Absolute Proof Jesus Christ is God

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

My fallacious argument being the origin of words?

I'm sorry you're so angry that you can't understand information posted.

But keep on following what Paul says like a good little Christian.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Me angry? naaa, and yes your argument is fallacious because you tried to claim I was wrong yet corroborated my argument without even understanding what you did...

Perhaps you should continue making rants about your day going shopping etc.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yes, very angry. So angry you can't comprehend simple origins of words.

Most of you so called Christians don't follow what Jesus supposedly taugh. You make excuses and say it's not relevant to you. Instead, you follow Paul.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse


You are entitled to your opinion, not your own facts, and your opinions are not facts. And, your Wikipedia article is biased and unproven. No, Wikipedia isn't the upstanding conveyor of facts, it's articles are created and updated by ordinary people.

In fact that link you gave doesn't seem to come from any real scholars. The author of that website is called Allan Cronshaw, and can't find any reliable source that would have information about who he is, all i could find were his own website, facebook, and twitter. But again, no information at all corroborates that this man is a real scholar.

I provided you a link summing up a litany of history that is easy to understand. I can't lead you by your nose to read The White Goddess, by Graves, or the Golden Bough, by Frazer, or Madam Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled Trilogy, for example. But, you've probably never heard of them either!

You have no real interest in understanding the origins of "Christ" or your Pagan religion called Christianity, unless it confirms your brainwashed biased mind. You prefer your pious forgeries, like Wikipedia article. You're angry that your comfortable set of superstitions are being challenged, and you're ignorantly lashing out.

It's factual that there were a myriad of Christ cults before and after the advent of Jesus of Nazareth, originating from Ptolemy's edicts and efforts to blend all the major religions in the area into one cohesive expression of divinity, around 200 AD. Ever since, there have been people worshipping and claiming to be "Christs". Some were Jewish zealots, claiming to be the Messiah, some were initiates of the Egyptian and Greek mystery schools.

And, that's what Jesus Christ is. He's a little bit Jewish, and a little bit Egyptian and a lot of Greek! A man for all seasons!

It's also factual that the oldest documents that we have of Sententious and Tacitus talking about the Roman rioters that Nero dealt with so cruelly, were followers of one "Chrestus", not Christus or Christos. At any rate, he never mentions Jesus of Nazareth, so his existence is not proven by this account. It's ridiculous to assume it was because "Christians" belief that Jesus' resurrection is the miraculous sign from God that Makes Jesus of the Nazareth "The Christ". Why would they riot on Rome for giving them their "Christ"? It makes no sense.

Jesus of Nazareth, if he existed, was only one of many, many people who was claimed to be a "Christ". Knowing this, that were many Christs walking around, and many Christ cults, Tacitus and Sententious do not provide us with any proof that Jesus of Nazareth really existed.

originally posted by: windword
Jesus of Nazareth, if he existed, was only one of many, many people who was claimed to be a "Christ". Knowing this, that were many Christs walking around, and many Christ cults, Tacitus and Sententious do not provide us with any proof that Jesus of Nazareth really existed.

Reminds me of the scene in American Gods where there's twenty Jesus's walking around Ostara's mansion. One flavor for each type of belief.

a reply to: whereislogic

OK, moving on to Magic The Gathering.. That distinction, Son of man, is still a claim of deity. No, it is a phrase made clear that he is the divine son of God made in the flesh as son of man, so that He would know our human experience more closely (or something along those lines). If Jesus did not claim deity, then there would be no need for the distinction "son of man", which as we know of the Trinity was Jesus's function. That was His role.

Or, should we start referring to everyone alive as son of man?

a reply to: windword

Really? Are you doing that condescending sigh because I have the audacity to agree with academia at large including atheist and agnostic researchers? OK.

And I see what you're saying, but Tacitus didn't talk about them. I don't know man, I'm at a loss for debate on this subject now.

a reply to: filthyphilanthropist


LOL, No, the "sigh" was just part of the post, the entirety of which I reposted. The sigh was specifically for ElectricUniverse.

