Vegetarians Are Nearly Twice As Likely To Be Depressed As Meat-Eaters, Study Finds

a reply to: Thecakeisalie
Thankfully most intelligent people don't feel that intellect equals what we can kill, on your island a man and a lion would produce a lion.
www.psychologytoday.com...

This indeed appears to be the case. Among the British respondents in the National Child Development Study, those who are vegetarian at age 42 have significantly higher childhood general intelligence than those who are not vegetarian at age 42. (Childhood general intelligence was measured with 11 different cognitive tests at three ages before 16.) Vegetarians have the mean childhood IQ of 109.1 whereas meat eaters have the mean childhood IQ of 100.9. The difference is large and highly statistically significant. The relationship holds both among women and men separately. Among women, vegetarians have the mean childhood IQ of 108.0 while meat eaters have the mean childhood IQ of 100.7. Among men, vegetarians have the mean childhood IQ of 111.0 and meat eaters have the mean childhood IQ of 101.1, a 10-point difference!

A few Vegetarians
vegetarian.procon.org...

Thomas Alva Edison. Albert Einstein. Jane Goodall, PhD. Sylvester Graham. Brian Greene, PhD. Henry J. Heimlich, MD. Steve Jobs. John Harvey Kellogg, MD.

All mammals have the same love of their family and the same feelings of pain and loss.They even seek our affection whenever they have the opportunity.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

You do know that, out of your list of famous vegetarians, Einstein was only one at the very end of his life? (Within the last 2 years of his life in fact)

Source

Thomas Edison became a vegetarian when he was in his 60s.

Source

So their success or otherwise has nothing to do with being vegetarian.

Also, showing pictures of uncooked meat does nothing but make me hungry

a reply to: seasonal

If life becomes just about our taste buds and what we eat it is worthless. If it is about extending our lives a few years at the expense of other lives it becomes worthless. There are options besides vegetarianism to stop the misery we are creating'
NOTHING TASTES THAT GOOD!

Factory farming is hideously cruel people eat tumors and pus filled sores besides drugs and hormones. Tumors eaten may actually cause cancer in people.

There is zero difference between one mammal and another yet many hate what China does with their dog eating festival.
The killing is done the same way full of pain and fear.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: SeaWorthy

You do know that, out of your list of famous vegetarians, Einstein was only one at the very end of his life? (Within the last 2 years of his life in fact)

Source

Thomas Edison became a vegetarian when he was in his 60s.

Source

So their success or otherwise has nothing to do with being vegetarian.

Also, showing pictures of uncooked meat does nothing but make me hungry

So they became smarter as they age. Not saying their success was because of not eating animals. I can see a much of your life must revolve around food.

A few examples:

In his later years, Tesla became a vegetarian. ... Tesla argued that it is wrong to eat uneconomic meat when large numbers of people are starving; he also believed that plant food was "superior to it [meat] in regard to both mechanical and mental performance." He also argued that animal slaughter was "wanton and cruel".

Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. - Albert Einstein

Thomas Edison, considered one of the greatest inventors in history. He wrote: “[Vegetarianism has a] powerful influence upon the mind and its action, as well as upon the health and vigor of the body. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.”

Leonardo Da Vinci, physicist and artist who made important discoveries in hydraulics, optics, and mechanics. He was so fervent about vegetarianism, he would buy caged chickens and set them free.

Srinivasa Ramanujan, one of the greatest mathematicians of the past 1,000 years.

Edward Witten, viewed by many as Einstein’s successor, best known as the world’s foremost string theorist and mathematician.

Greene answers some other questions on the subject on this website.

Brian Greene, Witten’s foremost protégé (he was on The Colbert Report last week). He refuted Einstein’s theory that space can stretch but not tear, and by age nine, could multiply thirty-digit numbers in his head. In an interview on science, morality, and vegetarianism for The Supreme Master Ching Hai News, Greene stated:
Q: What inspired you to become a vegetarian?

G: Quite literally, it was a dish—spare ribs—that my mother cooked when I was nine years old. The ribs made the connection between the meat and the animal from which it came direct; I was horrified and declared I’d never eat meat again. And I never have. Going vegan happened later. I visited an animal rescue farm in upstate New York and learned much about the dairy industry which was so disturbing that I could not continue to support it. Within days I gave up all dairy.

Alan Calverd, UK physicist who recently made headlines with the following statement about global warming and the vegetarian lifestyle: “Adopting a vegetarian diet would do more for the environment than burning less oil and gas.”

www.elephantjournal.com...

a reply to: SeaWorthy

So now you're saying it's smarter to be a vegetarian?

