and an armed white vigilante group operating out of the local bar.

Suffice it to say: I know one hell of a lot more about White Supremacy than I do about BLM.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: SlapMonkey

ETA: If anyone responds saying that I'm defending Nazis or anything of the sort, simply because I assert a first-amendment right in America to speak one's beliefs and ideas, you will be ignored on the basis that you are an idiot.

Of course the Nazis have a right to speak but this video clearly shows they are wanting violence. The same law applies to BLM.

Thats right. Both groups want violence.

But they still have the right to speak until they act with violence or incite it.

And by incite it I don't mean hurling offensive language or insults, I mean saying things like hit that person, or tear this place apart.

And I will guarantee you that I will be on here defending BLM or any other hate group's right to hold a rally until violence ensues.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Perfectenemy

2) Debatable. The counter-protesters apparently had no permit.

I keep seeing this brought up by people on the Right. To be fair I don't know if it's true or not. The point that I want to bring up is the fact that I keep seeing people claim is that the Nazis First Amendment rights were violated. One of the reasons they mention for this claim is that the counter-protesters were not granted permission by the government to exercise their First Amendment rights.

Seriously!? Do they not see the hypocrisy in their reasoning?

I'm neither right nor left. I'm on Trump's side and support his sane supporters and what's left of the american people who really don't care about all the other parties and groups bashing their heads in for stupid reasons. I admit i heard two different versions of the permit issue but Shamrock6 thankfully rectified my mistake. The counter-protesters never intended to stay peaceful. I already discussed this at length in a now canned thread. Antifa and BLM are just as guilty. Both sides uploaded videos depicting violence against them. That's what happens if you pit hateful groups against each other without interfering when it escalates. I condemn all the violence that occured period.

a reply to: pthena

I don't know. Did they? All I know about BLM is that some of them are Black Nationalists, which means they would like their own Bantustans away from Whites. I've got no idea what percentage Black Nationalists represent within the BLM movement.

Thats ok to not know, I will inform you, yes they did on many occasions...

The police in the video didn't seem afraid of people with BLM signs.

My question wasnt asking if the police seemed afraid of BLM or not, my question was, seeing as how their rhetoric has called for the death of Americans at many of their gatherings, and has been acted upon several times with targeted police shootings......doesnt your statement "They should be considered a threat to the country"(rough quote sorry on my phone) apply to that group as well?

Suffice it to say: I know one hell of a lot more about White Supremacy than I do about BLM.

I can understand that given where you grew up, my suggestion is then, in order to be balanced in your view, perhaps to do some research on BLM and their rhetoric and some of the fallout because of it....

Both of these groups in my opinion are driven by hate and racism......I see BLM just as hateful as the KKK, its just the opposite color......

someone actually came from canada for this thing??
why the heck does he care about a statue in a charlottesville city park???

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: theantediluvian

Yes, pepper spraying someone in the face is violence. Circling people isn't. Square your circles all you want but maybe try a better example.

Generally speaking, if you encircle a group of people and then refuse to allow them to pass (which has been admitted to have been the case Friday night) you don't have the legal ground to claim you were attacked if they're trying to get past you.

You fail to mention this statue was the destination of their rally. I suppose they should have gotten there earlier and waited there with bats and pepper-spray.

a reply to: theantediluvian

You fail to mention the statue was the destination of their rally, and in your mental playground you pretend that the people waiting there with chants, sticks and pepper-spray were not inciting violence.

a reply to: TheTory

I fail to mention it because it's irrelevant. The group that was already at the monument had the right to be there.

The white supremacists also had a right to be there.

The white supremacists did not have the right to encircle the first group and prevent them from leaving.

ETA - some of the white supremacists also had D-cell MagLite flashlights and pepper spray. Oh, and their own chants. So...guess you failed to mention that.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: TheTory

I fail to mention it because it's irrelevant. The group that was already at the monument had the right to be there.

The white supremacists also had a right to be there.

The white supremacists did not have the right to encircle the first group and preventingthem from leaving.

ETA - some of the white supremacists also had D-cell MagLite flashlights and pepper spray. Oh, and their own chants. So...guess you failed to mention that.

prevented them from leaving? They locked arms around a statue. They did not leave.

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: TheTory

I fail to mention it because it's irrelevant. The group that was already at the monument had the right to be there.

The white supremacists also had a right to be there.

The white supremacists did not have the right to encircle the first group and preventingthem from leaving.

ETA - some of the white supremacists also had D-cell MagLite flashlights and pepper spray. Oh, and their own chants. So...guess you failed to mention that.

prevented them from leaving? They locked arms around a statue. They did not leave.

Richard Spencer seems to disagree with you.

twitter.com...

The labeling is very tiredsom, and to be honest it is a huge accelerator to this long lasting fire.

All I have seen is two types of folks... One type wishes to keep America and it's history preserved... The other type wishes to erase history and change America.

I guess the posivite is that they can try to hide or erase all they want, but history will remain that, history. Un-changable.

American history, like it or not, is YOUR history, and you are only here because of it. Respect it!