And I see what you're saying, but Tacitus didn't talk about them.

What "them"? Tacitus was retelling an historic event, in which there were so called "Christians" rioting in the street over the cruel death of their leader. I contend those rioters were upset over the "Samarian Massacre" that got Pilate recalled to Rome. He never answered for the crimes or stood trial because Vitellius died while he was enroute. Ergo, riots in the streets.
That's just my opinion, man.

Either way, his testimony doesn't prove or disprove the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: windword

Are you really that obtuse?... How many Christs started a religion NAME CHRISTIANITY and was condemned to the worst possible sentence under Pontius Pilate?...

The only ones getting their panties in a bunch are people like you who are too scared to admit you are wrong and that there is actual evidence which contradicts your "beliefs"

There were many sects of early Christianity that were eventually ended by bishops who were seeking power and control over the people.
The first sect was the Marcionites which believed Jesus was the son of God but Jesus claimed the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel were false teachings.

Even today there are still differences between some bibles like Cor 3 is included in some european bibles.
The Etheopian canon contains some different scripture as well.

Anyway Christ did not start a religion called Christianity, the first followers called themselves Brothers of the Lord.

But we know for sure that there were other Jesus characters in Jewish angelology like Jesus of Barabus and a Jesus who dies and is resurrected in the lower heavens.
Christianity is also the last of the savor religions. The savior of sins who dies and comes back to life for personal sin forgiving was a model that was spreading around in Asia, Egypt, Middle East, even Ireland each with it's own version like Isis or Zorastrianism.
Christianity was the Jewish version of the savior diety religion.

You would have to listen to a Biblical historian like PHD Richard Carrier to get deeper into specifics:

www.youtube.com...


Right now scholarship considers Jesus to have been just a man and a teacher all the supernatural stories are myth and taken from other sources.
The mythicist theory that Jesus never even existed is considered crank by mainstream scholarship. This is largely because of a popular book promoting the theory that claims Cesar invented Jesus and is known to have many historical mistakes.

Richard Carrier is the first PHD to do a 6 year research project on the historicity of Jesus and he is the first PHD to support the mythicist theory. All his debates are online and his research culminates in a book on the historicity of Jesus.

I've seen all his debates against scholars and he has a solid case. He also talks about the fact that mainstream historians who go against the grain will often find their careers ending short.

The thread would had been a lot better if it was just your encounter with Jesus. Would you mind going into better detail of that? What was said, what was life like at time, did change you, how? How about the details..

Athiest who deny Jesus was a man is all out ignorant in my book. Those claim he is just a man is even more ignorant. Their proofs are false. Well over mountains of evidence to prove this. People who come up with ignorant ideas should have their barrons checked. Not only is Jesus in Holy Bible, he is in Talmud as well clearly depicted as a sorcerer or magician. The Jews didn't have their Talmud corrupted by Caesar. Josephus mentions Jesus but goes into great detail of James the Church Elder as documented by Jews and Essenes in Dead Sea and eventually Rome. It wouldn't of even been Ceaser, it would of been Emperor Constantine who persecuted teachings of any thing not approved by him. Rome never quite feel to Christianity until 400 years after Jesus. They ruined it at the council of laodicea and Rome fell 100 years later. Go figure, right?

Athiest are really bad at being hypocritical, but in fairness so do Christians. Mostly due to pagan conversion of our Judaic roots due to antisemitism brought on by the Romans. Fact is, way more evidence than non. They just choose to reject it, but they reject Christ too, so why would they?

It's pointless to argue people who believe we came from rocks that came from nothing and people 1000s years ago who understand spirit before science can prove it was merely cave men who knew of dinosaurs before we ever did. and giants. and was unintelligent. But let's be even more skeptical of the obvious proof the Bible holds time and time again. I'm not going to say your wrong, but understand your ideas are equally far fetched. Fact it is being taught despite countless archeological finds disproving it and it's still rolling on as 100% fact is ridiculous.