Let me guess. You're a vegetarian.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: SeaWorthy

So now you're saying it's smarter to be a vegetarian?

Let me guess. You're a vegetarian.

Yes, I am, I think it is probably the smartest thing about me.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: SeaWorthy

So now you're saying it's smarter to be a vegetarian?

Let me guess. You're a vegetarian.

Yes, I am, I think it is probably the smartest thing about me.

Of course. The religion of vegetarianism.

Stop trying to make out it's something other than a personal choice.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: SeaWorthy

So now you're saying it's smarter to be a vegetarian?

Let me guess. You're a vegetarian.

Yes, I am, I think it is probably the smartest thing about me.

Of course. The religion of vegetarianism.

Stop trying to make out it's something other than a personal choice.

Not sure you could call it a religion but a belief that it betters us and the world so pretty close.
I don't judge people who don't choose to change I simply wish everyone would look into the whole picture before deciding one way or another.

It is a personal choice that for me came about when I became more open to looking deeply into the subject. Not an easy thing to do for me anyway. I am sure I used to feel like most people here. I learned a visitor was vegetarian and I felt discomfort. When the food they chose was suggested I felt uncomfortable.

I learned that I can affect a lot of lives with my move to change. I thought it would be very difficult but it turned out not to be, then again my whole Family was never big meat eaters anyway.
I do like Brian Greene's answers to the questions.
www.elephantjournal.com...

Q: Why do you think so many of the greatest geniuses have been vegetarian?

G: From my limited experience, vegetarians typically are people who are willing to challenge the usual, accepted order of things. Moreover, they’re often people willing to sacrifice their own pleasures in pursuit of what they believe is right. These same qualities are often what’s needed to make great breakthroughs in the arts and sciences.

Q: Why do you think other scientists are still not vegetarian?
G: I would ask, more generally, why the vast majority of people are not vegetarian. I think the answer is that most people don’t question the practice of eating meat since they always have. Many of these people care about animals and the environment, some deeply. But for some reason—force of habit, cultural norms, resistance to change—there is a fundamental disconnect whereby these feelings don’t translate into changes of behavior.

Q: What inspired you to become a vegetarian?
G: Quite literally, it was a dish—spare ribs—that my mother cooked when I was nine years old. The ribs made the connection between the meat and the animal from which it came direct; I was horrified and declared I’d never eat meat again. And I never have. Going vegan happened later. I visited an animal rescue farm in upstate New York and learned much about the dairy industry which was so disturbing that I could not continue to support it. Within days I gave up all dairy.

a reply to: seasonal

How can we be 'depressed' for not eating meat when... we are made of meat?

Oh, at the bottom it says the 'study' was brought to you by the Beef Growers association. (sarc off)

I love meat. Like REALLY love meat. But i also love animals. I did some research and decided to go Vegan just over a year ago. You know what? I don't miss meat AT ALL. The flavours you usually associate with meat, i have found, are herbs, spices and vegetable derivatives.

Now, if you think of a vegetarian or vegan diet as solely salads and such, then yeah, it's horrendously boring, and would make anyone depressed, but it doesn't have to be that way; there are amazing meat analogues out there, loads of dishes that are naturally animal free (a lot of South Indian cuisine for example)

I think the problem is; the big meat and dairy lobbies run smear campaigns against vegan/vegetarian diets (we already know they pump billions into various medical and educational channels, to further push how 'healthy' products are)

My advice? Before blindly attacking vegetarianism / veganism as wrong or stupid or whatnot, try ONE meal without meat. make it a good one. Not a limp salad or some plain rice, but something good! Try a vegan burger, with vegan mozzarella and the whole works on there, try a seitan steak, try southern fried style seitan. see how good it tastes, if you like it, eat more of it, if you don't, at least you tried.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Yeah i'd eat everyone of those animals if I was starving in the desert. What would a camel eat? but of course you could ask your friend Dr Kellogg, the staunch Christian who invented Corn Flakes in an insane attempt to curb libido.

a reply to: NeonRadish

I love meat. Like REALLY love meat. But i also love animals. I did some research and decided to go Vegan just over a year ago. You know what? I don't miss meat AT ALL. The flavours you usually associate with meat, i have found, are herbs, spices and vegetable derivatives.

Same here although we still eat pasture range eggs, having visited and seen the chickens living quarters. Goal Vegan still.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: NeonRadish

I love meat. Like REALLY love meat. But i also love animals. I did some research and decided to go Vegan just over a year ago. You know what? I don't miss meat AT ALL. The flavours you usually associate with meat, i have found, are herbs, spices and vegetable derivatives.

