Charlottesville: Race and Terror – VICE News Tonight on HBO

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TheTory


Funny thing that, that's exactly what I saw those Nazis doing! They threatened to do it in advance and they did it.
....Chasing people through the streets, surrounding people, beating them with fiery torches and bats, spraying them with mace, running them over with a car......

Wow you really went there. Of all the violent acts that involved the different parties you felt the need to mention the lunatic with the car just to prove your point. That's just pathetic and a new low even for you.

So when one is trying to make a point about using acts of violence during protest, is one not allowed to mention all acts of violence that occurred?

What a silly, silly premise.

Yeah i know morals and integrity flew right out of the window when they got the chance to justify violence against other groups. After all Nazis,WS and Trump supporters are now fair game in there mind. A lot of hate going on right now but surpisingly they come from the people who pretend to be loving,caring and peaceful. Must be opposite day.

a reply to: windword

Is it ok if I hold you to that standard moving forward?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

First, if you leave the site because of the political beliefs of some then it becomes even more of an echo chamber than it already is. The way for this country to progress is through civil discourse of which you are quite capable. Second, some people consider defending constitutional protections to be of the highest priority. This does not mean that they are pro-white supremacy. Third, if he was muslim, had been attacked by people and then counter attacked with a car it would be wrong to call him a terrorist, IMHO.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Bu bu but, they're just patriots. They're ummm, freedom of speech! Yeah our grandparents' generation fought against the actual Nazis with thousands of them getting killed and wounded by Nazis, but "Blood and soil"!

There's another thread where people are actively saying that BLM is more influential then these people. So I posted something like the first 13 points from the KKK's actual party platform to show who their policies actually aligned with. Not the perceptions and misconceptions of what the KKK stands for, but what they openly admit they stand for and the policies they openly promote. So of course the mods deleted it.

It's ok to lie about what these groups stand for because that perpetuates the myth. That's how the Confederacy (which only lasted for 4 years) is still honored 150+ years later. But once you actually show what these bigots admit that they stand for, that's too much.

Yes you looked like a fool on that thread as well.

You are claiming that because republicans want some of the things listed by the KKK, that they MUST have been influenced by the KKK.

You literally do not know what the word influence means.

Some of the KKK positions that they have supposedly influenced.

Not trading with countries that do not have environmental protections. Ending trade treaties like Nafta and the TPP. Ending the federal reserve.

Thats right, apparnetly this proves that the KKK is very influential!

Just another poster trying to make all of these poistions and all republicans as racist.

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TheTory


You have proven yourself to be no one to question my principles.

Too bad, I just did. Your notion that Nazis and KKK are undeserving of the rights of all American citizens has proven that you have no principles.

There you go again, judging me and accusing of something I didn't say.

They have their rights.

You said that the opposition should have stayed home, that they are the problem. You are the one advocating for the silencing of and blaming the opposition for confronting an evil that Americans have long declared a defeated enemy. You are advocating for Americans to do nothing as fascism marches through American towns, threatening the American ideals that patriots have laid down their lives for, so as not to hurt those Nazi snowflakes' feelings.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

Oh okay. So not going to address the point of "when talking about acts of violence you can only talk about certain acts, not all of them."

That's all you had to say, the diatribe wasn't necessary.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Is it ok if I hold you to that standard moving forward?

Yes, you can hold me the opinion that calling for the genocide of non-whites and non-white sympathizers is a clear and present danger to the American lifestyle. I guess that's a standard.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TheTory


You have proven yourself to be no one to question my principles.

Too bad, I just did. Your notion that Nazis and KKK are undeserving of the rights of all American citizens has proven that you have no principles.

There you go again, judging me and accusing of something I didn't say.

They have their rights.

You said that the opposition should have stayed home, that they are the problem. You are the one advocating for the silencing of and blaming the opposition for confronting an evil that Americans have long declared a defeated enemy. You are advocating for Americans to do nothing as fascism marches through American towns, threatening the American ideals that patriots have laid down their lives for, so as not to hurt those Nazi snowflakes' feelings.

I never said they should stay home. I said they should let the Nazis hold their little rally.

Nazis, fascists and racists have been marching through American streets for decades, with little to no effect. Now that they are persecuted, you only legitimize their causes, make them stronger, and give them a wider platform.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: shooterbrody

Is it ok if I hold you to that standard moving forward?

Yes, you can hold me the opinion that calling for the genocide of non-whites and non-white sympathizers is a clear and present danger to the American lifestyle. I guess that's a standard.

you know what
nevermind
you just are not worth engaging on this
that in no way represents what you have posted in this discussion
good day

a reply to: TheTory

I never said they should stay home. I said they should let the Nazis hold their little rally.

I don't see the difference.

Nazis, fascists and racists have been marching through American streets for decades, with little to no effect. Now that they are persecuted, you only legitimize their causes, make them stronger, and give them a wider platform.

Not like this they haven't. Not recently, anyway.

Let him leave, do you think he's gonna be missed? Like one miss's a case of explosive irritable bowl syndrome.a reply to: Nikola014

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I've been feeling the same way. I'm trying to make it to my ATS 10 year anniversary in January but if things don't change (or God forbid, get worse) before that the thread I make may just end up being my swan song.

a reply to: buster2010

Thank you for posting the video. I guess HBO shows things that MSNBC doesn't.

