Charlottesville VA Stuck Hosting (Arguably) Largest Hate Rally In Decades

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Today? Things are different today. You and I do not live then. Had we lived then, things might look different to us.

This is the problem with trying to judge the past through a modern lens. We aren't them. We didn't live their times or by their mores, and they don't live by ours. Trying to judge with our modern mores is a mistake and will always lead to a skewed idea of what they were doing and thought about things and will also always lead to improper judgment.

For example, given the commonality of child marriage across all cultures in his day and age, can you call Mohammad a pedophile? By our modern interpretation, sure he is, but he didn't live in our modern times, and to properly judge that, you have to judge him in context.

So ask yourself, what context you are judging in ... your own or theirs.

I'm a realist, Ketz, or I do my best to be. I live in the present.

You're desperately trying to justify dehumanization. As I said, I can't do that. I can't "sympathize" with those who can by whatever means and for whatever reason.

It was and is wrong to treat other people differently because of ANY natural characteristic. I know, full well, that you don't agree.

But, no matter how you attempt to twist it around, justify them "in context" or diminish them, crimes against humanity are wrong, period, end.

a reply to: Konduit

No you arrr not right,..starting a race warrrr, by making lousy music is not really a thing, but walking into a church filled With African American worshippers, sat with them and then turning your gun on them in an attempt to bring about a RACE WArr..is what white supramacist do, .and much more than that cowardly POS Dylan Roof have been foiled, due to incompetence.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I am not. I am saying that history is history and you cannot judge it through your modern lens but only in its context.

Do you feel as much repugnance for Italians as you do white Americans? Italians kept far more peoples oppressed and in slavery for many hundreds of years longer via the Roman Empire.

Or do you judge them through the context of their time in history?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I am not. I am saying that history is history and you cannot judge it through your modern lens but only in its context.

Do you feel as much repugnance for Italians as you do white Americans? Italians kept far more peoples oppressed and in slavery for many hundreds of years longer via the Roman Empire.

Or do you judge them through the context of their time in history?

Stop lying. You are, and you have.

I have never stated that I have repugnance for "White Americans."

Also, Italians are usually considered "White" either way. Your bias is showing again.

Tut tut.

a reply to: Gryphon66

While you're desperately casting about for justifications for slavery ... you might want to check out your Bible.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Ephesians 6:5, NIV

a reply to: Gryphon66

Ah, featherhead, you do so love pretending you know what I'm all about.

So much for you being fair-minded.

I guess you assume that because I am in this thread and I don't think the statues should come down, I must naturally be some kind of evil white supremacist. Stop with implying it and come right out and say it. It will make you feel better.

It may shock my family to know that -- the mixed race husband and kid ... but well, I'm sure you know me better than they do based on what you assume about me from your dark little mind.

a reply to: ketsuko
The difference here Ketsuko is there are ppl alive today who remember a relative born into slavery time does make a difference.

I think this thread already has the most replies of any thread in this subforum in 2017 showing how much it lives among ATS users. I'm just hoping people will come away with the right lessons from it.
Song 25 Proof of Discipleship vocals
Btw, I am 100% certain there were no witnesses of Jehovah on either side. Do you think anyone who shares your worldviews (atheists, evolutionists, agnostic ones, philosophical naturalists, Trinitarians or those that are part of Christendom, Buddhists, Hindus or those into Eastern Philosophy and so-called "New Age Philosophy", Muslims, Jews, Deists, Spinozists, the unaffiliated believers in or promoters of a variety of philosophies, etc.) or voted for the same politician as you did* might have been on either side? *: if you voted for one
Song 27 Take sides with Jehovah vocals

Do not be unwise and stubborn (goatlike) and take that as a self-righteous, 'better than thou'-type of question. It is meant to think about the cause of the behavioural patterns in humankind and those who would show up at such a rally or protest on either side. See also my signature and text under my name, it's a gradual process of development in the mind and figuratively the heart:

Song 73 Love Intensely From the Heart vocals

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Gryphon66

While you're desperately casting about for justifications for slavery ... you might want to check out your Bible.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Ephesians 6:5, NIV

Jesus taught in the context of the time, so did Paul. The context of the time was the aforementioned Roman Empire. What was very, very exceedingly common during that time? Slavery. His purpose was not to upend the established social order, but to teach people how they must be toward one another within the context of that framework.