Same here although we still eat pasture range eggs, having visited and seen the chickens living quarters. Goal Vegan still.

Eating eggs means you are not actually a Vegan, so that brings up an interesting question from how you worded that? "Goal Vegan still."

Thank you for not stooping to the level of posting pictures of dogs being - Oops, my bad.

I'm actually on your side in cases where animals are being abused. Being raised around farms and ranches though, I've never actually seen that in person. Livestock are pampered and carefully cared for. Dairy cows for instance live very good lives, far better than any bovine in the wild would. What you would consider pasture raised is the norm. Most farmers and ranchers would get very, very angry if they noticed a neighbor abusing their animals.

Hunters are probably the most active in protecting the game they hunt. Poachers, trophy hunters and the like are hated among hunters. Making sure the laws are followed to make sure the animal numbers remain viable is a priority with them.

I've seen some very, very stupid things done by activists that killed or harmed wild game often. Most activists I've met are functionally illiterate on the topics they protest.

In Idaho I've seen an offshoot of the Sierra Club file suit to stop hunts that would have saved many animals. During one harsh winter we saw a 90% mortality rate and the survivors in horrible health in deer herds due to overpopulation and lack of food, when if they would have not stopped the permits from being given out, most of the herds could have survived and been healthy.

In Yellowstone Park, another one of Sierra Clubs cover groups have stopped the government hunters from controlling bison populations for decades. The end result is most of the elk are gone due to competition for feed and the bison are not even native to that area. Historically they only passed through on occasion and now they are contained and overpopulating leaving not enough for the animals who should be there in the first place.

Activist mean well, but they clearly do more harm than good. They seem to mostly be young people, who were set on their path by activist teachers whose idea of communing with nature is a state of the art tent, with a nice little German camping stove and a bottle of wine with their Tofu, or destroying watershed with their mountain bicycles.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Eating eggs means you are not actually a Vegan

No, I have never claimed to be vegan, but I know many birds even called pasture and cage free raised are still very abused. I would like to stop being a part of the process.
You and I agree on many things it seems. I raised my own animals when I ate them. I feel if someone is going to take a life they should be aware of the creature and how it lived and how it suffered how it was killed. Most dairy cows like all animals now are in pain and severely mistreated, they are full of drugs too. The days of Family farms are in the past.
Sorry about the Pups pictures but really people need to understand, there is not an animal out there who do not come to see you as a Friend when you give food and affection, it is all the same dog or cow, pig or chicken. Friend comes with food one day and animal runs loving to him waiting for kind words and a scratch behind the ear...not this time

People need to know "juice" is body fluid and blood. It is not wrong to want people to be aware of what they are a part of. Some activist is just trying to get people to do that. Some clearly have a passion for the creatures that most would feel if it were dogs and cats.

a reply to: NeonRadish

When I first went vegetarian, I tried to stick to the stereotypical depiction of it. I ate a salad everyday, started drinking teas or just water, strictly ate fruits as snacks, etc. That lasted for about a week before I got sick of it (and realized my calorie intake had plummeted to dangerous levels).

Then I started getting a lot of the vegetarian & vegan certified meals at stores. I mean the various meat substitutes; the flax seed breaded, broccoli & mushroom topped, fetta cheese "pizzas", etc. I quickly concluded that major companies were intentionally making their veggie-approved meals taste like twigs & dirt in order to get curious consumers to go back to their cash cow products. (another amazing pun, muahahaha!)

Then something clicked for me which you touched on: going vegetarian simply means I can eat everything on the planet except meat/flesh. I started breaking foods down into different categories such as snacks, desserts, meals, etc and realized that I could still eat almost everything I was originally eating. I could still eat my pies, honey roasted peanuts, white cheddar popcorn, cookies, chocolates, etc, as well as my pancakes, hash browns, french fries, etc. I've always loved "soul food" like pinto beans, rice, corn, cornbread, greens, steamed carrots, sweet potatoes, etc, so none of that was affected either. In other words, I was saved! lol

I took the "everything but meat/flesh" idea even further by realizing that some entire cuisines already have vegetarian alternatives, like Italian foods, Indian foods, etc. I then stoked the flames even more by starting a quest to try every single fruit on the planet (which I don't think I'll ever reach but that makes the journey fun). My Mom and older brother started trying every "exotic" vegetable, root, tuber they could find, which I also begrudgingly started doing (I say begrudgingly because some vegetables piss me off).