Athiest scientists have to literally play God to understand anything they claim disproves him. Like the big bang. Claim they can reenact the big bang while playing God, splicing a God Particle, without basic understanding that they had to create all kinda stuff just to do it and have no idea how any of it can come into play by chance. Or how they play God and splice God Genome to clone animals and never stop to consider who or what actually did that first no matter Earths age.

The idea that we are so advanced from Animals is remarkable. The human brain alone is very powerful. The God Gland in our minds is one of our biggest mysteries. The idea that spirital energy can die out or flow in everlasting energy is visible today. If we are spirits, and God is the Lord of Spirits, wouldn't our souls eventually become one with power that drives us and created us? If our spirits caused intelligence in this realm, why wouldn't there be intelligence to spiritual light that created us. The Bible teaches how to lift spirits and save it from dying out. Without the Bible, we drift to become more and more souless. That's the depiction of hell yes? eternal dwelling into a pit of nothing and sorrow.. dying a spirital death or being rejoined with great everlasting life force that had perfectly coasted us a long the entire time. If you're content to man ruling man with no God or boundaries, or living in a spec of time to become a dash between two dates, go for it. But please stop the rhetoric. There is no proof that Jesus didn't exist, go understand your own theory before thumping on someone else because evolution and science has just as many holes as any other Theology.

Julius Ceaser... lmao. "Argh! E'tu Iesus?"

How in the world would anyone pull that off? You think people wouldn't try that crap today with all the advanced technology we have? Sheesh talk about a wild conspiracy! How did the Romans influence the Ethiopians, Persians, or Hindus, or Buddhist, and the Jews to stand and die for a false average joe. Oh boy, or the Jews! You think they would speak about Jesus as fake messiah but wouldn't document Romans mything a lie about a man in Jerusalem. Get real, dude. Of course that guy got laughed at by archeologist.. because too busy finding mass Christian grave sites in Isreal to take him seriously.

a reply to: Iostsheep

The God Gland in our minds is one of our biggest mysteries.

yes it sure is since you are the only person that knows of it.

The Bible teaches how to lift spirits and save it from dying out. Without the Bible, we drift to become more and more souless.

and you say someone saying Jesus was a man is ignorant,

This quoted above is just pure nonsense.

But you a free to believe in whatever you like.

There is no proof that Jesus didn't exist, go understand your own theory before thumping on someone else because evolution and science has just as many holes as any other Theology.

Yes, because when one tries to prove something they cannot prove something doesn't exist.

Pineal gland is a very reknown by many as the third eye and key it to mysteries of the super natural and the spiritual and possibly mind control.

Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved

Matthew 6:22
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

You are arguing that being meek, humble, and charitable does not strengthen spirits? How so? I feel overcome by forces unknown when charitable, my body can barely hold it all in. When it is the apposite I feel disconnected to that. Empty and hollow. The Bible gives you that.

I read somewhere an Emperor of China claimed all of the West Sucess is due to its religion. The armies fight with such chivalry and charisma and spirit of God it's hard to overcome it on the battlefields. The strong morals and codes and conduct pushes the line of evil and immoral which is why imperialism or fascists regimes don't hold here. It help pushed for higher levels of science and innovation for a total pursuit to understand God better. It built empires after empires of freedom and happiness. He is right. Because Christian Fundamental America is way better and more productive than Athiest Fundamental Communism. Anywhere Christianity thrives, the entire empire thrived.

Christianity here keeps things in check, like GMOs, vaccinations, slavery, corrupt leaders, world control. If it isn't Christian, it hasn't really produced any good fruit in society. It keeps man from doing whatever he feels like to you.

and Yes, I believe you can't disprove Jesus. I think it is a waste of time to even try. You should use all your brains energy to correct and polish and fully understand what you believe. Not setting out to disprove something you do not believe. Because how can you understand what you can't believe? How do you know it all to disprove it? Just focus on building your own understanding and let that be enough. Most who "set out to disprove..." end up in failure because they are pursuing something they don't believe or understand fully.

How on Earth can you have a full understanding in Evolution, if you believe in creation? Why understand what you dont believe in just to disprove it. Spend time on what you believe in and proving that.