If you know much of anything about the Bible, you know this was why the Jews rejected Him. They expected a conquering hero King like David who would free them from the Roman Empire and restore the Kingdom of Judea and that's not what they got. So they are still looking for Messiah today.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Ah, featherhead, you do so love pretending you know what I'm all about.

So much for you being fair-minded.

I guess you assume that because I am in this thread and I don't think the statues should come down, I must naturally be some kind of evil white supremacist. Stop with implying it and come right out and say it. It will make you feel better.

It may shock my family to know that -- the mixed race husband and kid ... but well, I'm sure you know me better than they do based on what you assume about me from your dark little mind.

I don't pretend to know what you're all about by any means, but I can comment on what you do and say in your posts.

Not fair minded? When I state that you do what you do and say what you say in this public forum?

/shrug

You "guess" ... so you assume? I don't assume anything. I haven't said you are anything; but I have stated that you justify and sympathize with incitement and hatred.

Your pulling out your version of "the race card" not withstanding.

a reply to: Spider879

My questioning this is that we were letting it go just two decades ago in the '70s and '80s and now it is all of a sudden an issue.

It's like being unable to read Mark Twain because his books use the colloquial language of the time and our children just can't face it, but then they go home and hear the same from their parents in their communities.

We erode learning about those times and simplify, reducing things to it was all about slavery and that was it, and suddenly, everyone hates those statues because they missed all the other context to it. Certainly slavery was a big part of it, but there is more to it.

You cannot erase the past or shame by pulling down statues and it won't make things that you don't like disappear, and in fact, not remembering risks having it all happen again.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Gryphon66

While you're desperately casting about for justifications for slavery ... you might want to check out your Bible.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Ephesians 6:5, NIV

Jesus taught in the context of the time, so did Paul. The context of the time was the aforementioned Roman Empire. What was very, very exceedingly common during that time? Slavery. His purpose was not to upend the established social order, but to teach people how they must be toward one another within the context of that framework.

If you know much of anything about the Bible, you know this was why the Jews rejected Him. They expected a conquering hero King like David who would free them from the Roman Empire and restore the Kingdom of Judea and that's not what they got. So they are still looking for Messiah today.

How typical; when the horrors of your Book are pointed out, suddenly, it's not 100% the inspired Word of God ... it's a historical document.

At least we finally agree on that one point.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
well i only read the first 20-odd pages and the last few, but i gotta say, there seem to be a lot less posters openly defending nazis than i would have expected given the tenor of these boards in the last year
so.... well done, ATS.
not the actual literal worst place on the internet. woo!

Depends on the particular thread you're looking at. The Mudpit looks like a Nazi rally. What I find most interesting about it is that there aren't a lot of surprises to be had there. Those busy equivocating the event are pretty much the ones you'd expect to be.

a reply to: Gryphon66

There it is. The scripture I heard all my childhood when I questioned slavery and racism in the 50's and 60's. Of course, they throw away all the scriptures about loving one another, mercy, kindness, charity. We mouth those words to children and then want to turn them into killers at 13. Like hanging a sub species. If you think these people are not willing to go back to that, then you are all real fools. Wait til your employers make that scripture the company motto. I just watched The Hand Maidens Tale.

a reply to: ketsuko

OK but, here is the thing, those symbols are being employed for more than just a remainder of the past, and a lesson about history, they are being used as a lighting rod to foment war or subjection, again reference Dylan Roof.

a reply to: ketsuko

Dbl post..sorry guys.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Gryphon66

There it is. The scripture I heard all my childhood when I questioned slavery and racism in the 50's and 60's. Of course, they throw away all the scriptures about loving one another, mercy, kindness, charity. We mouth those words to children and then want to turn them into killers at 13. Like hanging a sub species. If you think these people are not willing to go back to that, then you are all real fools. Wait til your employers make that scripture the company motto. I just watched The Hand Maidens Tale.

Someone commented on your family and seemed to imply that you were somehow like them. I think that's untrue and unfair.

Your point is well-taken of course.

a reply to: DerBeobachter


Man you are a stupid bigot. I know Trump supporters that work with, serve and have many friends from all over the world of many races and are doing to without the need for your sort of crap.

Again, all Trump are not White Supremacists, but apparently, nearly all White Supremacists are Trump supporters.

As stated by David Duke and others, yesterday.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm not proud of my family history. But, I am an old woman now and people should know the deep secrets of racists hearts. They hurt their own too.