These quests for new non-meat foods made me realize just how much of a bubble I'd lived in. I'm constantly revamping my palate & to this day, I go to a lot of international markets just to see what unfamiliar fruits, veggies, and roots I can find. Half of my urban garden is dedicated to my attempts to grow the variations that pique my curiosity.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Blaine91555
Most dairy cows like all animals now are in pain and severely mistreated, they are full of drugs too. The days of Family farms are in the past.

Have you actually ever been around one of the largest dairy farms? Don't base your judgement on the video's and photo's we all know have been passed around pretending that the rare cases of abuse are the norm. They are not. Ends justifies the means leads to a lot of falsehoods and harms innocent people.

I have a cousin who spent his whole adult life driving truck for a massive dairy farm operation in California, one of the largest on the planet. He ran loads of green feed at night to get them to the cows early so they the feed would be fresh and moist. You see dairy cows production depends a lot on them being content, well cared for and living well. The difference in production is so large, that only a total idiot headed for bankruptcy would abuse a hair on a cows head.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that even on the largest dairy farms, some supporting dozens of families and hundreds of workers, dairy cows are not treated very, very well. It would be very dumb to not want maximum production, unless you are saying they are so stupid they don't want to make money? I sense some propaganda here. It probably did not originate with you, but propaganda all the same.

a reply to: Blaine91555

There certainly are some ugly videos out there.

Do they take the cows calfs from them or let their Mother feed them? Do their babies get carted away for veal?
Do the live any kind of natural cow life? Do they have to remain bulging with milk and painfully milked their whole life?
I have experience but not with the large places that are the norm now. SWmall farms have been driven out everyone agrees on that.

Huge amount of disease
Diseases of Bovine Teats and Skin
www.merckvetmanual.com...

There are some things modern medicine does not yet have all figured out, and udder sores certainly seem to be one of those issues. The Merck Veterinarian Manual states: “Udder Sores are scientifically known as Necrotic Dermatitis.” The manual defines udders sores as “Moist, foul-smelling, necrotic lesions [defined as dead skin tissue] may be observed in areas of tightly adjacent skin of some animals. In heifers, the lateral aspect of the udder [to the sides] and medial aspect of the thigh are often involved. In this area, the udder is pressed tightly against the leg, resulting in chafing, dermatitis, and necrosis [death of tissue

dairystar.com...

It is not unusual to find dairy herds in which 40 to 50 percent or more of lactating cows have two or more quarters infected with Staph.
milkquality.wisc.edu/wp-content/.../09/mastitis-control-program_staph.-aureaus.pdf

not uncommon to find mastitis in 50 to 75 percent of the cows.

openprairie.sdstate.edu...

Q. How seriously is production affected by mastitis? A. Conservative estimates place national milk losses above 20 per cent. Exact figures are not available because of the complexity of the problem. In the individual cow, production may be reduced or completely lost temporarily or permanently in one or more quarters.

ir.library.oregonstate.edu...;jsessionid=03E59FCEBAFC4656E176DB7738E58D12?sequence=1

a reply to: SeaWorthy

We are going in a circle here, so I'll leave it we will never agree since Livestock is well, livestock and I know for a fact that abuse of animals is a very rare thing and not the norm. Only well cared for livestock leads to good profits and I'm viewing these things as someone who has seen it firsthand.

Yes, there are idiots in any profession, but in farming and ranching they fail. Animals are so valuable to not care for them and their health is a one way trip to the poor house. I condemn the idiots who abuse animals right along with you and nearly all farmers and ranchers would do the same. Painting them with a broad activists brush is not reasonable in any sense of the word.

Trying to get people to stop eating their natural diets is a loosing battle I'm afraid.

I'm as depressed by this as the Vegans apparently are about life in general Just kidding of course.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I know for a fact that abuse of animals is a very rare thing and not the norm.

I wish I believed this too. I would be happier by far.

Animals are so valuable to not care for them and their health is a one way trip to the poor house.

I hope you read some of the links, they try to give good health but fail 50% of the time because a mother lactating her whole life is simply not natural. They don't try to make the animals live happily, that is not what profit demands.

As far as changing I now know very few people who are not vegan or vegetarian it seems more people do care about letting other creatures have a happy life and we can all live without blood and gore. plus the whole busness with illness, hormons and drugs is getting way too much for many others.

I am grateful you took the time to discuss.

a reply to: SeaWorthy



I've enjoyed it and thanks for the interesting conversation. I will take a look at your linked info and give it serious consideration.

Thanks so much for the calm debate.