In my opinion, referring either Jesus as a teacher or not existence is silly. Just because you find Gnostic writings, don't make Jesus a Gnostic. Just because Ebionites and Marcionist existed 100-200 years after Jesus doesn't prove anything. It proves they are heretics. It didn't thrive then it doesn't thrive now. It's bringing a tiny spec of evidence against thousands and saying everything else has just gotten wrong for last 2000+ years. Romans for most part had nothing to do with Christianity, their biggest involvement was Constantine who formed the holy bible we know today. Ironically Rome fell 100 years later to Germany.

Constantine and other groups are proven to not have corrupted documents of Qumran and in Ethiopia, they seem well intuned to Jesus as Son of Man, God's Promise, The Messiah. It does not stack up and that's why scholars and archeologist laugh because scholars and archeologist know better.

Some arguments have legs. Such as Romans trying to steal Christian theology to corrupt it, or Paul may have been a imposter or false Apostle, is it faith alone or works and faith, is it saturday sabbath or sunday sabbath..but argument of him being a lie or ungodly is beating drums on a dead horse because all you gotta do is read all the over mountains of evidence that basically rule that theory out. It's way too many religions, way too many people, way too many countries, for it to be some devilish plot by some Ceaser.

a reply to: Iostsheep

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved

LOL......You think Jacob called that place "Penial" because he was naming it after the Pineal Gland?

By the way, all mammals have Pineal Glands. Are they all destined for divinity?

originally posted by: Iostsheep
Christianity here keeps things in check, like GMOs, vaccinations, slavery, corrupt leaders, world control. If it isn't Christian, it hasn't really produced any good fruit in society. It keeps man from doing whatever he feels like to you.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news buckaroo, but we had just a touch of slavery here in the gold old United States of America at one time by nice Christian folk just trying to make a buck. The rest of your stuff made me laugh as well but this was the most egregious of them.

a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

Buzzywigs is that you?

A man with an Experience beats a man without one.

I only took a leap of faith and Jesus did the rest.

originally posted by: Iostsheep
The thread would had been a lot better if it was just your encounter with Jesus. Would you mind going into better detail of that? What was said, what was life like at time, did change you, how? How about the details..

Athiest who deny Jesus was a man is all out ignorant in my book. Those claim he is just a man is even more ignorant. Their proofs are false. Well over mountains of evidence to prove this. People who come up with ignorant ideas should have their barrons checked. Not only is Jesus in Holy Bible, he is in Talmud as well clearly depicted as a sorcerer or magician. The Jews didn't have their Talmud corrupted by Caesar. Josephus mentions Jesus but goes into great detail of James the Church Elder as documented by Jews and Essenes in Dead Sea and eventually Rome. It wouldn't of even been Ceaser, it would of been Emperor Constantine who persecuted teachings of any thing not approved by him. Rome never quite feel to Christianity until 400 years after Jesus. They ruined it at the council of laodicea and Rome fell 100 years later. Go figure, right?

It's not Atheists who say Jesus was just a man that has any authority, it's the entire field of bible historians.
Papers accepted by peer reviewed process are the only papers that contribute to the field, no crank authors or non-historians.
Moses is widely considered mythology by scholarship as well as the patriarchs and to say you disagree because of faith is fine but the ignorance is on your side.

If I was saying germs don't exist you would refer me to some work by PHD biologists. If I still didn't accept that I would just mire in ignorance, end of story. It's the same for historical literature. The entire process of getting a PHD is learning how to corroborate and make sure your sources are accurate.

The idea that we are so advanced from Animals is remarkable. The human brain alone is very powerful. The God Gland in our minds is one of our biggest mysteries. The idea that spirital energy can die out or flow in everlasting energy is visible today. If we are spirits, and God is the Lord of Spirits, wouldn't our souls eventually become one with power that drives us and created us? If our spirits caused intelligence in this realm, why wouldn't there be intelligence to spiritual light that created us. The Bible teaches how to lift spirits and save it from dying out. Without the Bible, we drift to become more and more souless. That's the depiction of hell yes? eternal dwelling into a pit of nothing and sorrow.. dying a spirital death or being rejoined with great everlasting life force that had perfectly coasted us a long the entire time. If you're content to man ruling man with no God or boundaries, or living in a spec of time to become a dash between two dates, go for it. But please stop the rhetoric. There is no proof that Jesus didn't exist, go understand your own theory before thumping on someone else because evolution and science has just as many holes as any other Theology.