The last couple of minutes pretty much shows the mentality:
"I call it a victory. No one from our side died. Our side did not kill unjustly."

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Oh okay. So not going to address the point of "when talking about acts of violence you can only talk about certain acts, not all of them."

That's all you had to say, the diatribe wasn't necessary.

I felt it was unnecessary and unlike other people i value honesty above else. It's obvious that people are aiming for the defense that Nazis are no longer humans(who started to dehumanize people oh wait) and need to be exterminated. Lump in all the Trump supporters with them and voila you and others finally can justify saying and doing anything because they are all EVIL and here are no repercussions whatsoever. Well prepare yourself for dozens of threads when a Trump supporter gets killed because someone mistook the person for a Nazi. All comments that supported and tolerated that violence will be dissected to every single last word and bite them in the ass. It's called karma.

If people are killed in a riot, gang war, etc, that is murder.

One person killed in a random scenario is still murder, there could be other motives.

Two or more random people, a pattern of random killing, evidence or other admission that targets are random, then you have a terrorist.

Their goal is to make people feel unsafe wherever they are.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

i value honesty above else

Then lets be honest about what happened and not refuse to discuss all aspects of it.

The rest of what you said isn't really germane, because you're just doing that thing you whined about yesterday when you felt like people were making baseless accusations against you.

1) I don't lump all of anybody in with anybody else.
2) I've stated repeatedly that the white supremacists had the right to speak and protest. As did the counter-protesters.
3) I don't care what people write threads about. If they want to write "dozens of threads" about a Trump supporter being killed, good for them. Hopefully you'll be willing to allow them to talk about the person being killed, rather than chastising them for talking about it.
4) Okay?
5) Karma is more about what happens in this life effects what happens in the next life, rather than internet message boards.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Another great scripted event !!

Act iii, Scene iv

Another useless comment!!!

Same Member, Same BS.

a reply to: shooterbrody

SILENCING ANYONE IS UNAMERICAN.

Right. Heather Heyer has been silenced. And the White Supremacists call it victory.

a reply to: Shamrock6

The post was not directly aimed at you. Apologies if i confused you.

1) I know. It was just an observation i made reading different threads.
2) Debatable. The counter-protesters apparently had no permit.
3) I think you misunderstood that particluar part. I'm worried that tensions between ATS members will esacalate when that happens.
4) Good i guess.
5) I just use it as figure of speech. I don't necessary believe in Karma.

Thanks for your valuable input.

a reply to: buster2010

I'm in no way defending the actions and words of Unite the Right, but if you look at the video 12:45, you have a guy in a BLM shirt saying:

We told City Coucil we did not want them here; they let them come. We told the police we did not want them here; they let them come.

Look, I get it--I don't ever want them coming to my city, either, but this is not the way that the real world works. Unite the Right went through all of the appropriate channels to be permitted to hold their rally in Charlottesville--they had every right to be there, regardless of the wants of BLM or anyone else. Just wanting opposing views to be barred from being shared doesn't usurp the authority of the first amendment.

Now, I'm of the opinion, as are some others, that the way that this was allowed to go down by the police and the city was either criminally negligent, or purposefully designed to allow (and even promote) violence to occur. It's pretty damn sad to see how this was handled by authorities, and I think that as more investigations into how it was handled behind the scenes conclude, people will definitely be losing their jobs. I wouldn't even be surprised to see if there was a conspiracy surrounding this event--I'm not saying that they wanted someone to die, but I do think that they wanted to be front-page news.

But look at 19:11 (yes, I see the irony in 1911), the dude with all of the guns is a damn idiot...nobody was killed unjustly? The fact that no one on his side was killed is a win? Then he goes on to say this:

People die violent deaths all the time, right? ... The blacks are killing themselves in staggering numbers from coast to coast. We don't really want to have a part of that anymore, and so the fact that they resist us when we say, 'Hey, we want a homeland,' is not shocking to me. ... These people want violence, and the right is just meeting market demand.

Jesus Christ...yes, these guys are f**king repulsive, but other than the violence that occurred, they have their right to spout this insane jackassery all over America, to the dismay of...well, hopefully everyone. What they need to understand, though, is that we also hold the right to counter them with our first-amendment rights...and many of us own just as many guns as Captain Homeland. But what we absolutely need to demand is better preparation and planning by our city authorities when things like this take place, because this easily--EASILY--could have been prevented (the clashing of both sides and the subsequent violence and death).

So, when the guy from BLM complained that the city allowed Unite the Right to be there, that's because it's their constitutionally protected right that the city really cannot deny except in extreme circumstances. The best that we can do is counter with our protected rights as well, and raise our next generation to understand that racist hatred is a learned mentality and it's not okay.

These guys are the epitome of what my Jefferson quote below notes as "the inconveniences attending too much liberty," but I'd rather have to deal with these whackadoos than not have the first amendment at all.

ETA: If anyone responds saying that I'm defending Nazis or anything of the sort, simply because I assert a first-amendment right in America to speak one's beliefs and ideas, you will be ignored on the basis that you are an idiot.