We are not so advanced from animals in the way you mean. We went through many many steps from early tree apes to hominids that walked just a little. Dozens and dozens of species slowly eating more protein to increase brain size, slowly losing body hair because a different cooling system slowly emerges (sweating). Intelligence also slowly emerged, some late hominids wore clothes and had basic language and basic tools and eventually after millions of years, a time span we cannot comprehend, Homo Sapien emerged.

So it was a slow process. The intermediate species have died out. Yes some of the later and smarter Hominids probably figured out weapons and eventually killed off any competing Hominids. Which still happens today.


The idea that we need biblical morality is strange. There are millions of Buddhist and other religious/philosophy followers in the world who have never known any Christian teachings yet have more successful societies than we do?


Also, yes, it's easy to disprove Jesus. You wouldn't likely sit through any lectures or debates or read the proper literature but Jesus has been debunked.

I respect Doug Hamp as a very knowledgeable Christian scholar who debates for literal Christianity.
If you can challenge a guy like this then you're doing very well.
Richard Carrier actually embarrass him several times leaving Doug speechless and requesting to "move on to another subject".


Once Carrier's work is absorbed by the field and accepted the position will officially be Christianity is mythology same as Greek and Roman religions.

originally posted by: Iostsheep

Christianity here keeps things in check, like GMOs, vaccinations, slavery, corrupt leaders, world control. If it isn't Christian, it hasn't really produced any good fruit in society. It keeps man from doing whatever he feels like to you.

It really doesn't. The state and Federal laws do that as well as a basic humanistic philosophy that most people follow.
It feels good to help people and to contribute to society. Not because some sky god is watching and keeping score.
Christianity had it's chance with morality, the churches were corrupt and felt justified in murdering and stealing by their religious intolerance.
Christian morality allows any nation to war with a non-believer nation and will allow for murder and genocide.

America is not really a Christian nation anymore, the poll numbers are up but that's because a large percent of people who list themselves as christian are saying that because that is how they were raised. If asked directly many will say they do not believe it to be an actual true story and do not believe in personal savior demigods.

Some are agnostic - believe there may be some afterlife but religions are just man-made myths trying to make models people could follow in ancient times. Or true agnostic - there is a greater truth out there but it cannot be known by humans. Some follow different spiritual paths that they resonate with and some simply don't believe any of it but do not want to be known as an atheist for different reasons.


This is the majority in the NorthEast US, maybe it's different in the south?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ElectricUniverse


You are entitled to your opinion, not your own facts, and your opinions are not facts. And, your Wikipedia article is biased and unproven. No, Wikipedia isn't the upstanding conveyor of facts, it's articles are created and updated by ordinary people.
...

LOL it was you who posted false opinion as facts. i asked for reliable sources to this claim of yours, and those of the man of the website you linked to. You haven't provided any evidence, so it is clear you could not admit to being wrong so instead you mirror your own faults on me...

Be a man/woman/it/Sheit or whatever you want to call yourself and admit when you are wrong...

originally posted by: windword


What "them"? Tacitus was retelling an historic event, in which there were so called "Christians" rioting in the street over the cruel death of their leader. I contend those rioters were upset over the "Samarian Massacre" that got Pilate recalled to Rome. He never answered for the crimes or stood trial because Vitellius died while he was enroute. Ergo, riots in the streets.
That's just my opinion, man.

Either way, his testimony doesn't prove or disprove the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

You want to twist historical evidence simply because in your mind you can't accept that Jesus Christ did exist. Were you there to claim what Tacitus mentions is false?... I am pretty certain you weren't, so Tacitus's account, as well as those of other pagan, Jewish and Christian historians is the truth and not what you want to claim.